Celebrity Eclipse exposed passengers to Covid19

[Beachin2]

4 minutes ago, Va man said:

I think all of the comments blaming Celebrity for letting us debark and fly home are valid but misdirected.

 

CDC requires ships to report all illnesses https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/reporting-deaths-illness/index.html.

 

The decision to allow a cruise ship to dock and debark is not made by Celebrity.  The decision to allow us to dock is made by the US Coast Guard in consultation with DHS, CDC, and state, local, and port authorities.

 

A very small number of passengers were sick, however, I agree that we should have been quarantined.  However you look at it, authorities had to have been aware of the person taken off in an ambulance.  At that point, they should have put a hold on letting us leave the ship until they had the results of her COVID test.  Government authorities screwed up in giving Celebrity permission to disembark us.  Why is nobody talking about that. It is inexcusable, given that someone left by ambulance, but it was not Celebrity’s call.

 

Most  of us didn’t know anyone was sick until we were home.  We are grateful to be home, but we had no idea we might be spreading COVID-19.

 

What was reported on the form?  Initial reports were that the lady in question had a heart condition - no mention of flu like symptoms.  That came out later.

 

Apparently, the public does not have access to CDC database for these form filings or I couldn't find it anyway.  There are reports on that "other" site of folks going to medical with flu-like symptoms, which I assume numbers would need to be reported on the form according to the instructions.

 

Since this is a public filed CDC form (with no privacy implications/patient names) I'm not sure why it isn't accessible.  Sure would introduce some hard facts into the matrix.  I'm not yet convinced that the ship shared the whole story accurately with the shore-side folks in San Diego. - which drove their actions.

 

 

[Va man]

Tiggy85

 

I have been in touch with the reporter and she is under the mistaken belief that one- half of the ship was sick.  We will never know how many reported flu like symptoms, but I would guess it was less than 1%.  As a result her spin is off based. 

[tiggy85]

6 minutes ago, Va man said:

Tiggy85

 

I have been in touch with the reporter and she is under the mistaken belief that one- half of the ship was sick.  We will never know how many reported flu like symptoms, but I would guess it was less than 1%.  As a result her spin is off based. 

Regardless of her stats Or spin being off (or not) - many from the ship are coming forward saying they went to the infirmary with flu-like symptoms prior to docking in SD. I do not believe that Celebrity was forthcoming with these peoples illnesses in their reporting to officials and there lies the problem. They essentially put passengers and my community at risk and IMHO just to save themselves from the costs associated with having a COVID ship.

 

It also doesn’t sound like Celebrity was very transparent with the passengers of the potential illnesses onboard which is why I believe so many are upset and speaking out on this post. 

[Blackduck59]

5 minutes ago, tiggy85 said:

Regardless of her stats Or spin being off (or not) - many from the ship are coming forward saying they went to the infirmary with flu-like symptoms prior to docking in SD. 

 

It also doesn’t sound like Celebrity was very transparent with the passengers of the potential illnesses onboard which is why I believe so many are upset and speaking out on this post. 

Full disclosure I did remove part of this comment to highlight the use of the concept of many.

Please define many, keeping in mind the context that Eclipse carries 2800 passengers. In a group of 200, 50 is many; in a group of 2800 it's not that many.

Are these same many angry passengers also incensed by the actions of those on the beach at spring break, many of whom flew back home, some of them on the very planes, with the same aircrews that were perhaps serving them on there flights home.

[tiggy85]

1 hour ago, Blackduck59 said:

Full disclosure I did remove part of this comment to highlight the use of the concept of many.

Please define many, keeping in mind the context that Eclipse carries 2800 passengers. In a group of 200, 50 is many; in a group of 2800 it's not that many.

Are these same many angry passengers also incensed by the actions of those on the beach at spring break, many of whom flew back home, some of them on the very planes, with the same aircrews that were perhaps serving them on there flights home.

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make by getting stuck on a single word and it’s definition. 
 

My point is that we are starting to hear more about people who were ill onboard this ship with “flu-like” symptoms and sought help onboard. This clearly shows the ship knew something was going on and in this day and age with the pandemic growing worldwide they should have known better. Now a man has died and I feel so very bad for his family. I also feel bad that passengers were led to feel safe and were put in  close quarter situations that could have been avoided had the ship chosen to be extra cautious. 
 

Hindsight is 20/20, however, at the time this ship docked in SD the most prudent and respectful thing for the ship to do for its guests and the community would have been to go above and beyond in its safety measures whether the local authorities required it or not.
 

No one needs to agree or disagree and I’m certainly not here for an argument but I do live and work in the community, I have friends at the hospitals and the airport. I truly hope Celebrities actions (or inaction) didn’t put them or their passengers at an increased risk. 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

4 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

Indeed there is no reason to doubt any accounts from anyone who was on that cruise. And I said earlier those of us who weren't can't spout about what coulda, shoulda, woulda done. 

 

Well, if that's Celebrity's attitude as well, they likely won't be welcome back anywhere.  Health officials, port authorities, and local populations are going to need more persuasion to be at the mercy of X's whims.

[WonderMan3]

On 4/9/2020 at 3:22 PM, paphoslady said:

I think Celebrity handled the developments on the Eclipse very well. What did you expect them to do, we had already been on board for 30 days. There was no evidence of the virus on board. Celebrity could have quarantined us all on board like the Diamond Princess but cruise ships dont have the facilities to deal with a viruus such as this. Where does the UK  is busy building hosputal wards at a frantic rate, the virus is already widedpread in all our communities.

 

There was evidence of respiratory illness on board as we know for sure that a woman was sick (with what was thought to be pneumonia) and confined to her cabin and another poster here who was onboard testified to other illness being present when they visited the Medical Center. COVID-19 is a respiratory illness. Did anyone know that those who were ill had COVID-19? No, because they had no test kits onboard. But that would be the same no matter where you are, whether you are on a cruise ship, at a hotel or at home; you could have a respiratory illness but until you get tested then there is "no evidence of [COVID-19]", so that's kind of a silly statement to make. You can say that there was no evidence TO YOU of illness on board, but others who were onboard have a different perspective. And knowing that there was respiratory illness onboard, in the middle of a worldwide pandemic for a respiratory illness, for Celebrity (whether it was the medical staff, The Captain or Corporate making the decision to keep it off the radar) to not make passengers aware or take extra health precautions was reckless and unethical.

[Va man]

I have been on at least a dozen cruises( most 12 nights or longer).  On every cruise passengers, including me, have developed a respiratory illness.  Just because some had a respiratory illness in the age of COVID-19 doesn’t mean it was a probable case.  It depends on what other symptoms the person was presenting.

 

Further, there is no proof any one key anything off of the radar. In the U S. With the exception of the that docked in Oakland, I believe all passengers were immediately flown home on commercial jets.  The only exception was the Princess ship that recently docked in Miami and the government required them to charter planes to fly people home.

 

I really wish people would only post facts and even the San Diego reporter doesn’t know what was reported.

 

The San Diego reporter also believes more than half the ship was sick.  I guarantee 1,400 people were not sick.  We don’t know how many were sick on the ship, but those posting represent well less than 1%. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Va man

[LMaxwell]

1 hour ago, Va man said:

 

 

I really wish people would only post facts  

Zaandam, Rotterdam?

[Mojogurued]

9 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Zaandam, Rotterdam?

 

That's that other line with no filter, and look where that got them?

 

Frankly, I see a lot of self-righteous ex Celebrity cruisers trying to convince us that we're wrong, that our cruise line is wrong, instead of appreciating that people got home safe. Compared to what Princess and Holland America have done, this whole experience has made many of us MORE loyal to Celebrity!

 

[In_Steerage]

Did any of you who were passengers on the Eclipse notice a strong mold smell in the Casino at the onset of the cruise (March 1)?  It was most noticeable towards the entrance coming from the atrium, but it permeated into the casino bar area.  It was bad, but somehow by the start of week #3 had all but disappeared.

In addition, on March 2nd, we were seated in the 4th floor main dining room, starboard side, about halfway back, and a couple of tables from the windows. As soon as I sat down I smelled mold - very strong,  got up, and complained to the staff.  They gave me no arguments, and immediately sat our group on the opposite side of the room further toward the aft where the air was clear.  And they seated us in this alternate area for the remainder of the cruise.

 

I've got a sensitive nose and I've had reactions on many ships to mold infested areas of the ship.  Often you'll find a corridor with a stretch of moldy smell.  It's the reason that many people are hacking by the end of a week or so of being on the ship. 

[Beachin2]

3 hours ago, Va man said:

I have been on at least a dozen cruises( most 12 nights or longer). 

 

 

You do realize that your experience is that of a junior cruiser to many on this board right?  Many of us do 30 to 60 nights each year, and have for many years.

 

Was on board, know what I saw and experienced with my own senses.  Not impressed with your "extensive" days at sea credentials.  Have old flight suits with more hours than that.

[Va man]

From all the bullying, complaining, and blaming, I couldn’t imagine it coming from experienced cruisers.

[Blackduck59]

10 minutes ago, Beachin2 said:

 

You do realize that your experience is that of a junior cruiser to many on this board right?  Many of us do 30 to 60 nights each year, and have for many years.

 

Was on board, know what I saw and experienced with my own senses.  Not impressed with your "extensive" days at sea credentials.  Have old flight suits with more hours than that.

 

You are seriously going to pull that card. So of course what you saw, or thought or feel is sooooo much more important than Va man. Someone on here once used my small post count against someone else's post count to suggest that my post held less weight or significance. Like everyone on here we all have opinions and worlds of experience in all walks of life. Everyone's opinion is just that, their opinion; no more or less valid than yours or mine just their opinion.

[RuthieC62]

My guess is that many of the people on the Eclipse are conflicted as am I. On the one hand I’m really really thankful that we were able to get off the ship and  fly home to Australia safely. On the other hand I developed symptoms and tested positive on 1st April even though I thought I must be at very low risk because of the constant “healthy ship” messages. This means that I put my travelling companions, air crew, airport lounge staff at risk and I’m horrified at the thought that I may unknowingly have put these people at risk. So the conflict is between the selfish “I’m ok and Australia is a much better place to be” and the unselfish “but what about others who were just doing their jobs - they wouldn’t have been at risk if I’d been quarantined on the ship”. It’s not a black or white situation, but people seem to be posting as if there was an aboslute right or absolute wrong course of action - it’s not that clear cut.

[Va man]

It kind of is that clear cut because we were never given the option to quarantine or even knew anyone was sick.  
 

I feel awful about possibly exposing people, but wore my mask in the airport and taxi.  I regret that I didn’t wear it on the plane, but sat with my partner.

[RuthieC62]

Yes but quarantine wouldn’t have been optional if the ship had indicated the risk of Covid-19. Following the pattern of other cruise ships they would then have had to move to a mandated quarantine and we’d probably still be on the ship. Any choice would have been taken out of our hands.

[Va man]

How do you know the ship didn’t communicate the probability of COVID-19?

 

Also, if you look at all of the other ships that came to US ports from cruises in South America, all of them had active COVID-19 cases/deaths and their passengers were not quarantined, but allowed to fly home and self quarantine.  Only the last ship to dock in Miami had to charter passengers home.

 

It is like the current policy of telling essential workers that they still have to work, even if they have known exposure to COVID-19.  It may be critical, but it puts others at risk.  Just like us.  Makes me crazy that the government isn’t limiting exposure.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

On 4/9/2020 at 3:22 PM, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Would we feel the same way if an inspirational speaker, such as Tony Robbins, continued a seminar, after learning that the current county had turned hot?  People are asking for nurses during intermission, breathing treatments, and an ambulance is called around back.  The mic gets turned up to drown out the coughing,  "Don't worry, we have had a clean hall with no virus here today, you're safe to return home."

 

 

I posed this hypothetical question yesterday, and no one took a shot at it.  In many ways, this scenario would have been a less egregious act, in that Tony Robbins would have only had an hour to make a quick decision, without lying to health officials, sending newly infected home before they turned contagious.  We're more likely to judge Celebrity and Tony Robbins differently, by how each make us feel, rather than what they actually did.

 

Still, if a Tony Robbins type character, lying to an audience, sounds disturbing, and you're still defending X, you actually have a poor view of the cruise line.  I'm seeing comments addressing Florida Spring Breakers, "But they did it first".  That excuse for bad behavior never worked in school, we got to do better than this people.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Stateroom_Sailor

[Blackduck59]

My referencing Spring breakers had nothing to do with "they did it first", the reference was that all over the United States including the highest levels of government, it was a hoax or a passing inconvenience that would pass in a couple of weeks. When it was pretty clear by events all around the world that this was NOT a hoax or a passing inconvenience. Then when it finally sank in long after other jurisdictions reacted to the looming crisis, suddenly the cruise ships were evil and the passengers could just whistle. Meanwhile the virus was spreading at a very rapid rate by airplane. By many of the very same people who dismissed the crisis just a few short weeks ago.

[In_Steerage]

Here's an Op-Ed piece by a medical doctor who was on the Eclipse:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/story/2020-04-10/coronavirus-cruise-ship-argentina

 

[yorky]

7 hours ago, Beachin2 said:

 

You do realize that your experience is that of a junior cruiser to many on this board right?  Many of us do 30 to 60 nights each year, and have for many years.

 

Was on board, know what I saw and experienced with my own senses.  Not impressed with your "extensive" days at sea credentials.  Have old flight suits with more hours than that.

Bit out of order in my view.

[yorky]

4 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

My referencing Spring breakers had nothing to do with "they did it first", the reference was that all over the United States including the highest levels of government, it was a hoax or a passing inconvenience that would pass in a couple of weeks. When it was pretty clear by events all around the world that this was NOT a hoax or a passing inconvenience. Then when it finally sank in long after other jurisdictions reacted to the looming crisis, suddenly the cruise ships were evil and the passengers could just whistle. Meanwhile the virus was spreading at a very rapid rate by airplane. By many of the very same people who dismissed the crisis just a few short weeks ago.

From what I saw on tv that’s very true. I still remember the bragging line that “ no one has died in the US” followed by a round of applause, I was amazed at that on so many levels.

Edited April 11, 2020 by yorky

[TeeRick]

3 hours ago, In_Steerage said:

Here's an Op-Ed piece by a medical doctor who was on the Eclipse:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/story/2020-04-10/coronavirus-cruise-ship-argentina

 

Interesting coming from a MD but it really adds no new perspective to this discussion unfortunately.

[paphoslady]

We had no idea that anyone had tested positive to COVID 19 until the 31st March by which tine everyone had caught their flights home except the 175 who could not get off in the US. We flew home on a chartered flight as did many others. The majority of the crew were wearing masks. We did hear people coughing on the ship but had no reason to suspect that it was the corona virus becuse we had been at sea for so long.