Changes in Onboard Behavior & Procedures after Cruises restart sailing again...

[Toofarfromthesea]

17 hours ago, Odile1 said:

1. We should all calm down

2. Cruise lines will find a balance of enhancing cleaning , regulating buffet , how much it will cost them and still make a profit

3. If I see kids or adults behaving in a manner that is not safe for the rest of the population, it is my responsibility to mention it , either to them or a staff member .

4. Maybe next year the CDC will not disregard that local flu and will include it on the flu vaccine they work on every year

And I hope in the future the  FDA will approve new drugs a faster

5. I wish I was in Sweden

That sounds like a very strange wish, since Sweden has had about 24 deaths per million residents and the US has had about 15 deaths per million residents.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases

 

Sweden's population is about 10 million and US population is about 325 million.  Do the math.

[Toofarfromthesea]

16 hours ago, zblair said:

All crew and passengers must present proof of COVID 19 vaccination before boarding ship. Think - no quarantine in cabins, all ports would welcomed us. This is what we are waiting for then we will sail away.

 

Do you expect the Chinese virus vaccine to be 100% effective?  While this is not the flu, we know a lot more about the flu and that vaccine.

"According to data from the U.S. Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness Network on 4,112 children and adults with acute respiratory illness during October 23, 2019–January 25, 2020, the overall estimated effectiveness of seasonal influenza vaccine for preventing medically attended, laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection was 45%."

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6907a1.htm

[Grado]

We have a Celebrity cruise in July (which we may cancel) and their guidelines now require anyone over 70 to have a note from their doctor saying they are clear to travel. There was no indication of how soon before the cruise this note had to be but I would assume close to sailing date.             

[Toofarfromthesea]

8 hours ago, Pster55 said:

hmmm....even if the drug is effective and kills fewer than the coronavirus? Personall, this is NOT a statement I would make around someone dying from the virus. You go to war with the weapons you have.....

 

This illustrates the built in bureaucratic bias against action.  We can measure the number of people who die or are damaged by a drug that turns out bad.  But we can NEVER get a measure of the numbers of people who die or are damaged because drugs that could have saved them are tied up in red tape.  So the bureaucracy can never be blamed for the inaction deaths, which is a very heavy weight on the inaction side of the scale.  A case of ignorance being bliss, for the bureaucracy, and potential tragedy for the afflicted.

And even so, those trials are no panacea.  The active ingredient in the popular acid reflux drug Zantac went through those trials yet was, after years of use, just pulled because it was found to contain a chemical that is a suspected carcinogen.

There are no certainties to life other than the fact that each one of us will eventually die.

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, clo said:

But having antibodies can indicate active disease also.

 

I'll go with Dr. Fauci.

"Having identifiable coronavirus antibodies in your bloodstream also means you've probably built up immunity. In an interview last week, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said he was confident that recovered coronavirus patients would be immune.

 

Fauci said he'd be "willing to bet anything that people who recover are really protected against reinfection."

That's why identifying people who had the virus and recovered is imperative in the fight against the outbreak — those people could return to work or school safely while others remain isolated."

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-antibody-blood-test-covid-19-2020-3

[clo]

57 minutes ago, Grado said:

We have a Celebrity cruise in July (which we may cancel) and their guidelines now require anyone over 70 to have a note from their doctor saying they are clear to travel. There was no indication of how soon before the cruise this note had to be but I would assume close to sailing date.             

Considering how little is known, I can't imagine any doctor writing that. Yet. Maybe next year.

[clo]

1 hour ago, Vegas12 said:

Check out serological test corona—19 virus. Hope this helps. 😊

I finally found something - from Financial Times 🙂 - explains the differences.

"A finger ***** should provide enough blood to detect two types of antibodies against Sars-CoV-2. The first, IgM antibodies, are shortlived and may indicate that the virus is still present. They usually disappear a couple of weeks after infection. In their place emerge a second more durable type, IgG antibodies. No one knows yet how long these will last and provide resistance to reinfection — anything from a few months to a few years seems possible."

[RalphPat]

It’s up to all of us to point out to someone who’s exhibiting unacceptable/unsafe behavior that they need to do otherwise. Of course in a polite way, but this is the only way the poor behavior will change. (not only on cruises)
 

It’s unreasonable to expect cruise line staff to become police of what is socially acceptable.

[clo]

2 hours ago, clo said:

"A finger ***** should provide enough blood

Lol. Hopefully everyone can figure out what 'bad word' got auto-deleted.

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Do you expect the Chinese virus vaccine to be 100% effective?  While this is not the flu, we know a lot more about the flu and that vaccine.

"According to data from the U.S. Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness Network on 4,112 children and adults with acute respiratory illness during October 23, 2019–January 25, 2020, the overall estimated effectiveness of seasonal influenza vaccine for preventing medically attended, laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection was 45%."

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6907a1.htm

The reason that some years the flu vaccine has a low protection rate is that they have to guess which flu that they should aim for. With the coronavirus, if they develop a vaccine, they will know exactly what they are trying to prevent.

[Toofarfromthesea]

26 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

The reason that some years the flu vaccine has a low protection rate is that they have to guess which flu that they should aim for. With the coronavirus, if they develop a vaccine, they will know exactly what they are trying to prevent.

 

Until a slight variation emerges next fall.

[Toofarfromthesea]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Lol. Hopefully everyone can figure out what 'bad word' got auto-deleted.

 

Rhymes with stick, LOL.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, RalphPat said:

It’s up to all of us to point out to someone who’s exhibiting unacceptable/unsafe behavior that they need to do otherwise. Of course in a polite way, but this is the only way the poor behavior will change. (not only on cruises)
 

It’s unreasonable to expect cruise line staff to become police of what is socially acceptable.

 That “all of us” never seemed to step up to the plate when it came to skipping hand washing, grossly handling buffet implements, etc.  If cruise line staff can not  be expected to maintain certain minimal standards, perhaps cruise lines should not be permitted to operate.

[clo]

18 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

If cruise line staff can not  be expected to maintain certain minimal standards, perhaps cruise lines should not be permitted to operate.

I agree. I don't think dealing with pax who are even close to violating issues is above their pay grade. I think there are going to be some surprising - to some - changes. Like closing down.

[TheJuryIsStillOut]

21 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 That “all of us” never seemed to step up to the plate when it came to skipping hand washing, grossly handling buffet implements, etc.  If cruise line staff can not  be expected to maintain certain minimal standards, perhaps cruise lines should not be permitted to operate.

You can't change the wind, but you can adjust your sails.

 

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Until a slight variation emerges next fall.

I thought I read somewhere that this virus is closer to measles than to the various flu viruses. Measles does not change, and the measles vaccine does not need to change. (I have no cite for this.)

[chengkp75]

13 hours ago, clo said:

I agree. I don't think dealing with pax who are even close to violating issues is above their pay grade. I think there are going to be some surprising - to some - changes. Like closing down.

I don't foresee "sanitation police" on cruise ships any more than there are/will be in restaurants, theme parks, casinos, or hotels.

[cdwise]

On 3/28/2020 at 1:19 PM, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Can foreign companies file chapter 11 in the US?

 

They can if they have a "connection" to the US aka corporate presence doing business but likely it would have to be the parent companies which in many cases are US corporations filing.

[cdwise]

On 3/29/2020 at 4:48 PM, Lady Chew said:

 

My siblings & I were all born between 1949 and 1957.  My dad installed seat belts in the car with child #1, and we all had car seats!  Not quite as good as the ones we all had for our babies in the 1980s & 90s, and not as  good as the ones used today, but still … car seats!

 

I don't know what my parents did with me as the oldest but I remember my brothers in the early to mid 60s had a chest harness that was clipped to a strap that went around the backseat enabling them to sit down, lay down, when toddlers to stand but not move side to side. I use a similar harness on our dogs but now with a clip that fastens into the seat belt lock.

 

Back on topic most of the "recommended" changes are already in effect in most of the ships we've been on that have come out of refurbishment all has hand washing stations near the buffet. Something I was glad to see because I prefer to wash my hands over using sanitizer. In fact I usually go into the bathroom next to the buffet and wash if I'm on a ship without one.  I've seen crew replacing tongs, spoons, etc frequently on the buffets. Some lines do have servers on the buffet and I'm okay either way. Same with ice cream dispensers, some ships have them on the pool deck as self serve others have them with the hard ice cream served by a crew member. 

 

Occupancy limits are posted on all pools and hot tubs, your choice about using them. Exercise equipment just like at my rec center at home has wipes. Use them before and after if you are concerned. If you don't see a container or two of them ask at the spa desk and you'll get them refilled.

 

I do like the idea of water bottle filling stations which few ships have. 

 

Coughing, if you expect nobody who ever has to sneeze or cough not to go in public areas of a cruise ship, do you expect the same at home? If so, a lot of folks like me who take a medication where cough is a known side effect or folks with allergies and other not contagious medical conditions would never be allowed out of their house. Cover your cough, sure. If you think it is something contagious say in but otherwise your expectation is completely unrealistic. Oh and you better ban scents as well since they can cause some people to sneeze.

 

Remember if you see behavior, especially on the buffet food lines like putting food back that was touched by human hands let a crew member know and they'll replace the tray. Otherwise, do what you are comfortable with when it comes to pools, spas, 

[cdwise]

19 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

20 hours ago, ontheweb said:

The reason that some years the flu vaccine has a low protection rate is that they have to guess which flu that they should aim for. With the coronavirus, if they develop a vaccine, they will know exactly what they are trying to prevent.

 

Until a slight variation emerges next fall.

 

Or the next sars, mers, ebola type disease gets out in the wild like H1N1, HIV, etc.

 

Looking at some of these posts even though I've got many years to reaching 70 I'd never be allowed out or on a cruise because of chronic not contagious conditions including seasonal allergies that cause cough or sneezing. Seriously people, have you never had a cough or sneeze from something that wasn't infectious? 

[TheJuryIsStillOut]

15 minutes ago, cdwise said:

 

Or the next sars, mers, ebola type disease gets out in the wild like H1N1, HIV, etc.

 

Looking at some of these posts even though I've got many years to reaching 70 I'd never be allowed out or on a cruise because of chronic not contagious conditions including seasonal allergies that cause cough or sneezing. Seriously people, have you never had a cough or sneeze from something that wasn't infectious? 

Perfume.  Sometimes I need to move my seat if someone sits near me with certain fragrances.

Kat

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, cdwise said:

 

They can if they have a "connection" to the US aka corporate presence doing business but likely it would have to be the parent companies which in many cases are US corporations filing.

I am not certain if doing significant business in the US would qualify them for chapter 11 reorganization — but I would think that such chapter 11 filing would be a necessary prerequisite before any US assistance/bailout could be considered —- and the present stockholders would be very reluctant to take the loss necessary — how do you think GM and Chrysler stockholders liked their treatment in the past decade - or bank holding company stockholders in the 1980’s?

[cdwise]

4 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I am not certain if doing significant business in the US would qualify them for chapter 11 reorganization — but I would think that such chapter 11 filing would be a necessary prerequisite before any US assistance/bailout could be considered —- and the present stockholders would be very reluctant to take the loss necessary — how do you think GM and Chrysler stockholders liked their treatment in the past decade - or bank holding company stockholders in the 1980’s?

 

As long as they have a US office they can per https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-basics/chapter-11-bankruptcy-basics since for a corporation a place of business can be their "domicile or residence". Usually the state in which they are either incorporated or have filed foreign corporation registration in is where they would file though some corporations have been known to forum shop which jurisdiction to file in. Hopefully though it won't come to that. I know I received an email from Royal Caribbean's President outlining the financing they have lined up to take them through this crisis.

[cdwise]

9 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I thought I read somewhere that this virus is closer to measles than to the various flu viruses. Measles does not change, and the measles vaccine does not need to change. (I have no cite for this.)

No, it is a coronavirus more closely related to the common cold - 40% of winter colds are caused by coronaviruses than it is to the flu. Closest relatives are Sars and Mers. That's why drugs developed for those as well as HIV and Ebola are showing the most promising in treatment of cases. 

[ontheweb]

3 minutes ago, cdwise said:

No, it is a coronavirus more closely related to the common cold - 40% of winter colds are caused by coronaviruses than it is to the flu. Closest relatives are Sars and Mers. That's why drugs developed for those as well as HIV and Ebola are showing the most promising in treatment of cases. 

Thank you for the correction.