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Cancellation fee charged by travel agency


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21 minutes ago, RETNAVY1996 said:

This is one of those threads where I wish Travel Agents could say they were TA’s.  Would be real interesting comparing statements by TA’s and non-TA’s.  I know for a fact at least one of the people answering that it’s fine for the TA to keep the money is.

What makes you think a TA on this board can’t identify themselves as one?

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40 minutes ago, RETNAVY1996 said:

This is one of those threads where I wish Travel Agents could say they were TA’s.  Would be real interesting comparing statements by TA’s and non-TA’s.  I know for a fact at least one of the people answering that it’s fine for the TA to keep the money is.

TA can say they are TAs here.  They just can't give their agency name or any other information that people can use to contact them.

 

ourusualbeach is a TA and has given valuable information.  There is at least one other that have also identified as a TA.  I imagine there are others.

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4 hours ago, firefox247 said:

 

Not disagreeing with you (all the student debt forgiveness folks seem to have forgotten that signing contracts matter), but my TA definitely doesn't spend hours doing anything. I call with a sailing, they give me a perk package, I book, we are done. 

 

I'm sure that TAs exist like you talk about, but at least with the TAs that I use, that has never been my experience. 

 

3 hours ago, RETNAVY1996 said:

This is one of those threads where I wish Travel Agents could say they were TA’s.  Would be real interesting comparing statements by TA’s and non-TA’s.  I know for a fact at least one of the people answering that it’s fine for the TA to keep the money is.

For the record, I’m not a travel agent. I don’t work in the travel industry, and I don’t even use a travel agent myself. However I do know a lot about business and the value of time. 
 

There is one travel agent on here that I know of, @Ourusualbeach, but he’s been very open that he’s a travel agent, and has been on here answering people’s questions for years - - - FOR FREE even. 
 

I realize that it may seem like travel agents don’t spend any time working on your booking, but that’s because they’ve done all the work before. From my own experience of researching vacations for my family, I know it can sometimes take an entire year for me to figure out the logistics of where to stay, what activities to do, how to get around, where to eat, sights to see, etc. The one time I did use a travel agent (16 years ago), she was able to give me the run down of all those items in less than an hour. That doesn’t mean her time was only worth 1 hour. Her time was worth the 1 year it would have taken me to learn all that stuff, and however long it too her to learn so she could save me the time. 

As for the agency itself, someone had to take time to set up the business, investing money and time into developing relationships with resorts and other travel related industries. They had to open an office, pay people, invest in software and computer systems. The list goes on. 

 

I don’t think people think about all that stuff  when they complain that travel agents shouldn’t keep any cancellation fees. 
 

Here’s another example, but unrelated to travel. An accountant spends years in school, studies for special licensing tests, invests in computers and software etc in order to do people’s taxes. Someone comes in with a stack of receipts and 1099’s and asks the accountant to sort it out for them, and maybe help them find some creative tax loopholes. The accountant spends many hours, or days, or weeks even, sorting through all that stuff. Then finds out the person doesn’t owe any taxes, so the person doesn’t want to pay the accountant. Is that fair?

 

Or how about the wedding planner who spends a year planning a wedding, putting in 80 or 100 hours, only to have the wedding postponed or cancelled due to coronavirus, and now the bride doesn’t want to pay the wedding planner because they didn’t get to have the wedding. I actually know someone who this is happening to right now. She did all the work already, but the bride thinks she shouldn’t have to pay even though there’s a contract in place saying she does. Should the wedding planner also not get paid? 
 

Come on you guys. People have to understand the basics of paying for people’s time and expertise. 

Edited by ARandomTraveler
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6 hours ago, sockmonkeygirl said:

Ok, now I'm pissed.  I recall "$500 non refundable cancellation fee" when I booked with an online Travel (you know the one) service.   If RCI cancels my cruise on May 30th, do I not get that money back? 😵  

Uhhhhh yeah! If you signed a contract saying that you owe them regardless of whether the cruise was cancelled or not, then absolutely. Did you read the contract to see if there was any further explanation to when that fee might be waived or not, or did you just mindlessly sign it because you liked the deal you were getting and “didn’t think you’d have a problem?” Why do so many people keep signing their names on all this non-refundable, high cancellation fee s - - t? 
 

I look at the refundable price and consider that the real price. The non-refundable price is the gamble price. 

Edited by ARandomTraveler
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35 minutes ago, ARandomTraveler said:

 

For the record, I’m not a travel agent. I don’t work in the travel industry, and I don’t even use a travel agent myself. However I do know a lot about business and the value of time. 
 

There is one travel agent on here that I know of, @Ourusualbeach, but he’s been very open that he’s a travel agent, and has been on here answering people’s questions for years - - - FOR FREE even. 
 

I realize that it may seem like travel agents don’t spend any time working on your booking, but that’s because they’ve done all the work before. From my own experience of researching vacations for my family, I know it can sometimes take an entire year for me to figure out the logistics of where to stay, what activities to do, how to get around, where to eat, sights to see, etc. The one time I did use a travel agent (16 years ago), she was able to give me the run down of all those items in less than an hour. That doesn’t mean her time was only worth 1 hour. Her time was worth the 1 year it would have taken me to learn all that stuff, and however long it too her to learn so she could save me the time. 

As for the agency itself, someone had to take time to set up the business, investing money and time into developing relationships with resorts and other travel related industries. They had to open an office, pay people, invest in software and computer systems. The list goes on. 

 

I don’t think people think about all that stuff  when they complain that travel agents shouldn’t keep any cancellation fees. 
 

Here’s another example, but unrelated to travel. An accountant spends years in school, studies for special licensing tests, invests in computers and software etc in order to do people’s taxes. Someone comes in with a stack of receipts and 1099’s and asks the accountant to sort it out for them, and maybe help them find some creative tax loopholes. The accountant spends many hours, or days, or weeks even, sorting through all that stuff. Then finds out the person doesn’t owe any taxes, so the person doesn’t want to pay the accountant. Is that fair?

 

Or how about the wedding planner who spends a year planning a wedding, putting in 80 or 100 hours, only to have the wedding postponed or cancelled due to coronavirus, and now the bride doesn’t want to pay the wedding planner because they didn’t get to have the wedding. I actually know someone who this is happening to right now. She did all the work already, but the bride thinks she shouldn’t have to pay even though there’s a contract in place saying she does. Should the wedding planner also not get paid? 
 

Come on you guys. People have to understand the basics of paying for people’s time and expertise. 

However, for the sake of argument.  In this case, the cruise line, has paid the TA their full commission on the cancelled sailing, so in reality there is no un compensated "billable hours" that the cancellation fee needs to cover; so isn't it just greedy to charge it?

 

Just playing devils advocate

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38 minutes ago, ARandomTraveler said:

she was able to give me the run down of all those items in less than an hour. That doesn’t mean her time was only worth 1 hour. Her time was worth the 1 year it would have taken me to learn all that stuff, and however long it too her to learn so she could save me the time.

That's like calling the plumber to fix something and you get handed a bill for $100 for 10 minutes work.  It's the 20 years of experience that allowed him to know what was the matter and fix it in 10 minutes.

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13 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

However, for the sake of argument.  In this case, the cruise line, has paid the TA their full commission on the cancelled sailing, so in reality there is no un compensated "billable hours" that the cancellation fee needs to cover; so isn't it just greedy to charge it?

 

Just playing devils advocate

I understand this argument many are making, and I fully agree that it’s an ethical argument. But it isn’t a legal one. If the travel agency did not put in their contract that they would waive their own cancellation fees in the event that the cruiseline paid them their commission, then people can stomp their feet all they want and say it’s not fair, but it isn’t illegal. 
 

The agency may be paying the individual travel agent that commission check, but the agency itself needs to cover their fees as well. That may be what those other fees are for. Who knows.

Edited by ARandomTraveler
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1 hour ago, ARandomTraveler said:

I realize that it may seem like travel agents don’t spend any time working on your booking, but that’s because they’ve done all the work before. From my own experience of researching vacations for my family, I know it can sometimes take an entire year for me to figure out the logistics of where to stay, what activities to do, how to get around, where to eat, sights to see, etc. The one time I did use a travel agent (16 years ago), she was able to give me the run down of all those items in less than an hour. That doesn’t mean her time was only worth 1 hour. Her time was worth the 1 year it would have taken me to learn all that stuff, and however long it too her to learn so she could save me the time.  

 

Again, I'm going to repeat that my agent does none of that.  I use an online TA (a few of them), and they all do business by high volume and razor-thin margins by offering a lot of perks.  None of them are in the business of high-touch, all-inclusive vacation planning.  In fact, most times I have already booked with Royal directly, and I'm simply transferring my booking to a TA.  Time outlay on their part is minimal.  There isn't some secret back-end process that takes them hours and hours, nor am I asking them to give me a comprehensive rundown of every port we are going to or something like that.

 

1 hour ago, ARandomTraveler said:

Here’s another example, but unrelated to travel. An accountant spends years in school, studies for special licensing tests, invests in computers and software etc in order to do people’s taxes. Someone comes in with a stack of receipts and 1099’s and asks the accountant to sort it out for them, and maybe help them find some creative tax loopholes. The accountant spends many hours, or days, or weeks even, sorting through all that stuff. Then finds out the person doesn’t owe any taxes, so the person doesn’t want to pay the accountant. Is that fair?

 

No, but that also isn't what is happening here.  In your example, they both agreed on a price of X dollars, but the person did not want to pay after the work was complete, so the accountant is out money.  In the TA's case, they are double-dipping.

 

1 hour ago, ARandomTraveler said:

Or how about the wedding planner who spends a year planning a wedding, putting in 80 or 100 hours, only to have the wedding postponed or cancelled due to coronavirus, and now the bride doesn’t want to pay the wedding planner because they didn’t get to have the wedding. I actually know someone who this is happening to right now. She did all the work already, but the bride thinks she shouldn’t have to pay even though there’s a contract in place saying she does. Should the wedding planner also not get paid? 

 

Again, that isn't what is happening here.  The reason the wedding planner deserves to get paid is they put in the time, and that is their only way they are going to get compensated.  If they do not collect a fee, they are out money.

 

1 hour ago, ARandomTraveler said:

Come on you guys. People have to understand the basics of paying for people’s time and expertise. 

 

The reason a TA charges a cancellation fee is so they can be made whole for the time spent managing your booking when they aren't going to be getting a commission from Royal.  This is the same as restocking fees and such in other industries when they are no longer making a profit on something you returned.

 

At the time of the booking, the TA was completely fine collecting "X" commission or getting "Y" cancellation fee.  They decided that either way was justified compensation.  However, once Royal agreed to pay commission even if the booking were cancelled (and pay commission on FCCs), then that changes the calculus.  Now the TA is simply double-dipping by collecting "X" commission and "Y" cancellation fee.  They are making more money off the back of their client than if the client went on the cruise in the first place.

 

No one is debating that they can do it from a legal perspective, but it is pretty clear what is going on here:  The TA is banking on the client not knowing that Royal is still giving them their commission, and they are hoping they can double-collect, even if the charge is no longer justified.  To me, it's slimy behavior, and it should not be rewarded with repeat business, but that is for each person to decide.

 

The TA is being made "whole" by Royal.  They are just collecting more from the client because they can.  Comparing this to other examples where the entity has no other option to be made whole is silly.

Edited by firefox247
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15 minutes ago, firefox247 said:

No one is debating that they can do it from a legal perspective, but it is pretty clear what is going on here:  The TA is banking on the client not knowing that Royal is still giving them their commission, and they are hoping they can double collect, even if the charge is no longer justified.  To me, it's slimy behavior, and it should not be rewarded with repeat business, but that is for each person to decide.

 

The TA is being made "whole" by Royal.  They are just collecting more from the client because they can.  Comparing this to other examples where the entity has no other option to be made whole is silly.


You’re probably right about a lot of this. I bet customers who aren’t reading cruise critic have no idea they’re getting paid, and will be none the wiser. I also agree the agency MAY be capitalizing on the ability to double-dip...maybe. Since I can’t see the contracts people signed, I don’t know how detailed they are in explaining what happens in the event that they get paid commission even if the cruise is cancelled. A lot depends on that. It may be slimy, and it may be reason for people not to give them business in the future, but there’s also a possibility that the contract people signed allowed for this, and people ignored it and signed it anyway. I don’t know.

 

I do know that the majority of US citizens can buy insurance that would reimburse them these fees. And I can assume that the majority of people who are complaining obviously didn’t buy it because if they did, they wouldn’t be out any money. 
 
You keep saying that your online agent didn’t do anything for you. But there was a reason you used them instead of booking directly, and it was likely because they gave you a better deal or an extra perk. In order for the online agent to provide those perks, they went through some sort of negotiations or took on some financial risk in order to be able to provide it. That’s worth money just like another agent’s expertise and time is worth money. And guess what - you just paid for it. 

Edited by ARandomTraveler
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3 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

That's like calling the plumber to fix something and you get handed a bill for $100 for 10 minutes work.  It's the 20 years of experience that allowed him to know what was the matter and fix it in 10 minutes.

I recently had a washing machine stop working.  Called a local mobile repair guy.  He came and fixed it in less than 5 minutes.  I gladly paid him $84.00. I paid for his expertise.  I regularly pay my Chiropractor $50.00 for 5-7 minuets work.  If I don't show up for a scheduled appt. I expect the fee associated with that. Time is money.  Expertise has value.  People who think their TA does nothing more than take an order either ought find a new TA or not complain when fees associated with their booking are charged.

 

I've got a great TA

🙂 

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On 4/1/2020 at 8:41 AM, sparkly122 said:

 

I just cancelled my August 2020 cruise under the cruise with confidence program. It was a refundable reservation.

 

After cancellation, I get whatever I paid minus 24.99 service fee minus 100 cancellation charge. The entire 124.99 went to the travel agency.

 

This doesn’t sound right to me. If I were to book through RCCL, I could’ve saved 124.99.

 

On a side note, the total payment for the cancelled cruise was around 3300. The same cruise with almost identical itinerary costs around 5500 for the month sailing 2021...don’t think I will cruise for a very long time.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 


 

I use the same TA, and the $100 cancellation fee will be deducted next time you book with them within a year or something of the sort.

Their bookings are cheaper than with RCCL, I agree, plus I got some OBC not offered by the cruise line.

The TA agent mentioned it before I made the booking and made sure I understood the penalties involved aside from what the cruise lines charge.

Edited by nemesees
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Not surprised about the $100 which lines up with NRD fees.  The other fee I could live with, IF my TA has historically done a great job.  Typically as noted if you develop a relationship with a TA it goes both ways.  They know there is no money right now, long term there will be again.  In Canada the independent contractor can collect Employment Insurance or other programs currently being offered by our Gov’t.  
 

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Many of you are still not getting it.

 

This not about the ONLY compensation for work.

 

This about two possible compensations, and the TA taking BOTH.


This is more like a company charging a fee for an estimate in case you do not book the job with them.  But later, even if you book the work with them, charging for the estimate.  

 

They are getting compensated twice.

 

No one says that TAs should not be compensated for their time and effort.  But being paid twice due to a change in the rules, is pure greed.

 

 

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11 hours ago, CanadaRob said:

In Canada the independent contractor can collect Employment Insurance or other programs currently being offered by our Gov’t.  

It depends.  If they worked on an hourly basis and were laid off then they could claim.  If they receive commission and are still working doing future bookings they can’t.  The CERB leaves a whole lot of people ineligible. In order to claim CERB you cannot have any income or be working at all.

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9 minutes ago, SRF said:

They are getting compensated twice.

 

No one says that TAs should not be compensated for their time and effort.  But being paid twice due to a change in the rules, is pure greed.

The thing is, some of those TAs, like some on this board, may think RCI will go under and they'll never see that commission from those FCC booked sailings so they rather take the cancellation money now - like RCI, they may have immediate cash flow problems.

Edited by Biker19
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7 hours ago, Biker19 said:

like RCI, they may have immediate cash flow problems.

Royal doesn’t pay commission until after the ship sails.  Since they guaranteed commissions on everything after final payment TA’s shouldn’t see cash flow issues from cruises for 90 days.  It’s the bookings from July through the end of the year that are being cancelled that will hurt TA’s 

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48 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Royal doesn’t pay commission until after the ship sails.  Since they guaranteed commissions on everything after final payment TA’s shouldn’t see cash flow issues from cruises for 90 days.  It’s the bookings from July through the end of the year that are being cancelled that will hurt TA’s 

And when you factor that in with the complete collapse of all the land bookings scheduled to travel from mid-March until XXX date, which are not commission protected, that's a pretty deep cut.

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4 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Royal doesn’t pay commission until after the ship sails.  Since they guaranteed commissions on everything after final payment TA’s shouldn’t see cash flow issues from cruises for 90 days.  It’s the bookings from July through the end of the year that are being cancelled that will hurt TA’s 

Here's a question that I have been pondering.  I believe it was you that mentioned that TA's were getting commission on both the cruise that royal cancelled and the subsequent cruise that folks book using the FCC they are given for cancelled cruises. Would it be beneficial if it was possible for customers to book sooner rather that later with the FCC so as to give the TA a boost during what would likely be a big drop in income during the short term?  The likelihood of further cancellations would give the FCC back the customer but the TA would get double commission during a very difficult time?   

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9 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

Here's a question that I have been pondering.  I believe it was you that mentioned that TA's were getting commission on both the cruise that royal cancelled and the subsequent cruise that folks book using the FCC they are given for cancelled cruises. Would it be beneficial if it was possible for customers to book sooner rather that later with the FCC so as to give the TA a boost during what would likely be a big drop in income during the short term?  The likelihood of further cancellations would give the FCC back the customer but the TA would get double commission during a very difficult time?   

Commission only gets paid after the ship sails so if the client books a cruise for Oct 2021 the TA won’t receive any income on the FCC and rebooked cruise   until 2021.  

Edited by Ourusualbeach
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43 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Commission only gets paid after the ship sails so if the client books a cruise for Oct 2021 the TA won’t receive any income on the FCC and rebooked cruise   until 2021.  

Since when did that start? Back in the day (5 years ago), I was always sent my commission as soon as the booking was paid and the final date went by

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10 minutes ago, cruisinfanatic said:

Since when did that start? Back in the day (5 years ago), I was always sent my commission as soon as the booking was paid and the final date went by

Not sure when and not sure If all lines are the same but I think in the last couple years.  Saves on a lot of recalled commission of client cancels but still in a penalty phase. 

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8 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Not sure when and not sure If all lines are the same but I think in the last couple years.  Saves on a lot of recalled commission of client cancels but still in a penalty phase. 

I was charged $100 for a cancellation fee by my TA. I called them and they sent out an email with a $100 credit on my next trip with them. That's good enough for me. Give them a call and see if that works for you.

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