Changes in Onboard Behavior & Procedures after Cruises restart sailing again...

[joytocruise27]

It will be interesting what changes are put in place.  I would think, in order to reassure passengers, that at least a few changes would be made. Wonder about the difference between cruise lines or if changes will be about the same. For myself, I will not cruise until there is a vaccine available for Covid-19.  In the hopes of that, I have placed a deposit for a cruise in 2023. Long time away but very excited. 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, cdwise said:

 

As long as they have a US office they can per https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-basics/chapter-11-bankruptcy-basics since for a corporation a place of business can be their "domicile or residence". Usually the state in which they are either incorporated or have filed foreign corporation registration in is where they would file though some corporations have been known to forum shop which jurisdiction to file in. Hopefully though it won't come to that. I know I received an email from Royal Caribbean's President outlining the financing they have lined up to take them through this crisis.

Forum shopping is standard in chapter 11 filings - not just state (which for US corps. can be state of incorporation or any state where “significant” business is conducted) but also District within the chosen state. 

[cdwise]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Forum shopping is standard in chapter 11 filings - not just state (which for US corps. can be state of incorporation or any state where “significant” business is conducted) but also District within the chosen state. 

Too true and not just in bankruptcy proceedings though I hope it doesn't come to that for the cruise lines. We may see some brand consolidation though. 

[SRF]

On 4/1/2020 at 8:39 PM, Odile1 said:

4. Maybe next year the CDC will not disregard that local flu and will include it on the flu vaccine they work on every year

 

 

5. I wish I was in Sweden

 

So how are they supposed to predict the future accurately?????  The vaccine can cover 3 or 4 strains ONLY.  And it takes time to produce the vaccine.  So they have to decide BEFORE flu season, which ones to pick for the vaccine.  Sorry, but their crystal ball is not that good.  Low bidder. 🙂

 

REALLY?  Have you seen the latest from Sweden?  Their rates are skyrocketing. 6131 cases and 358 deaths as of this morning.

 

10th in deaths per million population once you remove the very small countries, like Andorra and Luxembourg (few cases skew the per million numbers).

 

 

[SRF]

16 hours ago, cdwise said:

No, it is a coronavirus more closely related to the common cold - 40% of winter colds are caused by coronaviruses than it is to the flu. Closest relatives are Sars and Mers. That's why drugs developed for those as well as HIV and Ebola are showing the most promising in treatment of cases. 

 

Yes, and no.

 

The HIV/Ebola drugs are working, as they mediate the bodies response.  The HIV drug that is showing promise moderates the cytokine storm, that is a immune response, that over done, causes pneumonia.

[Toofarfromthesea]

19 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I am not certain if doing significant business in the US would qualify them for chapter 11 reorganization — but I would think that such chapter 11 filing would be a necessary prerequisite before any US assistance/bailout could be considered —- and the present stockholders would be very reluctant to take the loss necessary — how do you think GM and Chrysler stockholders liked their treatment in the past decade - or bank holding company stockholders in the 1980’s?

 

Or, even worse, their bondholders.

[CruisingAlong4Now]

21 hours ago, TheJuryIsStillOut said:

Perfume.  Sometimes I need to move my seat if someone sits near me with certain fragrances.

Kat

 YES! I'm not allergic to perfume, but scents irritate my throat so I cough. Sometimes quite loudly and for a period of time.  I wish women (and men) would adhere to Coco Chanel's advice when dressing.  Put everything on and then take one thing off.  I wish that one thing could be perfume.

[navybankerteacher]

On 4/2/2020 at 7:37 PM, ontheweb said:

The reason that some years the flu vaccine has a low protection rate is that they have to guess which flu that they should aim for. With the coronavirus, if they develop a vaccine, they will know exactly what they are trying to prevent.

In addition to developing a vaccine, it would help to identify (to the extent possible) factors contributing to severity of symptoms.  It clearly is not simply tied to age, as some elderly have tested positive while showing no symptoms and some very young have not survived.  Would having received pneumonia vaccines have an impact. How about previous exposure to flu?  It is hard to not see vaping (possibly even exposure to tobacco smoke - past or present) as playing a part.

[bob brown]

On 3/28/2020 at 2:22 AM, Aquahound said:

 

Simply put, it's the measure of a ship's crowding.  Take the gross tonnage and divide it by the number of passengers.  If the number is in the 40s or higher, it's a great score.  Upper 30s is pretty good.  Lower 30s is quite crowded.  20s is just ridiculous.  

 

On 3/28/2020 at 2:46 AM, chengkp75 said:

A rough measure.

It's a rough measure, because besides the raw number, the way the ship is designed also has some bearing...some ships have poor layouts, that cause passenger's into "bottlenecks", others have better 'flow'.....

[bob brown]

 

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Edited April 5, 2020 by bob brown
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[bob brown]

redacted, duplicate post

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by bob brown

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, bob brown said:

 

It's a rough measure, because besides the raw number, the way the ship is designed also has some bearing...some ships have poor layouts, that cause passenger's into "bottlenecks", others have better 'flow'.....

It's also rough because it is "gross tonnage", meaning all enclosed volume is included.  A better measure would be "Net Tonnage per passenger", because "net tonnage" is only that volume used to carry "cargo" (passengers), so fuel, water, and ballast tanks, engineering spaces all throughout the ship, and all crew spaces are subtracted from the calculation.  However, Net Tonnage does not allow for bragging rights as to who has the biggest, and also most fees are based on Gross Tonnage.  So, larger ships may have less mechanical space as a percentage of Gross Tonnage than a smaller ship, skewing the figures, or an older ship may have less crew space because of 4-6 person cabins, while the newer ships have 2 person cabins, and so skew the figures this way.

[clo]

16 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It's also rough because it is "gross tonnage", meaning all enclosed volume is included.  A better measure would be "Net Tonnage per passenger", because "net tonnage" is only that volume used to carry "cargo" (passengers), so fuel, water, and ballast tanks, engineering spaces all throughout the ship, and all crew spaces are subtracted from the calculation.  However, Net Tonnage does not allow for bragging rights as to who has the biggest, and also most fees are based on Gross Tonnage.  So, larger ships may have less mechanical space as a percentage of Gross Tonnage than a smaller ship, skewing the figures, or an older ship may have less crew space because of 4-6 person cabins, while the newer ships have 2 person cabins, and so skew the figures this way.

Do passengers really care about this? Asking sincerely.

[chengkp75]

42 minutes ago, clo said:

Do passengers really care about this? Asking sincerely.

I don't know, there's always a lot of discussion about "passenger space ratio" (GT per pax) here on CC every time a new ship class comes out.  I just feel that GT/pax is not the right number to be using.

[clo]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't know, there's always a lot of discussion about "passenger space ratio" (GT per pax) here on CC every time a new ship class comes out.  I just feel that GT/pax is not the right number to be using.

I've seen that, wondered why but didn't ask 🙂 If I knew I can't imagine it mattering unless I were or are in the biz. So thanks.

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, clo said:

Do passengers really care about this? Asking sincerely.

 

I wouldn't say I really care but to some degree I do care.  When Oasis was being built, I was very skeptical about cruising with 6000 other passengers.  However, when I saw the ratio in the 40s, I thought it wouldn't be too bad.  Sure enough, I went on the ship and found it to be pleasantly uncrowded.  

 

On the other hand, after cruising Caribbean Princess, with a ratio of 30, I doubt I'll every sail her or her sisters again because I felt very crowded the entire cruise.  

 

But as was pointed about by my snipe friend, it is a rough figure.  I also agree with bob brown in that some ships are designed much better than others.  However, in the case of Carnival Mardi Gras, I don't know how any ship design can defeat a ratio of 28.  

[SRF]

23 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

In addition to developing a vaccine, it would help to identify (to the extent possible) factors contributing to severity of symptoms.  It clearly is not simply tied to age, as some elderly have tested positive while showing no symptoms and some very young have not survived.  Would having received pneumonia vaccines have an impact. How about previous exposure to flu?  It is hard to not see vaping (possibly even exposure to tobacco smoke - past or present) as playing a part.

 

Right now, one of the biggest risk factors seems to be obesity.

 

With high blood pressure and diabetes also a factor.

[bob brown]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't know, there's always a lot of discussion about "passenger space ratio" (GT per pax) here on CC every time a new ship class comes out.  I just feel that GT/pax is not the right number to be using.

Unfortunately, it is all that is usually available as a basis for comparison...I haven't seen any lines quoting their "net tonnage per passenger", in new build stats...

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't know, there's always a lot of discussion about "passenger space ratio" (GT per pax) here on CC every time a new ship class comes out.  I just feel that GT/pax is not the right number to be using.

 

GT/pax is hard for me to wrap my head around.  I would prefer a passenger density measure based on something like pax per 100 sq yards or 100 sq meters of public area.  Only because I can better visualize that concept.  

[SRF]

14 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

GT/pax is hard for me to wrap my head around.  I would prefer a passenger density measure based on something like pax per 100 sq yards or 100 sq meters of public area.  Only because I can better visualize that concept.  

 

Gross tons is a volume measurement.  About 175 cubic feet per Gross ton.

 

Assuming 10 foot ceiling height, 17.5 square feet per gross ton.

 

You can now do the math of square feet per passenger.

 

Oasis is 226,838 gross tons.  So 3,969,665 square feet.  6780 max passengers, so 585 square feet per passenger. 

 

Not exactly, as gross tonnage is actually dimensionless.  But you can compare ships.

 

 

[ldubs]

On 4/6/2020 at 6:41 AM, SRF said:

 

Gross tons is a volume measurement.  About 175 cubic feet per Gross ton.

 

Assuming 10 foot ceiling height, 17.5 square feet per gross ton.

 

You can now do the math of square feet per passenger.

 

Oasis is 226,838 gross tons.  So 3,969,665 square feet.  6780 max passengers, so 585 square feet per passenger. 

 

Not exactly, as gross tonnage is actually dimensionless.  But you can compare ships.

 

 

Thanks.  I like that as a passenger density measure because I can visualize it.   But really, in my mind, it would be that much more meaningful if it included only passenger public areas.    

[d9704011]

20 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Thanks.  I like that as a passenger density measure because I can visualize it.   But really, in my mind, it would be that much more meaningful if it included only passenger public areas.    

I agree on the passenger public areas (not so much ‘volume’).  Additionally, some way to allow for outside space which is not part of the whole tonnage measurement scheme i.e. how much space for passengers to lounge around the pool(s).

 

I guess all of this is way off the original topic but I think that pretty much wore itself out.

[Ellusionz]

We booked a Dec 2020 cruise last year. Was just wondering everyones opinions on this but my job already stated they may have anyone taking cruise vacations be required to stay home after cruise for 2 weeks. Then I heard on the news about possible regulations on not allowing cruise people on airplanes after cruises? Or maybe I heard that wrong? Any ideas of what may be coming?

 

I'm also wondering if cruise pricing may start going up because of new cleaning protocol after each cruise to offset cost. I can see them doing a full scrub down, maybe with a day between cruises.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Ellusionz

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, d9704011 said:

I agree on the passenger public areas (not so much ‘volume’).  Additionally, some way to allow for outside space which is not part of the whole tonnage measurement scheme i.e. how much space for passengers to lounge around the pool(s).

 

I guess all of this is way off the original topic but I think that pretty much wore itself out.

The open central area of the Oasis class ships, and any non-totally enclosed areas (i.e. open pool decks, even surrounded by glass, and sports decks) are not included in tonnage calculations.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, Ellusionz said:

We booked a Dec 2020 cruise last year. Was just wondering everyones opinions on this but my job already stated they may have anyone taking cruise vacations be required to stay home after cruise for 2 weeks. Then I heard on the news about possible regulations on not allowing cruise people on airplanes after cruises? Or maybe I heard that wrong? Any ideas of what may be coming?

 

I'm also wondering if cruise pricing may start going up because of new cleaning protocol after each cruise to offset cost. I can see them doing a full scrub down, maybe with a day between cruises.

Those restrictions on using "public transportation" (including airplanes) after a cruise are pretty much for the current cruises that have yet to finish and disembark passengers (yes, there are still some out there), mostly the two HAL ships in Florida.  There is no indication that these are going to be permanent restrictions.

 

I doubt that there will be a full day between cruises, nor do I foresee any major changes to cleaning protocols.  If there were to be a "null" day between cruises, while your price might not go up, you would only get a 6 day cruise for the price of a 7.