Changes in Onboard Behavior & Procedures after Cruises restart sailing again...

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

 

And what would it take for them to mandate changes? Is the present crisis enough to bring about mandated changes?

Ask Tony Fauci, he and his people are the experts, and the ones who write the VSP.  Do changes need to be made?  Possibly.  What changes?  That is up to the epidemiologists and a study of transmission vectors aboard the ship and what possible means to stop the vector could be done without affecting the base business of the shipowner.

 

And, as noted above, enforcement of the regulations would fall on the cruise line, and they are a service industry, so would be hesitant to annoy the customer, as they are now.  Also as noted, unless there is a penalty for non-compliance, such as the fine for not wearing a seat belt finally got a person to change, there will be no driving force for the customer to adhere to requirements any more than there is now.  Who sets the penalties?  Who does the enforcement?  What laws allow the penalties?  Remember, the VSP is an agreement between the USPH and the cruise lines, not a law, that says, "if you follow these requirements, we will consider your ship to be safe and free from infectious diseases, and we will suspend the statutory requirement of a full inspection of the ship every time it enters US waters."  The law says that the USPH boards and inspects every foreign flag ship that enters the US, every time it enters the US, and conducts a thorough sanitary inspection as well as health interviews with passengers and crew.  How do you think disembarkation would be then?

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

To be clear, I'm not intending my last post to be critical of you with your question, but more of a generic commentary regarding the idea of changes that could be made in the industry resulting from all of this.  I was just using your post as the platform. Sorry if it comes across as more directed since I quoted you - it wasn't intended that way. 

No problem, I took no offense. We are all trying to figure out the new reality.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Ask Tony Fauci, he and his people are the experts, and the ones who write the VSP.  Do changes need to be made?  Possibly.  What changes?  That is up to the epidemiologists and a study of transmission vectors aboard the ship and what possible means to stop the vector could be done without affecting the base business of the shipowner.

 

And, as noted above, enforcement of the regulations would fall on the cruise line, and they are a service industry, so would be hesitant to annoy the customer, as they are now.  Also as noted, unless there is a penalty for non-compliance, such as the fine for not wearing a seat belt finally got a person to change, there will be no driving force for the customer to adhere to requirements any more than there is now.  Who sets the penalties?  Who does the enforcement?  What laws allow the penalties?  Remember, the VSP is an agreement between the USPH and the cruise lines, not a law, that says, "if you follow these requirements, we will consider your ship to be safe and free from infectious diseases, and we will suspend the statutory requirement of a full inspection of the ship every time it enters US waters."  The law says that the USPH boards and inspects every foreign flag ship that enters the US, every time it enters the US, and conducts a thorough sanitary inspection as well as health interviews with passengers and crew.  How do you think disembarkation would be then?

If it is up to Tony Fauci, it's all over. Remember he said no one should go on a cruise. He also said no one over 70 should go on an airplane, but Trump vetoed that idea. So maybe it is up to what Fauci proposes that Trump will accept.

 

So far all they came up with is the letters from doctors that some lines are now requiring for passengers 70 and over.

 

The one thing I would propose that some lines are already doing is have servers on the buffets instead of self serve. That would be a lot easier to do than to have crew checking that passengers wash their hands after using the bathroom. (The last time I used a public bathroom, not that long ago, was in a skating rink. I of course washed my hands. The other person there at the same time as me did not. I cannot understand that behavior.

[clo]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

 

And what would it take for them to mandate changes? Is the present crisis enough to bring about mandated changes?

If one has the authority to "mandate" then it would take practically nothing. I guess like the Panama Canal restrictions. I don't think it got voted on 🙂 And, yep, I think this crisis is enough. With plenty more in our future if we don't make changes.

[clo]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

what possible means to stop the vector could be done without affecting the base business of the shipowner.

I don't want the Fauci's of this world to consider that a whole lot.

 

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Also as noted, unless there is a penalty for non-compliance, such as the fine for not wearing a seat belt finally got a person to change, there will be no driving force for the customer to adhere to requirements any more than there is now. 

I started using my seatbelt on New Year's Day 1975. Driving home - sober - from a party I saw drivers on the road that scared the dickens out of me. I used my very good brain to make that decision. About nine months later I got rear-ended by a big rig. My glasses hit the windshield and I assume my head would have without the belt. But, sure, fine them like crazy. If people are smart enough to figure it out then once sufficiently penalized maybe they'll tow the line. Whatever that line will be.

[leaveitallbehind]

7 minutes ago, clo said:

And, yep, I think this crisis is enough. With plenty more in our future if we don't make changes.

 

Again, what changes are you proposing?  I don't think anyone knows what that means yet.  No offense, but to just say something needs to change without understanding what specifically should be done is rather meaningless at this point.

Edited March 28, 2020 by leaveitallbehind

[clo]

19 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

Again, what changes are you proposing?  I don't think anyone knows what that means yet.  No offense, but to just say something needs to change without understanding what specifically should be done is rather meaningless at this point.

I know a whole lot about a few things and a small amount about a ton of things. Something I pride myself on is not even trying to be an expert on everything. But keeping an open mind to change is something I'm very good at and it seems that some here aren't good at at all.

[chengkp75]

53 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

If it is up to Tony Fauci, it's all over. Remember he said no one should go on a cruise

Sorry, I must have heard from a different source.  I heard him say that, at this time, in this pandemic, no one should get on a cruise.  And then he clarified that the next day saying that again, at this time, in this pandemic, those with underlying conditions or who are in high risk groups, should not go on a cruise.  I don't believe he was making a blanket condemnation of cruises.

[ldubs]

This is a pretty big topic that goes well beyond cruise ships.  I think about things like sports arenas, theaters, movie houses, schools, amusement parks, and there are probably many others that don't come to mind.   The current motivation would be for changes.  I think some changes will happen.  I don't know what they will be.  Some will probably be good and some will probably be window dressing.  Not all should come from the cruise line.  Big changes need to come from how passengers conduct themselves.    

[chengkp75]

36 minutes ago, clo said:

If one has the authority to "mandate" then it would take practically nothing. I guess like the Panama Canal restrictions. I don't think it got voted on 🙂 And, yep, I think this crisis is enough. With plenty more in our future if we don't make changes.

Panama Canal restrictions?

 

Anyway, yes, the CDC can easily mandate changes to the VSP, as they do regularly (last update was 2018), but again, whether their decisions, based on science, would require change as the public may feel is needed, is a different thing.  And, they could decide to have everyone report to check in with their full medical history, but do you think that the cost of having medical personnel to screen passengers would not seriously adversely affect the business of the cruises, and perhaps drive the industry away from our shores?  It is all a matter of risk/reward, as is everything in life.

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, ldubs said:

This is a pretty big topic that goes well beyond cruise ships.  I think about things like sports arenas, theaters, movie houses, schools, amusement parks, and there are probably many others that don't come to mind.   The current motivation would be for changes.  I think some changes will happen.  I don't know what they will be.  Some will probably be good and some will probably be window dressing.  Not all should come from the cruise line.  Big changes need to come from how passengers conduct themselves.    

While I agree with almost all you say here, unfortunately your last sentence just isn't going to happen in the US.

[davekathy]

We'd like to see the cruise lines continue with the newly implemented mandatory temperature screening.

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

While I agree with almost all you say here, unfortunately your last sentence just isn't going to happen in the US.

 

Agree, and it certainly isn't just the US.  

[clo]

38 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 Big changes need to come from how passengers conduct themselves.    

And considering that mayors all over the country are continuing to shut down parks/beaches/etc. because people refuse to obey the rules, I wouldn't put money on that. I see Chicago just shut down the Michigan Lake front.

[leaveitallbehind]

59 minutes ago, clo said:

I know a whole lot about a few things and a small amount about a ton of things. Something I pride myself on is not even trying to be an expert on everything. But keeping an open mind to change is something I'm very good at and it seems that some here aren't good at at all.

 

My point exactly - keep an open mind to change.  But the change has to be based on knowledge that will benefit the situation.  Simply saying something should change without an understanding of the solution would be is what I am commenting on.  We all just need to be patient as this unfolds to have those with the knowledge to do so determine what - if any - changes need to occur.

 

I'm sure we all can adapt to meaningful change that results in measurable improvement.

[Toofarfromthesea]

8 hours ago, babs135 said:

Do you mean not covering their mouths and noses?  I have a hiatus hernia and as a by-product of this I sometimes can have a prolonged coughing fit.  I am not contagious and I cover my mouth but where would I fit in with your thoughts, well intentioned as they may be

 

But if you get infected with the Wuhan virus that non-contagious cough is still a spreader of the virus to others.

[Toofarfromthesea]

It may end up being moot, because it is not at all clear to me that the industry can ride this out without outside help, and from what I am reading about the relief bill, no US help will be forthcoming to non-American companies.  That's the thing about strategic domiciling to avoid taxes.  Those strategic domiciles aren't going to bail out the cruise companies if they get in trouble.  And the US taxpayers apparently are not going to be bailing out foreign corporations.  US-based employees will get the individual benefits provided by the bill, but no institutional help for most of the cruiselines.

 

[zqvol]

I am probably the weird one, but I don't see any changes coming.

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

It may end up being moot, because it is not at all clear to me that the industry can ride this out without outside help, and from what I am reading about the relief bill, no US help will be forthcoming to non-American companies.  That's the thing about strategic domiciling to avoid taxes.  Those strategic domiciles aren't going to bail out the cruise companies if they get in trouble.  And the US taxpayers apparently are not going to be bailing out foreign corporations.  US-based employees will get the individual benefits provided by the bill, but no institutional help for most of the cruiselines.

 

I believe that the worst case scenario would be that the major lines file Chapter 11, restructure their debt, leaving their creditors either losing money, the shareholders losing money, or the creditors receiving equity in the company in exchange for debt relief, and the cruises would resume.

[Toofarfromthesea]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

I believe that the worst case scenario would be that the major lines file Chapter 11, restructure their debt, leaving their creditors either losing money, the shareholders losing money, or the creditors receiving equity in the company in exchange for debt relief, and the cruises would resume.

 

Can foreign companies file chapter 11 in the US?

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

While I agree with almost all you say here, unfortunately your last sentence just isn't going to happen in the US.

 

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Agree, and it certainly isn't just the US.  

 

Very true.  This photo circulated through our local media a few days ago about our neighbors to the north.  Despite all that's going on, these Vancouverites were playing beer pong.  It reminds me of the "covidiots" who packed the Florida beaches during Spring Break.

 

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, Aquahound said:

 

 

Very true.  This photo circulated through our local media a few days ago about our neighbors to the north.  Despite all that's going on, these Vancouverites were playing beer pong.  It reminds me of the "covidiots" who packed the Florida beaches during Spring Break.

 

 

No worries - those spring breakers down in Florida will likely be the ones eventually paying for the $2 Trillion relief.  Poetic justice!  😄 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Can foreign companies file chapter 11 in the US?

Yes, they can.

[Aplmac]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Big changes need to come from how passengers conduct themselves.    

 

That IS the crux of the matter for the future of cruising

if we want it to continue!

 

Bad Things are usually/often brought on to a clean ship

by pax -not so much by crew.

Things has been known for some time.

So it is up to Us Cruisers to aid and refine the industry.

_______________________________________________

Nuther thing - be ready for second waves of Covid

in countries that think they're "over it now"

[George C]

7 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Can foreign companies file chapter 11 in the US?

But they will not get bail out and loans from the US. I believe there will be changes everywhere, i believe buffet will change or be eliminated, I know on holland America first day or so of cruise there was a buffet but food was served by staff. Hopefully my next cruise will sail in November but it’s msc yacht club, nothing is crowded there not pool chairs , bar area ,etc , I am happy to spend extra to have a little more space.