Celebrity Eclipse exposed passengers to Covid19

[Stateroom_Sailor]

1 hour ago, Artquest said:

The captain and the cruise line made the choice to dock and send us home. We thought we were safe, so why not get back to our cities? Slinging around guilt towards the passengers seems misdirected. 

 

I don't blame passengers who went home thinking they were safe.  I do blame some for gloating about it.

[Va man]

I have read every post.  People were glad to be home, relieved to be home, excited to be at home, etc. I didn’t read any post that was gloating about being home

 

The only gloating that I saw was from people who thought they were smarter than anyone else by not putting themselves in our situation.

 

i am sorry if things you read made you think people were gloating. Writing is an inexact art and it is easy to misinterpret.

[Blackduck59]

14 minutes ago, Va man said:

I have read every post.  People were glad to be home, relieved to be home, excited to be at home, etc. I didn’t read any post that was gloating about being home

 

The only gloating that I saw was from people who thought they were smarter than anyone else by not putting themselves in our situation.

 

i am sorry if things you read made you think people were gloating. Writing is an inexact art and it is easy to misinterpret.

 

I have read, the posts too and agree, Most people who have posted that were on the cruise are thankful to be home rather than sitting on Eclipse waiting for the virus to spread to them like Diamond Princess. Some are angry with what transpired, in that they weren't warned to use some common sense precautions. Some unfortunately were exposed to the virus and I hope they will have a complete recovery, but be aware you are home and able to access proper medical care as opposed to sitting on the ship. And for all the armchair quarterbacks who have commented on the situation...if you weren't there you can't say what anyone coulda, shoulda or woulda done. Being that passengers were released to travel home it would have probably been prudent to practice social distancing, and perhaps wear some PPE and gone directly home to self isolate for 14 days. Sometimes you have to take personal responsibility for your own actions IMO.

[Mojogurued]

 

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Edited April 10, 2020 by Mojogurued

[The_Big_M]

7 hours ago, loerie said:

They were doing a job as I did -nursing ! Same as my grandchildren stocking shelves to keep the food line going -it’s called Working for a living regardless ,-I nursed in infectious diseases in Africa-doing my. Job and saying thank God  for work 

 

Seems like you knew your job "nursing with infections diseases" could expose you to something infectious. And presumably therefore you were able to take precautions and had protective equipment and procedures. 

 

None of the jobs mentioned here is meant to be exposed to a deadly virus. It's not part of their job role. Blithely disregarding that "because you had fun" doesn't justify that unexpected exposure.

[Va man]

None of the passengers was responsible for spreading the virus.  Most of us had no idea anyone was sick.  We thought we dodged a bullet.  Whether any of us had fun is immaterial.

 

i I also don’t think the medical staff blithely disregarded any of the sick patients.

 

The Captain is required to file forms with CDC when there are sick passengers, especially if they have flu like symptoms.  None of us can honestly say whether he did or not.  My guess is he did file the paperwork, rather than breaking the law and ruining his career.  You can find the forms online.

 

The Captain was not operating in a bubble and we don’t know who else was involved in the decision making.  For all we know, the CDC could have told him that quarantining on a ship was not advisable, given the experience with Princess. CDC, US Coast Guard, DHS, and state and local officials authorized us to dock and debark.  Just like CDC is allowing exposed workers to continue working, it wouldn’t surprise me if they had all the facts and didn’t require the Captain or passengers to take any action.  

Edited April 10, 2020 by Va man

[OuiOnboard]

Va nan,

You had fun  and tried to defend Celebrity. Stand down.

[paphoslady]

Oui Onboard why should Va Man stand down when they are only telling the truth. I for one hsd no idea that there were any cases on board until we got the notification from Celebrity. I dont understand why this bashing of cruise companies is happening

[UnorigionalName]

14 minutes ago, paphoslady said:

Oui Onboard why should Va Man stand down when they are only telling the truth. I for one hsd no idea that there were any cases on board until we got the notification from Celebrity. I dont understand why this bashing of cruise companies is happening

 

right, so that's part of why people are upset, that even when disembarking the authorities that be claimed that there were no cases on the ship.

 

But the facts seem to be:

1) There is a global pandemic that presents commonly with flu-LIKE symptoms

2) up to a week before disembarkation, a goodly number of passengers were presenting to the medical bay with flu like symptoms

3) They were negative for the flu test

4) There was at least one person who needed urgent hospitalization before disembarkation

5) That person was negative for the flu test

 

So with all the scant data available to us from the outside, like, anyone can see that this sounds like all the other COVID cruise ships.

 

So the question is, what broke down in the system

1) Was the captain and medical officers so obtuse and incompetent that they really believed all of it was caused by the flu?

2) Did they obfuscate and hide it to the port authorities in order to dock and disembark the passengers?

3) Did they tell the port authorities and the port authorities and celebrity together decided the best plan of action was to pretend everything was okay and let everyone go home and tell everyone afterwards that they were exposed?

 

It is not unreasonable to be upset that whoever it was let potentially hundreds of COVID passengers out into the wild, who went on to travel back home to many many countries and various states and counties.  It is especially not fair to the aircrew, who it turns out are having a super high COVID infection rate, to pretend that these people have the risk of an average person.

 

edit: and the subtext from all the pax posting here, is that they think this: "I am glad to be home.  I am glad that Celebrity did whatever it needed to do so I didn't get quarantined.  Thank goodness we wern't like the other quarantined ships.  Other people getting sick is a risk i'm willing to take to get home"

Edited April 10, 2020 by UnorigionalName

[Va man]

What is “a goodly number”?  No one knows how many had flu like symptoms on board.  We have heard anecdotal comments that the waiting room was full and about a handful of people were seriously sick.  We don’t know why people were in the waiting room.  Lots of people get upper respiratory infections on long voyages. It is possible most of they passengers waiting were not there with flu like symptoms.  We will never know.  

[Artquest]

We made at least four visits to the waiting room.  There were two groups treated differently by the staff.  The vast majority, those in all those chairs, had questions, mostly about medications, from what I heard. They talked to one of the staff and left. That’s what we were there for, too. Those in the interior waiting room who needed to actually see the doctor were the usual - hurt my foot, stomach ache, etc. Mostly a few at a time.

[Beachin2]

That site we can't name (but has lips and a nose) now reports 93 positive and 45 presumptive cases from this sailing passengers and crew.  Reading the comments it looks like many went to medical with flu like symptoms and were just told it was a cold.  Some were pretty descriptive and it seems pretty naive at best not to recognize it for what it was evolving into.

 

No reason to doubt these comments since, unlike here, folks use their real name there.

[Va man]

I am on that site as well.  Almost all of the people who post got sick after they were on their way home.  I noted fewer than a dozen that said that they went to the infirmary with symptoms related to the flu (or probable COVID 19).

[Blackduck59]

6 minutes ago, Beachin2 said:

That site we can't name (but has lips and a nose) now reports 93 positive and 45 presumptive cases from this sailing passengers and crew.  Reading the comments it looks like many went to medical with flu like symptoms and were just told it was a cold.  Some were pretty descriptive and it seems pretty naive at best not to recognize it for what it was evolving into.

 

No reason to doubt these comments since, unlike here, folks use their real name there.

Indeed there is no reason to doubt any accounts from anyone who was on that cruise. And I said earlier those of us who weren't can't spout about what coulda, shoulda, woulda done. That being said I wonder how many who were there and are commenting on that "other" forum are saying "man I wish they had locked us down in our cabins for the last 15 days after we were denied docking in San Antonio". Also that they were certainly more aware and tried to use common sense distancing and spent more time in there cabins. How many were happy to be in the scrum at the martini bar enjoying the free drinks etc. To those who have contracted the disease, I wish you a speedy recovery. For those who enjoyed all the fun, free drinks and amenities of the 2 week free cruise, you were aware that this was and is a world wide issue, and it could come from anywhere; a little common sense personal responsibility is probably in order. We are all responsible for our own actions own it.

[tiggy85]

11 hours ago, Va man said:

 

 

i I also don’t think the medical staff blithely disregarded any of the sick patients.

 

The Captain is required to file forms with CDC when there are sick passengers, especially if they have flu like symptoms.  None of us can honestly say whether he did or not.  My guess is he did file the paperwork, rather than breaking the law and ruining his career.  You can find the forms online.

 

 

https://www.kusi.com/celebrity-eclipse-cruise-ship-passenger-dies-from-covid-19/

[Beachin2]

48 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

Indeed there is no reason to doubt any accounts from anyone who was on that cruise. And I said earlier those of us who weren't can't spout about what coulda, shoulda, woulda done. That being said I wonder how many who were there and are commenting on that "other" forum are saying "man I wish they had locked us down in our cabins for the last 15 days after we were denied docking in San Antonio". Also that they were certainly more aware and tried to use common sense distancing and spent more time in there cabins. How many were happy to be in the scrum at the martini bar enjoying the free drinks etc. To those who have contracted the disease, I wish you a speedy recovery. For those who enjoyed all the fun, free drinks and amenities of the 2 week free cruise, you were aware that this was and is a world wide issue, and it could come from anywhere; a little common sense personal responsibility is probably in order. We are all responsible for our own actions own it.

Well, that's a bit pompous don't you think?

 

Fact:  1) Those on board were repeatedly told that there were no signs of sickness.  2) The ship ITSELF repeatedly lined everyone up in close quarters for various things, sometimes several times a day 3) Why should folks isolate if they are repeatedly told the ship is clean? 4) None of the shows, dining, buffet or other close proximity activities were either modified or cancelled 5) We had intended to be on that second sailing anyway (with a drink package) so free drinks were a moot point. 6) For most a cruise around Cape Horn is a once in a lifetime trip.  Many, us included, planned that trip for two years.

 

Can you seriously say with a straight face if you are on a cruise - and were repeatedly told the ship was healthy - you would have chosen to voluntarily hide under your bed? 

 

I just wish that they had told us THE TRUTH and permit us to make up our own minds.

[Blackduck59]

3 minutes ago, Beachin2 said:

Well, that's a bit pompous don't you think?

 

Fact:  1) Those on board were repeatedly told that there were no signs of sickness.  2) The ship ITSELF repeatedly lined everyone up in close quarters for various things, sometimes several times a day 3) Why should folks isolate if they are repeatedly told the ship is clean? 4) None of the shows, dining, buffet or other close proximity activities were either modified or cancelled 5) We had intended to be on that second sailing anyway (with a drink package) so free drinks were a moot point. 6) For most a cruise around Cape Horn is a once in a lifetime trip.  Many, us included, planned that trip for two years.

 

Can you seriously say with a straight face if you are on a cruise - and were repeatedly told the ship was healthy - you would have chosen to voluntarily hide under your bed? 

 

I just wish that they had told us THE TRUTH and permit us to make up our own minds.

 

I have said even in the post that those of us who weren't there can't really coulda, shoulda, woulda; but since you ask. I didn't say hide under your bed.

To your "facts"

1) whether you are told that there was no sickness or not there are ways to be cautious, I have been on Eclipse and you can be quite alone if you want to be, without being locked in your cabin.

2) even with these line ups there are also ways to work around that with a little work.

3) sometimes it's a pretty good idea to be cautious no matter what you are told.

4) it isn't hard to work around the buffet, get up early...it's deserted. If it's crowded go another time. Dining is a bit more difficult, depends on if you had any time dining. Or you could get room service.

5) indeed you had booked that cruise well in advance, unfortunately COVID got in the way, even though you had booked passage for that leg I am under the impression you have or will have a full refund...so free cruise.

6)Indeed a cruise around the horn is a once in a lifetime experience, and many including me want to do that voyage. And we did look at that cruise but decided last June that we would do New Zealand and Australia first.

 

And no I would not "hide under my bed". I can say that I would have spent more time in my cabin, I would get up early and have breakfast in the buffet when it is deserted. I would NOT be in the scrum at the Martini bar. and I would have skipped the shows we already saw on the first leg of the voyage. As I have said it is not correct for me to say what I coulda, shoulda, woulda done but you asked.

You call my comments pompous I say they are expecting adults to make adult decisions, during the unexpected section of the cruise itself and the ensuing trips home. No one told me doesn't really wash.

[UnorigionalName]

I wonder if part of the disconnect is the fact that the passengers onboard the eclipse were somewhat isolated and at sea when COVID really blew up on land.

 

They didn't have to live with the way of life rapidly shutdown, with all the anxiety, the patchwork stay at home orders, the change in daily routine, the daily news about new deaths.

 

On vacation you are already off your normal routine, and maybe psychologically it doesn't seem like that big a deal, and home quarantine isn't all that much different from vacation time.

 

Maybe that's why they don't understand the anger and bitterness of those on land, especially those who aren't retired and who aren't financially anywhere close to being secure and retired, having to sacrifice basically everything for the common good.  And then watching people traipsing off a cruise ship and spreading around a disease without a care in the world and potentially worsening and prolonging this plague that everyone is sacrificing for.

 

I don't think anyone is blaming passengers for how they acted, they didn't really know any better.  And I'm sure anyone would have the same feelings: to be glad to be home, and to be glad you avoided quarantine.  But it's a little unsavory to basically come to a forum and gloat about dodging quarantine.  Like, it would be a lot more polite to say "oh geez, i'm glad to be home, but I think celebrity should have quarantined us for the last few weeks at sea and taken the time to pay for and arrange charter flights so it wouldn't harm the community."  But no one expressed this sentiment, everyone has basically been saying "I think celebrity did great in getting us home" I.e. I don't care how it happened, but I am not willing to sacrifice anything, I don't care who has to be harmed.

[sheffield]

You know we can go backwards and forwards with all these comments but what it boils down to for me is that Celebrity made a dishonest statement when they docked, a fact corroborated by some passengers on board who had to go the clinic and by the fact that many passengers are now positive for COVID 19. Also many passengers who have posted on here don’t seem to find that a problem and also don’t seem to care that they could have infected people on their way home.
I find it quite shocking and upsetting that companies and individuals can behave like this. It actually makes my stomach churn that people can have such a blatant disregard for others. 

[sheffield]

Well said UnoriginalName. I find the whole smugness by the passengers on here very distasteful. 

[RDB16]

What is this site that is being quoted for the latest statistics on positive and presumptive testing?

[Blackduck59]

3 minutes ago, sheffield said:

You know we can go backwards and forwards with all these comments but what it boils down to for me is that Celebrity made a dishonest statement when they docked, a fact corroborated by some passengers on board who had to go the clinic and by the fact that many passengers are now positive for COVID 19. Also many passengers who have posted on here don’t seem to find that a problem and also don’t seem to care that they could have infected people on their way home.
I find it quite shocking and upsetting that companies and individuals can behave like this. It actually makes my stomach churn that people can have such a blatant disregard for others. 

 

Blatant disregard to COVID 19 has been shown by many in the US and other countries; Including the highest levels of governments and certainly the throngs of people at the beeches during spring break. This thing has been transported much more efficiently by air than cruise ship. Many people have been exposed by more different places than returning cruise passengers. 

[sheffield]

I agree but the discussion is about Celebrity and it’s passengers.

[Artquest]

Having passengers confined to their cabins during a "flu-like" outbreak didn't work so well for the Zaandam, which was smaller than Eclipse, with fewer passengers. Knowing that, I'm not sure if I would have chosen quarantine in cabins for Eclipse.

[Va man]

I think all of the comments blaming Celebrity for letting us debark and fly home are valid but misdirected.

 

CDC requires ships to report all illnesses https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/reporting-deaths-illness/index.html.

 

The decision to allow a cruise ship to dock and debark is not made by Celebrity.  The decision to allow us to dock is made by the US Coast Guard in consultation with DHS, CDC, and state, local, and port authorities.

 

A very small number of passengers were sick, however, I agree that we should have been quarantined before we flew home.  However you look at it, authorities had to have been aware of the person taken off in an ambulance.  At that point, they should have put a hold on letting us leave the ship until they had the results of her COVID test.  Government authorities screwed up in giving Celebrity permission to disembark us.  Why is nobody talking about that. It is inexcusable, given that someone left by ambulance, but it was not Celebrity’s call.

 

Most  of us didn’t know anyone was sick until we were home.  We are grateful to be home, but we had no idea we might be spreading COVID-19.  I think all of us regret that we might have spread the disease.  

Edited April 10, 2020 by Va man