Did Crown Princess violate federal law today?

[LMaxwell]

Watching the Broward Commissioners meeting regarding Zaandam and Rotterdam; the Port Director for Port Everglades said he was caught completely blindsided today by Crown Princess arriving with crew needing medevac.  He stated this violated federal law and that the CDC and USCG were not informed either.  The Carnival rep stated that Princess contacted Broward Health directly, and another Broward Commissioner had the CEO of Broward Health on the phone contesting the veracity of that statement.  Even though ships need to report these instances, do the port entities question the ship or is there any kind of sign off process? 

[voljeep]

scheduled to depart at 4:00 - watching on Fort Lauderdale and PE webcams ...

[onboard2005]

Does that apply to only sick crew or also passengers coming into any US port?

[LMaxwell]

1 hour ago, onboard2005 said:

Does that apply to only sick crew or also passengers coming into any US port?

 

Both.  Celebrity did it in San Diego, covered up sick guest to get them off the ship, and now there are new port restrictions due to that. I anticipate the state of California to take action against RCCL 

[onboard2005]

3 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Both.  Celebrity did it in San Diego, covered up sick guest to get them off the ship, and now there are new port restrictions due to that. I anticipate the state of California to take action against RCCL 

I live in San Diego.  KUSI tv has been covering it. They can't get a response from Celebrity. The port authorities aren't talking either. These people were let off the ship to take all kind of transportation home exposing everyone they came in contact with. They knew she was severely sick with possible COVID19 and still didn't report it when entering San Diego. 

[SakeDad]

Well, when the Governor has no compassion and tells ships they won't allow them in port the Captain has no choice but to do what he can to take care of HIS crew & guests! You can bet Shoreside knew exactly what he was going to do and gave their blessings. Or he decided he's finished on ships and went rogue. Either way I applaud him. The problem now is if these people took public transport (Uber, taxi, etc...) rather than having proper medical transport to a quarantine. This will be very interesting to follow from all sides. But cruise lines have MADE the Florida port cities what they are....we'll see how kindly they take to a Governor who isn't working with them.

[LMaxwell]

23 minutes ago, SakeDad said:

Well, when the Governor has no compassion and tells ships they won't allow them in port the Captain has no choice but to do what he can to take care of HIS crew & guests! You can bet Shoreside knew exactly what he was going to do and gave their blessings. Or he decided he's finished on ships and went rogue. Either way I applaud him. The problem now is if these people took public transport (Uber, taxi, etc...) rather than having proper medical transport to a quarantine. This will be very interesting to follow from all sides. But cruise lines have MADE the Florida port cities what they are....we'll see how kindly they take to a Governor who isn't working with them.

 

You are way off base and incorrect.  The governor was elected by the people of Florida, and he works for the citizens of Florida.  He doesn't work for the Cruise Lines.   Here is the directive put out by the Coast Guard.  If you ARE correct then it is very simple; company executives need to be tried for breaking federal law.  They endangered first responders. The Captain should be fired and class certifications stripped away 

 

[SakeDad]

5 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 The Carnival rep stated that Princess contacted Broward Health directly, and another Broward Commissioner had the CEO of Broward Health on the phone contesting the veracity of that statement. 

 

2 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

You are way off base and incorrect.  The governor was elected by the people of Florida, and he works for the citizens of Florida.  He doesn't work for the Cruise Lines.   Here is the directive put out by the Coast Guard.  If you ARE correct then it is very simple; company executives need to be tried for breaking federal law.  They endangered first responders. The Captain should be fired and class certifications stripped away 

 

Well, we'll just have to wait and see if they DID indeed report as they are saying and someone dropped the ball or if they never reported it. 

The Crown is due in Saturday, we'll have to see how this affects them as well.

 

Also, MANY of those Florida residents he is sworn to protect make a living as a direct result of the cruise lines. So if this gets into a pissing match THEY are the ones that will be hurt the most in the end.

[LMaxwell]

2 minutes ago, SakeDad said:

 

Well, we'll just have to wait and see if they DID indeed report as they are saying and someone dropped the ball or if they never reported it. 

The Crown is due in Saturday, we'll have to see how this affects them as well.

 

Also, MANY of those Florida residents he is sworn to protect make a living as a direct result of the cruise lines. So if this gets into a pissing match THEY are the ones that will be hurt the most in the end.

The Port Director today testified at the Broward County Commission Hearing that he was never informed and neither was the CDC or the USCG.  The Carnival Representative did not dispute this. 

 

Put a number on "many".  There are 2million people in Broward County.  If HAL or Princess wants to take their operations elsewhere good luck; they are locked into multi-year contracts with the Port and what alternative ports are they going to base out of to attract US customers to cruise in the Caribbean?  

Edited April 1, 2020 by LMaxwell

[LMaxwell]

This is just another in a long list of violations of federal law by Carnival Corp; they have always gotten a slap on the wrist and pay the fine.  Until someone is actually held responsible that is likely all that will happen here as well. 

[caribill]

4 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

 

One part mentions ill persons, but another part only refers to crew ("onboard personnel").

[Doris&Nereus]

4 hours ago, SakeDad said:

 

Well, we'll just have to wait and see if they DID indeed report as they are saying and someone dropped the ball or if they never reported it. 

The Crown is due in Saturday, we'll have to see how this affects them as well.

 

Also, MANY of those Florida residents he is sworn to protect make a living as a direct result of the cruise lines. So if this gets into a pissing match THEY are the ones that will be hurt the most in the end.

Yes, many of us do make a living as a result of the cruise industry. And many of my good friends may lose jobs. But, we can't let this virus kill us. BTW, there are people on that HAL ship from my neighborhood. Therefore, we must find a way to get them off the ship in a safe way. 

[chengkp75]

While I won't comment on the veracity or otherwise of elected officials involved with this, or whether the facts they presented are correct or not, I'll mention the law.

 

Ships are required to submit ENOA (electronic notice of arrival) to the USCG, and this includes a statement of health for the ship (the ship is requesting "free pratique", or the right to dock without quarantine).  This statement of health includes both crew and passengers, for a passenger vessel.  This must be submitted to the USCG at least 72 hours prior to arrival in US waters, and must be updated at regular intervals, or whenever a change occurs.  It is then up to the USCG COTP to notify CBP and CDC of any health issues onboard the ship in question.

 

As for notifying the CDC directly, for respiratory illness I believe it is a "recommendation" for ships to do so, but I don't believe it is mandatory (I would have to double check that), but of course in today's environment, it would be foolish not to.

 

Now, as far as a ship arriving in port with ill people, there isn't a whole lot to stop the ship from entering the "port environs" (like anchoring) and having to remain in a "quarantine anchorage", but of course the US is also required to lend aid to evacuated injured/ill crew from all vessels in the area under UNCLOS.

 

Until I hear a statement from the USCG directly, I will withhold judgement on this, and would like to have a link to the allegation that Celebrity covered up illnesses, as I haven't heard about this.

[skynight]

According to yesterday's Coral Princess reports there are no known cases of COVID-19 on board. The Independent UK headline shown in post 13 does not seem to be accurate if it refers to the Coral Princess. There are lots of British passengers on board the Coral.

Maybe the headline refers to another ship.

https://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/notices/coral-princess-updates.html

 

The sick crew member on the Crown could have been another medical emergency not related to COVID-19. This remains to be reported. If it was COVID-19 better to get that person into proper care then leaving him/her on a ship in crowded conditions. Maybe the Crown followed proper procedure, maybe not. It appears that a medical staff was ready to offload the crew member. Someone was notified in advance of docking.

 

The Crown is already in U.S. territory hanging out just off the Port Everglades coast. It has been there since March 16th. Don't know if this has anything to do with all the legal stuff mentioned. In any case it's not up to us, mostly customers, to second guess ship operations.

[Coral]

I hope the crew member is getting medical help and is on the mend!

[LMaxwell]

4 hours ago, Ombud said:

If it was a sick Crown crew member then where should they have been medevac from ? 

 

It was Crown, which has been rotating in and out of port for the past few weeks.  It would seem the Captain was aware of the US Coast Guard Directive published 3/29 and on 3/31 chose to purposely ignore it in order to evac crew members; the vessel master likely knew they would be denied assistance if requested. 

[LMaxwell]

35 minutes ago, skynight said:

 

The sick crew member on the Crown could have been another medical emergency not related to COVID-19. This remains to be reported. 

 

The cause is not known at the moment, but either way the ship did not follow protocol and violated Federal Law.  

 

https://homeport.uscg.mil/Lists/Content/Attachments/62863/MSIB 20-001 COVID-19 Cruiseship Medical Capabilities_Signed.29Mar20.pdf

There is the public memo published by the Coast Guard 

[LMaxwell]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

and would like to have a link to the allegation that Celebrity covered up illnesses, as I haven't heard about this.

https://www.kusi.com/family-confirms-passenger-on-cruise-ship-docked-in-san-diego-tests-positive-for-covid-19/

 

This link references changes made by the Port Director in San Diego after this.  I saw their order as well but looking for the direct link to that to provide for you 

 

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/local-news/passenger-on-cruise-ship-docked-in-san-diego-test-positive-for-coronavirus/

[Ride-The-Waves]

9 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

https://www.kusi.com/family-confirms-passenger-on-cruise-ship-docked-in-san-diego-tests-positive-for-covid-19/

 

This link references changes made by the Port Director in San Diego after this.  I saw their order as well but looking for the direct link to that to provide for you 

 

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/local-news/passenger-on-cruise-ship-docked-in-san-diego-test-positive-for-coronavirus/

The links do nothing to confirm the allegation that Celebrity was willfully hiding a COVID-19 patient.  Nothing!

 

Where did Eclipse obtain the test kits?  How was it tested at sea before arrival? 

 

Greater concern are the 800 passengers off Grand Princess who stated that would NOT subject themselves to testing and left the ship.  Those who were tested had a ten percent infection rate.  So 80 people went to the 4-winds to infect those en route home, family and friends once home.  Very selfish and very disconcerting that any "cruiser" would act in such a despicable way.

[FiredogCruiser]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

While I won't comment on the veracity or otherwise of elected officials involved with this, or whether the facts they presented are correct or not, I'll mention the law.

 

Ships are required to submit ENOA (electronic notice of arrival) to the USCG, and this includes a statement of health for the ship (the ship is requesting "free pratique", or the right to dock without quarantine).  This statement of health includes both crew and passengers, for a passenger vessel.  This must be submitted to the USCG at least 72 hours prior to arrival in US waters, and must be updated at regular intervals, or whenever a change occurs.  It is then up to the USCG COTP to notify CBP and CDC of any health issues onboard the ship in question.

 

As for notifying the CDC directly, for respiratory illness I believe it is a "recommendation" for ships to do so, but I don't believe it is mandatory (I would have to double check that), but of course in today's environment, it would be foolish not to.

 

Now, as far as a ship arriving in port with ill people, there isn't a whole lot to stop the ship from entering the "port environs" (like anchoring) and having to remain in a "quarantine anchorage", but of course the US is also required to lend aid to evacuated injured/ill crew from all vessels in the area under UNCLOS.

 

Until I hear a statement from the USCG directly, I will withhold judgement on this, and would like to have a link to the allegation that Celebrity covered up illnesses, as I haven't heard about this.

For years, Ft. Lauderdale has encouraged people to fly into their airport, stay at their hotels, eat at their restaurants, rent cars from their vendors, buy gas from their fueling stations, shop at their retail outlets, and cruise from their port. Now I see that should I have cruised from there, and a pandemic experience occur while on board, they would not let me return to port for medical attention, because I am not a Floridian. Well, okay. As someone who has cruised from there in the past, I will never fly into Ft. Lauderdale again. I will never book another hotel room there. I will never patronize another restaurant there, spend a dime there, or book another cruise through that port. Ever! End of discussion. Princess, I advise you to find another port for future cruises when this crises is over.

[LMaxwell]

Just now, Ride-The-Waves said:

The links do nothing to confirm the allegation that Celebrity was willfully hiding a COVID-19 patient.  Nothing!

 

Where did Eclipse obtain the test kits?  How was it tested at sea before arrival? 

Yes they do.  Celebrity did not announce any sick people onboard when porting; but passengers and crew were medevac out with the passenger being confirmed COVID 19.  A family member of the passenger contacted the news and told them that Celebrity had announced NO SICK onboard and let everyone debark normally.  It was then local news agencies that broached the subject and Celebrity is refusing to comment

[LMaxwell]

Just now, FiredogCruiser said:

 I will never fly into Ft. Lauderdale again. I will never book another hotel room there. I will never patronize another restaurant there, spend a dime there, or book another cruise through that port. Ever!

 

 Florida has simply asked Carnival Corp for a Plan on how to handle the evacuation. Not sure why so many people think that's unreasonable; none will explain it.  Your money, your vote. 

[Roberto256]

1 hour ago, skynight said:

According to yesterday's Coral Princess reports there are no known cases of COVID-19 on board.

 

I hope that was from a reliable source, and not some reporter calling 1-800-princess, and asking...

 

That phone call would have gotten them at least three answers to a yes/no question.  🙂

 

[FiredogCruiser]

10 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

 Florida has simply asked Carnival Corp for a Plan on how to handle the evacuation. Not sure why so many people think that's unreasonable; none will explain it.  Your money, your vote. 

If Ft. Lauderdale is willing to abandon me in the middle of a medical emergency, to float endlessly at sea, I am more than willing to abandon Ft. Lauderdale, and spend my hard earned money in a community where I would feel I would be taken care of should something beyond my control occur. They have made it plain to me they want my money, not me. Okay, as you state, my money, my vote where and how to spend it. Since the cruise industry is not receiving any support in the stimulus bill, I see no reason from them to continue to support ports that refuse to allow them to care for their passengers and crew.

Edited April 1, 2020 by FiredogCruiser
spellling error

[LMaxwell]

7 minutes ago, FiredogCruiser said:

If Ft. Lauderdale is willing to abandon me in the middle of a medical emergency, to float endlessly at sea, I am more than willing to abandon Ft. Lauderdale, and spend my hard earned money in a community where I would feel I would be taken care of should something beyond my control occur. They have made it plain to me they want my money, not me. Okay, as you state, my money, my vote where and how to spend it. Since the cruise industry is not receiving any support in the stimulus bill, I see no reason from them to continue to support ports that refuse to allow them to care for their passengers and crew.

 

https://www.porteverglades.net/zaandam-update/

 

If you want to operate on facts and have an open mind, you may consider what Broward County is asking for.  It's not for me to convince you to spend money in Florida.  But I think for adults to have a discussion you have to do it on the basis of facts