Azamara refund problems (merged)

[laurieb]

2 hours ago, Hamwen3839 said:

Sorry, what is BDM ?
 

Your travel agent will know 😉

[uktog]

Business Development Manager 

[babyboomerxxx]

4 hours ago, Hamwen3839 said:

Thanks Baynanno1, grateful for any suggestion. Have bypassed T.A. and sent email with all details to Azamara  direct over a week ago. Not even the courtesy of a reply.It takes a few seconds to respond even just to acknowledge .I KNOW someone from Azamara reads these posts.

Hamwen3839 - did you send email to Azamara in Australia? They did reply to me and although it was a standard “we are working on your refund” reply we received a full refund a week later - 60 days after requesting it. We did book directly through Azamara Australia though.

 

[uktog]

I know there are different card dispute rules in different countries.  I think in the UK all the card providers have to follow the same dispute procedures.  I am getting much much closer to using this route, so my question to UK guests

1.  Given that the final. cruise payment is to the travel agent, I’m assuming it’s them I name on the the dispute.  However as the bookings were onboard, deposit to Azamara I could name them instead.  (I know the recipient of a part payment can be pursued for the full amount if they are responsible for the service delivery) 

2.  Do I first have to switch with Azamara from future cruise certificate to requesting a cash refund or can I raise the dispute on the grounds the delivery of the FCC has not been satisfied within the time promised in the communications?  
 

I know I used one card provider for deposits and one for payment (typical points chaser!) I believe I can dispute through either for the full amount (in which case I will go with Amex) 

Edited June 4, 2020 by uktog

[rallydave]

4 hours ago, uktog said:

1.  Given that the final. cruise payment is to the travel agent, I’m assuming it’s them I name on the the dispute.  However as the bookings were onboard, deposit to Azamara I could name them instead.  (I know the recipient of a part payment can be pursued for the full amount if they are responsible for the service delivery) 

 

Don't believe much if any difference in disputing so to answer your above question, you disputed a charge on your credit card and not any particular company.  Unless things are really diffenrent, the process here is to go to disputes on your credit card website and then click on the charge you want to dispute.  Sounds like in your case you will need to dispute several charges and each needs to be separately disputed.  Then the credit card company files the dispute with the company that was paid the money when the charge occurred.  Don't believe you have a choise or can name or combine in disputing.  Each charge stands on it's own and again need to dispute each charge as it appears on your account as while they all go for a single cruise, each charge is a different dispute and will be settled separately..

 

4 hours ago, uktog said:

I know I used one card provider for deposits and one for payment (typical points chaser!) I believe I can dispute through either for the full amount (in which case I will go with Amex) 

Similar to my response above no credit card company will go back to the merchant, in this case Azamara for dollars paid to a different credit card company so pretty sure you cannot dispute to either like above you have to dispute each charge with each company as the other credit card company has no information on what you paid to the other.

 

For instance on a recent cruise that the refund was taking forever, we had only paid a deposit but, like typical point chasers we mad extra payments over and above the initial deposit with different cards.  In our case we had to file 4 different disputes on three different cards and each one is being processed separately.  No way to combine them as have to dispute each charge separately as no matter they are all to the same company for the same cruise but, in the credit card books, each charge is separate and needs to be investigated and refunded separately.  That has to be the same world wide.  Good luk 

[Grandma Cruising]

47 minutes ago, rallydave said:

 

Don't believe much if any difference in disputing so to answer your above question, you disputed a charge on your credit card and not any particular company.  Unless things are really diffenrent, the process here is to go to disputes on your credit card website and then click on the charge you want to dispute.  Sounds like in your case you will need to dispute several charges and each needs to be separately disputed.  Then the credit card company files the dispute with the company that was paid the money when the charge occurred.  Don't believe you have a choise or can name or combine in disputing.  Each charge stands on it's own and again need to dispute each charge as it appears on your account as while they all go for a single cruise, each charge is a different dispute and will be settled separately..

 

Similar to my response above no credit card company will go back to the merchant, in this case Azamara for dollars paid to a different credit card company so pretty sure you cannot dispute to either like above you have to dispute each charge with each company as the other credit card company has no information on what you paid to the other.

 

For instance on a recent cruise that the refund was taking forever, we had only paid a deposit but, like typical point chasers we mad extra payments over and above the initial deposit with different cards.  In our case we had to file 4 different disputes on three different cards and each one is being processed separately.  No way to combine them as have to dispute each charge separately as no matter they are all to the same company for the same cruise but, in the credit card books, each charge is separate and needs to be investigated and refunded separately.  That has to be the same world wide.  Good luk 

Just had a look at the FAQs on my Amex card and they describe a dispute of a charge as being when you see something on your card account that you don’t recognise.

[rallydave]

5 minutes ago, Grandma Cruising said:

Just had a look at the FAQs on my Amex card and they describe a dispute of a charge as being when you see something on your card account that you don’t recognise.

Yes, there are different types of disputes.  I your example that is for fraudelent charges.  In the case of UKtog and the probably thousands who have disputed their cruise refunds that dispute is for non delivered items or services and what I was discussing.

 

I can assure you I personally received almost $12,000 back from my Visa card for a dispute involving delays in delivering a refund for a cruise that was cancelled and the cruise line promised a refund.  Have also read on this boar and other boards many other people who received their refunds from their credit cards wo simply bill back the cruise line.

 

Both are valid types of disputes.  By the way have also read reports from people in the UK who have expedited their cruise refunds using the disputes process.

[uktog]

Amex definitely have to follow S75 Consumer Credit Act if there is non performance/ delivery in relation to items or services purchased using the card 

[Grandma Cruising]

19 minutes ago, uktog said:

Amex definitely have to follow S75 Consumer Credit Act if there is non performance/ delivery in relation to items or services purchased using the card 

Yes, so long as it’s over £100.  I was talking about the disputes section of Amex’s website which relates to items on your bill that you think may be fraudulent.

 

I found the Which website very good for Section 75 claims

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

You input the details and they email you a letter to send your card provider. I’ve just done it to claim back the fare for a cancelled flight that Aegean Airways are refusing to refund (only offering to rebook or give me a credit voucher).

[Lindy028]

16 minutes ago, uktog said:

Amex definitely have to follow S75 Consumer Credit Act if there is non performance/ delivery in relation to items or services purchased using the card 

Yes, you are right, as rallydave said there are different reasons for registering a dispute, and non delivery of goods and services is most definitely one. Our cruise was the first Azamara cancelled on 10th March and we have heard nothing apart from confirmation of the 25% FCC we were given as compensation. We have had hardly any help from our TA, so we eventually did a chargeback on our Amex card. Just find the payments on your relevant statements, click on the amount to be disputed, a box comes up, at the bottom, it says ‘have a question about this charge’ in blue, click on this and it takes you to a box which says ‘Hi, Mrs ?, we are happy to review this this charge for you, then click continue .

You can if you prefer telephone them, we have always found them very helpful. Hope that helps.

[rallydave]

4 minutes ago, Grandma Cruising said:

Yes, so long as it’s over £100.  I was talking about the disputes section of Amex’s website which relates to items on your bill that you think may be fraudulent.

 

I found the Which website very good for Section 75 claims

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

You input the details and they email you a letter to send your card provider. I’ve just done it to claim back the fare for a cancelled flight that Aegean Airways are refusing to refund (only offering to rebook or give me a credit voucher).

While I've learned a lot about the Section 75 claim from you and others, think you might have a problem applying that to a vacation where one splits the charges to different credit card.since the Section 75 applies to the entire package and splitting the charges to different credit cards would seem to break up the full vacation as it appears only applies to full vacations including air and accommodations.

 

Am pretty sure no credit card is going to dispute charges not charged to their card as no privity of contract between the two or more credit card companies so in uktod's case she split the charges to more than one card Section 75 may not apply and if it does would still require the section 75 letter be sent to both credit card companies setting up two separate disputes.

 

While I too split charges to different credit cards to get the card promotions, it does create confusion if cancellations come up or have to dispute charges among more than one credit card company.

[Grandma Cruising]

Yes, I agree it makes it less straightforward. However uktog could tell each card provider that she is making one/other claims & give them the details. After all, she is claiming from each card provider the money that was charged to that provider.

[uktog]

I have discovered the position is that I have to progress based on one card issuer only even if the deposit it with one and the balance another, thanks for all the comments on this.  If Azamara does not deliver on its promise by the end of the week, I will follow that route and will do the chargeback on the deposits only which are all through Azamara (although billed on my card to Celebrity).  Part of the reason for my selecting  this option is that all the chargebacks will be with one credit card company.

Edited June 4, 2020 by uktog

[uktog]

39 minutes ago, Lindy028 said:

Yes, you are right, as rallydave said there are different reasons for registering a dispute, and non delivery of goods and services is most definitely one. Our cruise was the first Azamara cancelled on 10th March and we have heard nothing apart from confirmation of the 25% FCC we were given as compensation. We have had hardly any help from our TA, so we eventually did a chargeback on our Amex card. Just find the payments on your relevant statements, click on the amount to be disputed, a box comes up, at the bottom, it says ‘have a question about this charge’ in blue, click on this and it takes you to a box which says ‘Hi, Mrs ?, we are happy to review this this charge for you, then click continue .

You can if you prefer telephone them, we have always found them very helpful. Hope that helps.

Thanks thats such good advice and it will be Amex I will do chargeback with as it is such a straightforward process

[Grandma Cruising]

57 minutes ago, Lindy028 said:

Yes, you are right, as rallydave said there are different reasons for registering a dispute, and non delivery of goods and services is most definitely one. Our cruise was the first Azamara cancelled on 10th March and we have heard nothing apart from confirmation of the 25% FCC we were given as compensation. We have had hardly any help from our TA, so we eventually did a chargeback on our Amex card. Just find the payments on your relevant statements, click on the amount to be disputed, a box comes up, at the bottom, it says ‘have a question about this charge’ in blue, click on this and it takes you to a box which says ‘Hi, Mrs ?, we are happy to review this this charge for you, then click continue .

You can if you prefer telephone them, we have always found them very helpful. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the information, Lindy028. Good to know that you can use the same process with Amex for disputes of all sorts - this isn’t at all clear on their website. I’ll use this for my claim for my Aegean flight refund.

[Wheelhouse]

My problem with Azamara is that I have not received a promised FCC.  Through a large online TA my early March agreement was to receive a 50% refund and a 50% FCC.  The refund was received about 6 weeks ago but the FCC is still outstanding.  Azamara does not respond to customer service messaging and the TA has not responded after a good period to my last inquiry.  I am thinking of doing a credit card charge back for the remaining FCC as I most likely will not be traveling again in the future with any RCCL line.  If they had provided the FCC timely as promised and documented we probably would have rebooked already for next summer.  Is the a good strategy?  I figure it might at least get Azamara's attention.

[Grandma Cruising]

Tried using the Amex online dispute process to get a refund for my Aegean flight, but it didn’t work for me, so I rang Amex. The customer services person said she would put a chargeback & Section 75 claim at the same time. She told me it could take up to 8 weeks to resolve.

[uktog]

6 minutes ago, Wheelhouse said:

My problem with Azamara is that I have not received a promised FCC.  Through a large online TA my early March agreement was to receive a 50% refund and a 50% FCC.  The refund was received about 6 weeks ago but the FCC is still outstanding.  Azamara does not respond to customer service messaging and the TA has not responded after a good period to my last inquiry.  I am thinking of doing a credit card charge back for the remaining FCC as I most likely will not be traveling again in the future with any RCCL line.  If they had provided the FCC timely as promised and documented we probably would have rebooked already for next summer.  Is the a good strategy?  I figure it might at least get Azamara's attention.

I can understand why you are doing that - its so illogical that the FCCs are not being issued.  How to alienate guests who actually  were planning to come back.  What millennial thought that would be a good idea!!

I think its a good strategy and hopefully you can get a result

[blag]

8 hours ago, uktog said:

I know there are different card dispute rules in different countries.  I think in the UK all the card providers have to follow the same dispute procedures.  I am getting much much closer to using this route, so my question to UK guests

1.  Given that the final. cruise payment is to the travel agent, I’m assuming it’s them I name on the the dispute.  However as the bookings were onboard, deposit to Azamara I could name them instead.  (I know the recipient of a part payment can be pursued for the full amount if they are responsible for the service delivery) 

2.  Do I first have to switch with Azamara from future cruise certificate to requesting a cash refund or can I raise the dispute on the grounds the delivery of the FCC has not been satisfied within the time promised in the communications?  
 

I know I used one card provider for deposits and one for payment (typical points chaser!) I believe I can dispute through either for the full amount (in which case I will go with Amex) 

As I understand things you cannot dispute a charge on your Credit Card with any party other than that which is specified in your Credit Card statement. So, in our case, even though we use a TA, the CC statement identifies our final i.e. balance payment as having been made to Celebrity (not Azamara). If I was to raise a dispute, it would have to be with Celebrity. 

 

It may well be that the deposit was paid to another company, organisation etc., or, indeed, possibly, Celebrity again. Irrespective, that would constitute another, separate, dispute. The fact that they are for the same cruise is irrelevant: they are separate transactions. 

 

Hope this clarifies matters. 

[uktog]

Thanks Blag, that was what I was hearing as well - so raising a S75 in respect of the deposit which was processed in the name of Celebrity is actually easier than the cruise booking agency I used.  But as I say I won't be doing it until next week, that will then be over two weeks after the date Azamara promised the FCC online, an entry that still stays on their website today

[Fairgarth]

9 hours ago, uktog said:

 

1.  Given that the final. cruise payment is to the travel agent, I’m assuming it’s them I name on the the dispute.

 

Could be wrong but I doubt it.  My understanding is that the agent acts simply as an agent i.e. they never took title to the goods and re-sold them.   Not like a shoe store.  They have no contract with a credit card bank and cannot accept payment in their own name.  They have never, ever had your cash.  They get paid a commission by the cruise line after VISA has billed you.  (I'm guessing again, but I assume that when Azamara refunds you in full, they reclaim commission from the agent.)  Your card statement should show the billing from 'Azamara'.  If it actually shows 'ABC agent', then that's different.  So there is no point in going after the agent.  They don't have your cash and never did.

[uktog]

1 minute ago, Fairgarth said:

 

Could be wrong but I doubt it.  My understanding is that the agent acts simply as an agent i.e. they never took title to the goods and re-sold them.   Not like a shoe store.  They have no contract with a credit card bank and cannot accept payment in their own name.  They have never, ever had your cash.  They get paid a commission by the cruise line after VISA has billed you.  (I'm guessing again, but I assume that when Azamara refunds you in full, they reclaim commission from the agent.)  Your card statement should show the billing from 'Azamara'.  If it actually shows 'ABC agent', then that's different.  So there is no point in going after the agent.  They don't have your cash and never did.

For the balance payment it shows "cruise booking agent I used" not the cruise line.  I am having an interesting issue with the agency relating to another booking for late summer as it appears they operate as an agent of an agent of the provider.  Hence when the provider says we will do x for guests who cannot travel, the agency is saying no we will only do y.  (Anyway thats a distraction, as is common in the UK the booking payment shows the name of the travel agency not the cruise line)

[Mackdogmolly]

Is anyone having difficulty with ChoiceAir refunds as well? I was promised (repeatedly) a refund within 45 days and when I called today (day 46), I was told it might possibly be another 45 more. I was prepared to book additional flights for a future cruise too, but obviously not until my refund is settled.

[excitedofharpenden]

uktog, I hope you are able to get some resolution in whatever way. You've been given the run around by Azamara with promises of dates that come and go.  It really is not good to be treated this way and quite understand why you would walk. A shame with such a loyal customer you have been. 

 

Phil 

[Mackdogmolly]

12 minutes ago, excitedofharpenden said:

uktog, I hope you are able to get some resolution in whatever way. You've been given the run around by Azamara with promises of dates that come and go.  It really is not good to be treated this way and quite understand why you would walk. A shame with such a loyal customer you have been. 

 

Phil 

Quite agree