Oceania Refunds - Has anyone actually received any cash yet?

[Paulchili]

3 hours ago, LHT28 said:

I would never  let the TA  charge my account their agency  but  as I say things work differently in the UK

Hopefully someone  in the UK will give their opinion

!00% agree here in NA

I give my CC number to my TA but he/she makes the charge directly to Oceania, not to their agency.

Years ago there was a huge scandal with a TA doing this and then disappearing with all the money. I remember a Silversea passenger lost $60K that way.

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, Paulchili said:

!00% agree here in NA

I give my CC number to my TA but he/she makes the charge directly to Oceania, not to their agency.

Years ago there was a huge scandal with a TA doing this and then disappearing with all the money. I remember a Silversea passenger lost $60K that way.

In N.A. that would be  a big red flag  to RUN from that TA  😲

 

 In the UK  is seems to be common practice  to pay the TA  & they in turn pay the cruise line or other suppliers  for trip

[RJB]

On 5/7/2020 at 3:24 PM, Pster55 said:

I started this board thread....now 60 days after my initial refund for monies paid to Oceania for tours, etc. Still waiting........

 

Note: Cruise Critic encourages TA's and even employees of the cruise lines to participate in these boards....read the rules....no problem. However,  where I believe Cruise Critic falls short is that there is no requirement that TA's and Cruise Line Employees specifically identify themselves to other board members as "biased" posters. There are some that are easily identified....never, ever a negative word about cruising....pretty easy to spot. Cruise Critic should really require "agents" of the cruise lines to identify themselves as such to make this a much more transparent discussion.

+1

[jo-b]

12 hours ago, LHT28 said:

In N.A. that would be  a big red flag  to RUN from that TA  😲

 

 In the UK  is seems to be common practice  to pay the TA  & they in turn pay the cruise line or other suppliers  for trip

 

No it isn't common practice.

 

I "pay" the TA by giving them the CC details but the CC bill reads Oceania cruises and it is them I am still waiting to reimburse me! 

 

Occasionally for a particularly hefty bill I have paid theTA over 2/3 payments as my CC will not allow for a credit balance. 

 

[LHT28]

9 minutes ago, jo-b said:

 

No it isn't common practice.

 

I "pay" the TA by giving them the CC details but the CC bill reads Oceania cruises and it is them I am still waiting to reimburse me! 

 

Occasionally for a particularly hefty bill I have paid theTA over 2/3 payments as my CC will not allow for a credit balance. 

 

You are the smart one

 I have read on other forums about people paying  Cash/Debit to a TA   for trips  then when something like this happens  they have to wait  for the TA  to reimburse  them

To me  is seems  that many go that route than pay by CC to the cruise line

Just  saying  what I have read on other forums from people in the UK

 

 When my payment is more that my CC limit  I just put a payment on my CC before the TA is going to put my final payment on the card   or we can ask for the credit limit to be raised  for that month

We  do not book trips unless the money is in the bank 

YMMV

 

[LHT28]

On 5/7/2020 at 4:59 PM, Pster55 said:

Yes, as I stated in my post...there are rules for their participation - I never said there weren't. But I see nothing that says TA's or Cruise Line Employees must identify themselves as such. Please let me know if I am incorrect on  this point. My comment has nothing to do with thier limitations of advertising, etc. - I could care less. What I am interested in is knowing which posts might well be biased..for obvious reasons.

At one time  a couple of   Oceania  employees posted here  & it was noted  in there I.D.

  that they worked for  Oceania

 I remember  years ago when FDR first  posted  & people did not believe  he was the CEO  of the line

as he stated   😉

I miss his  interaction here

 

TA's on the other hand are not allowed to post  they are TA's   they can mention it in their signature   according to the guidelines  but I know   if  mention you  are  a TA   they will give you  a "time out"  😎

[Pster55]

As I surmised.....TA's and Cruise Line employees can in fact post to the boards and simply not identity themselves as such. This is why I remain so sketpical of much of what I read on the boards. Much of it, frankly, sounds like excessive and over arching defense of cruise lines taking FOREVER to "process" refunds. Folks, it ain't that hard to do! Taking 90 days to process refunds is "funny business" and simply unbelievable. Now I can sit back and wait for the apologists to weigh in......

[LHT28]

44 minutes ago, Pster55 said:

As I surmised.....TA's and Cruise Line employees can in fact post to the boards and simply not identity themselves as such. This is why I remain so sketpical of much of what I read on the boards.

You are entitled to your opinion

 

There  is not  a conspiracy  behind  every post 🙄

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Pster55 said:

 This is why I remain so sketpical of much of what I read on the boards.....

.....Now I can sit back and wait for the apologists to weigh in......

While I'm not "apologizing" for any cruise line's behaviors, and with some airline refunds in various locations throughout "the ether," I do try to put things in perspective.

 

In the case of Oceania, we were fortunate to be at the beginning of the refund line with a greatly modified February cruise headed to Singapore and two current ATW segments (we would've been on right now).

 

From a reliable source, the number of passenger accounts needing to be adjusted in early March approached 30,000 and much of that "handling" was done by O employees increasingly working from home. That said, we were fortunate to get all of our expected O refunds in less than 10 days along with reasonable FCCs.

However, as each new wave of itineraries have been deleted, common sense dictates that the work has had to pile up in this unprecedented situation.

 

So, should we be patient? Yes and No.

As aforementioned, I've got two outstanding airline refunds in the works. With one, where I received an approval a day after I cancelled in February, I still have seen no $$$. That one I've already disputed with my CC issuer (for which I've already gotten the temporary credit pending response by the airline). For the other, the airline has sent the refund to our pre-cruise Safari vendor who has promised to wire me the funds once they're "back in the office" in Toronto. In all honesty, while I'll cut them some slack (perhaps until June 1), I am prepared to dispute that unpaid refund with the CC issuer I used for the Safari package purchase.

Bottom line here is that there are all sorts of individual circumstances affecting refunds right now and I am convinced that much of O's recent time delay in refunding is truly related to their staff being overwhelmed.

 

BUT, as regards not believing what I read on CC, my concern lately is more with the posts being made, or replied to, by folks who just "don't have a clue" (often despite a long history of cruising and CC participation), are unwilling to do any searching first (as recommended by the CC editors), constantly spew misinformation and/or whose posts often go off on tangents unrelated to the  thread's original direction (this last one having at least one particular offender at a time when all the Covid-19 cruise affecting info really needs to take center stage).

 

Of course, it is a public forum. So, it is what it is. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Flatbush Flyer

[Pster55]

13 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

While I'm not "apologizing" for any cruise line's behaviors, and with some airline refunds in various locations throughout "the ether," I do try to put things in perspective.

In the case of Oceania, we were fortunate to be at the beginning of the refund line with a greatly modified February cruise headed to Singapore and two current ATW segments (we would've been on right now.

From a reliable source, the number of passenger accounts needing to be adjusted in early March approached 30,000 and much of that "handling" was done by O employees increasinglybeorking from home. That said, we were fortunate to get all of our expected O refunds in less than 10 days along with reasonable FCCs.

As each new wave of itineraries have been deleted, the work has had to pile up in this unprecedented situation.

So, should we be patient? Yes and No.

As aforementioned, I've got two outstanding airline refunds in the works. With one, where I received an approval a day after I cancelled in February, I still have seen no $$$. That one I've already disputed with my CC issuer (for which I've already gotten the temporary credit pending response by the airline). For the other, the airline has sent the refund to our pre-cruise Safari vendor who has promised to wire me the funds once they're "back in the office" in Toronto. In all honesty, while I'll cut them some slack (perhaps until June 1), I am prepared to dispute that unpaid refund with the CC issuer I used for the Safari package purchase.

Bottom line is that there are all sorts of individual circumstances affecting refunds right now and I am convinced that much of O's recent time delay in refunding is truly related to their staff being overwhelmed.

I doubt I will ever cruise again after this experience.....but if I do, the industry is going to have to change the way it accounts for pre-payments/deposits. There must be third party escrow management.....that is a dead solid certainty. The risk of conversion - using one's deposit to pay other current expenses - MUST be eliminated. That is a minimum requirement for me to cruise. 

[Pster55]

48 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

You are entitled to your opinion

 

There  is not  a conspiracy  behind  every post 🙄

Yes, I am. But I can say with conviction I am not a TA or Cruise Line employee....and I will. 

[pingpong1]

1 hour ago, Pster55 said:

As I surmised.....TA's and Cruise Line employees can in fact post to the boards and simply not identity themselves as such. This is why I remain so sketpical of much of what I read on the boards. Much of it, frankly, sounds like excessive and over arching defense of cruise lines taking FOREVER to "process" refunds. Folks, it ain't that hard to do! Taking 90 days to process refunds is "funny business" and simply unbelievable. Now I can sit back and wait for the apologists to weigh in......

With utmost respect for your opinion, I would have to say that you're approaching the whole subject of refunds quite differently than the way I'm looking at it.  I'm not apologizing, defending, or trying to "protect" the cruise lines for these refund "delays".  But I'm also not blaming them for what you're characterizing as an  "unreasonable delay" in processing refunds, either.  It is neither case.  They are currently doing exactly what they're setting out to do (and what employees have been instructed to do by their managers) - Looking out for the companies business interests and protecting their financial health, to maximum extent that they're able to do.  This is what any responsible business (or industry) would do in such uncertain times.

 

You seem to be thinking that the cruise lines are either "wanting and striving" to refund your money as soon as humanely possible, and that it's simply not happening due to some sort of "in-house incompetence" or "lack of motivation" on their part. OR Conversely, if "incompetence" or some systematic "breakdown" isn't the cause for the delay.... then it must be due to some form of "corporate malfeasance" or "illegality" happening on their part.  In actual fact, it's neither of those scenarios!

 

With so much financial uncertainly, unknown future demand and expenses, and tenuous ongoing medical risks (for the industry) at the moment, they are simply preserving as much cash on hand as they can, and not refunding it back to customers or claimants any sooner than they are "legally obligated to".  At the moment, they are even rescheduling debt payments and contracted work that can be put off until later.  I'm not understanding why it's so hard for people to grasp this fact at the moment?  We will all eventually get the refunds that we're legally entitled to, in accordance with the contracts (T & C's) that we all agreed to (when we first booked our cruises).  I repeat, nothing "illegal" is going on here.

 

There is far more future demand for cruising to "safely" resume, then there are totally dissatisfied past-customers who will simply "take their marbles and go home - forever".  FDR and all the other cruise CEO's know this.  Regards

[pingpong1]

14 minutes ago, Pster55 said:

I doubt I will ever cruise again after this experience.....but if I do, the industry is going to have to change the way it accounts for pre-payments/deposits. There must be third party escrow management.....that is a dead solid certainty. The risk of conversion - using one's deposit to pay other current expenses - MUST be eliminated. That is a minimum requirement for me to cruise. 

When you purchase a car, do you think that the money you hand over to the car salesman somehow "goes back" to the factory to pay for the actual cost (and only that cost) of the particular parts and labor that went into building "your specific car"?  If you purchase a new house in a newly-constructed housing development, do you think that the "cash" your mortgage company hands over to the builder "reimburses" him for only his actual cost of the specific building materials and labor that went into the construction of "your house"?  When you go to a doctor's office, do you think that the specific money paid (from various sources) for your specific medical visit, was allocated to paying only for the specific supplies, electricity usage, and heating/cooling costs for the doctor's practice that were specifically and only "incurred" during your actual/particular visit?  I would hope not.

 

The Social Security premiums and Income Tax I paid for 40 years while I was working, reimbursed the government for the cost of paying my Mom & Dad's Medicare and Social Security benefits.  Just as the money my kids are now paying into "the system", while they now work, are paying for the "retirement benefits" my wife and I are now receiving.  And so on, and so on.  Multi-billion dollar industries like airlines, cruise line companies, hotels, restaurants, etc., in fact every company, do not/can not possibly operate on the "escrow fund principle" that you are seeking or espousing.  The fares we pay today, are going to pay for "future" corporate expenses - not for the cruise we are taking. If you are "waiting" for that to happen, than as you have already stated, you will never cruise again.  Regards

[roger b]

31 minutes ago, pingpong1 said:

With utmost respect for your opinion, I would have to say that you're approaching the whole subject of refunds quite differently than the way I'm looking at it.  I'm not apologizing, defending, or trying to "protect" the cruise lines for these refund "delays".  But I'm also not blaming them for what you're characterizing as an  "unreasonable delay" in processing refunds, either.  It is neither case.  They are currently doing exactly what they're setting out to do (and what employees have been instructed to do by their managers) - Looking out for the companies business interests and protecting their financial health, to maximum extent that they're able to do.  This is what any responsible business (or industry) would do in such uncertain times.

 

You seem to be thinking that the cruise lines are either "wanting and striving" to refund your money as soon as humanely possible, and that it's simply not happening due to some sort of "in-house incompetence" or "lack of motivation" on their part. OR Conversely, if "incompetence" or some systematic "breakdown" isn't the cause for the delay.... then it must be due to some form of "corporate malfeasance" or "illegality" happening on their part.  In actual fact, it's neither of those scenarios!

 

With so much financial uncertainly, unknown future demand and expenses, and tenuous ongoing medical risks (for the industry) at the moment, they are simply preserving as much cash on hand as they can, and not refunding it back to customers or claimants any sooner than they are "legally obligated to".  At the moment, they are even rescheduling debt payments and contracted work that can be put off until later.  I'm not understanding why it's so hard for people to grasp this fact at the moment?  We will all eventually get the refunds that we're legally entitled to, in accordance with the contracts (T & C's) that we all agreed to (when we first booked our cruises).  I repeat, nothing "illegal" is going on here.

 

There is far more future demand for cruising to "safely" resume, then there are totally dissatisfied past-customers who will simply "take their marbles and go home - forever".  FDR and all the other cruise CEO's know this.  Regards

 IF you walked into a car showroom and bought a car for $50000 and the dealer took your money and then said I am in financial difficulties   Please could you wait for 3 months  Would you be jumping up and down the same as other posters on this Board ??? Some people have been asked to pay the final payment to protect losing their deposit ,with little hope of their cruise going ahead  this is what I call sharp practice .

Edited May 9, 2020 by roger b
Miss Spelling

[LHT28]

48 minutes ago, Pster55 said:

Yes, I am. But I can say with conviction I am not a TA or Cruise Line employee....and I will. 

Neither am I 😎

 

BUT  how do we know you are telling the truth 😲

[LHT28]

15 minutes ago, roger b said:

 Some people have been asked to pay the final payment to protect losing their deposit ,with little hope of their cruise going ahead  this is what I call sharp practice .

In North America

If you cancel before the penalties kick in you get a refund no need to make the final payment

 If you do happen  to not read those cancellation periods  & have the Admin fee held back  it can be used  in the future

 

It may work differently in the UK

[pingpong1]

12 minutes ago, roger b said:

 IF you walked into a car showroom and bought a car for $50000 and the dealer took your money and then said I am in financial difficulties   Please could you wait for 3 months  Would you be jumping up and down the same as other posters on this Board ??? Some people have been asked to pay the final payment to protect losing their deposit ,with little hope of their cruise going ahead  this is what I call sharp practice .

Hi Roger - In the scenario you raise, it all depends upon the dealer's legal "Terms & Conditions" that were actually in place and in effect (and which you presumably agreed to) at the time you handed over your deposit to him (the car dealership).  Presumably, when you gave him your deposit (and he "accepted" it) you also signed a legal "vehicle order and sale contract", which would have laid out the "conditions" that were in affect at the time of your purchase, along with any/all legal obligations that the dealership had towards you.

 

In another thread, I just quoted word for word (I lifted them directly from Oceania's online T&C's), two pertinent paragraphs, which seem to "cover them" for all the things ("circumstances beyond  the control of Oceania Cruises"), that are happening right now.  Someone who wishes to mount a legal challenge to what is happening right now, better have many, many thousands of dollars/pounds to pay their own legal expenses, along with many years of their life left to wait for a final outcome.  Best Regards

[pingpong1]

9 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

In North America

If you cancel before the penalties kick in you get a refund no need to make the final payment

 If you do happen  to not read those cancellation periods  & have the Admin fee held back  it can be used  in the future

 

It may work differently in the UK

Hi Lyn - You are completely correct.  In addition, I have read the T&C's from start to finish and I see no stated time limit under which Oceania "stipulates or encumbers itself", for the return of deposits or other refunds that it might owe back to customers.  Perhaps it is in some other controlling document, depending upon the country.

 

But as others have said on these boards, Oceania has stated that refunds can be expected up to 90 days after cancellation.  Has that "90 day window" yet been reached or exceeded for anyone awaiting a refund from their actual cancellation date yet?

 

And no, I'm not a TA either.  Just a "dumb old retired guy living the good life" in Arizona.

[Pster55]

43 minutes ago, pingpong1 said:

When you purchase a car, do you think that the money you hand over to the car salesman somehow "goes back" to the factory to pay for the actual cost (and only that cost) of the particular parts and labor that went into building "your specific car"?  If you purchase a new house in a newly-constructed housing development, do you think that the "cash" your mortgage company hands over to the builder "reimburses" him for only his actual cost of the specific building materials and labor that went into the construction of "your house"?  When you go to a doctor's office, do you think that the specific money paid (from various sources) for your specific medical visit, was allocated to paying only for the specific supplies, electricity usage, and heating/cooling costs for the doctor's practice that were specifically and only "incurred" during your actual/particular visit?  I would hope not.

 

The Social Security premiums and Income Tax I paid for 40 years while I was working, reimbursed the government for the cost of paying my Mom & Dad's Medicare and Social Security benefits.  Just as the money my kids are now paying into "the system", while they now work, are paying for the "retirement benefits" my wife and I are now receiving.  And so on, and so on.  Multi-billion dollar industries like airlines, cruise line companies, hotels, restaurants, etc., in fact every company, do not/can not possibly operate on the "escrow fund principle" that you are seeking or espousing.  The fares we pay today, are going to pay for "future" corporate expenses - not for the cruise we are taking. If you are "waiting" for that to happen, than as you have already stated, you will never cruise again.  Regards

These are all invalid comparisons. With respect to travel, deposits in fact CAN, and SHOULD be held against a specific purchase. In fact, in many industries deposits are required to be accounted for separately and cannot be taken into income until the service is actually performed. These cruise lines are borderline bankrupt and are having trouble paying back deposits precisely because they "apparently" have converted deposits. One poster some months ago said the cruise industry was required by law to segregate deposits......I have no idea if this is true. If it is, there should be no problem in giving everyone their refunds FAST.

[LHT28]

15 minutes ago, pingpong1 said:

Hi Lyn - You are completely correct.  In addition, I have read the T&C's from start to finish and I see no stated time limit under which Oceania "stipulates or encumbers itself", for the return of deposits or other refunds that it might owe back to customers.  Perhaps it is in some other controlling document, depending upon the country.

 

 

The problem for UK residents existed long before the Pandemic

AFAIK   if they  cancel a cruise  they lose their deposit   even before final payment  many have been asked to make the FP by their respective TA's  so that in the even the cruise line cancels they will get a refund ..eventually

At least that is my understanding for UK  bookings

someone will correct me if I am wrong

 

 i am one of those people that read the T & C's  of just about everything  😉

 

[ORV]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

While I'm not "apologizing" for any cruise line's behaviors, and with some airline refunds in various locations throughout "the ether," I do try to put things in perspective.

 

In the case of Oceania, we were fortunate to be at the beginning of the refund line with a greatly modified February cruise headed to Singapore and two current ATW segments (we would've been on right now).

 

From a reliable source, the number of passenger accounts needing to be adjusted in early March approached 30,000 and much of that "handling" was done by O employees increasingly working from home. That said, we were fortunate to get all of our expected O refunds in less than 10 days along with reasonable FCCs.

However, as each new wave of itineraries have been deleted, common sense dictates that the work has had to pile up in this unprecedented situation.

 

So, should we be patient? Yes and No.

As aforementioned, I've got two outstanding airline refunds in the works. With one, where I received an approval a day after I cancelled in February, I still have seen no $$$. That one I've already disputed with my CC issuer (for which I've already gotten the temporary credit pending response by the airline). For the other, the airline has sent the refund to our pre-cruise Safari vendor who has promised to wire me the funds once they're "back in the office" in Toronto. In all honesty, while I'll cut them some slack (perhaps until June 1), I am prepared to dispute that unpaid refund with the CC issuer I used for the Safari package purchase.

Bottom line here is that there are all sorts of individual circumstances affecting refunds right now and I am convinced that much of O's recent time delay in refunding is truly related to their staff being overwhelmed.

 

BUT, as regards not believing what I read on CC, my concern lately is more with the posts being made, or replied to, by folks who just "don't have a clue" (often despite a long history of cruising and CC participation), are unwilling to do any searching first (as recommended by the CC editors), constantly spew misinformation and/or whose posts often go off on tangents unrelated to the  thread's original direction (this last one having at least one particular offender at a time when all the Covid-19 cruise affecting info really needs to take center stage).

 

Of course, it is a public forum. So, it is what it is. 

 

 

 

 

 

I would be skeptical on that 30,000 number. I don't think Oceania would have that many people booked on cruises that are being cancelled. I'd like to see the math on that. Now if we were talking all 3 of the cruise lines that might be different. 

 

One thing I will agree with is that I think we have a few too many apologists here. I truly do believe that Oceania is intentionally delaying refunds. Although I've been a customer for years I find this practice hard to defend. 

[roger b]

13 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

The problem for UK residents existed long before the Pandemic

AFAIK   if they  cancel a cruise  they lose their deposit   even before final payment  many have been asked to make the FP by their respective TA's  so that in the even the cruise line cancels they will get a refund ..eventually

At least that is my understanding for UK  bookings

someone will correct me if I am wrong

 

 i am one of those people that read the T & C's  of just about everything  😉

 

 Yes you are right !! I have had to forfeit $800 from a deposit for another cruise  that was not till 2021  and the law in the U.K is that all monies must be repaid with in 14 days for a booked holiday that is cancelled.

 I  see no reason why a multi billion dollar company  should try to withhold their loyal customers money for 3 months I saw FDR on T.V telling everyone that bookings were up 2021 , pity the interviewer did not ask why they are holding on to peoples money.

 I cannot see any defense as seen on this board of people making excuses for a company of their stature .

 RANT OVER !!!

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

21 minutes ago, ORV said:

I would be skeptical on that 30,000 number. I don't think Oceania would have that many people booked on cruises that are being cancelled. I'd like to see the math on that. Now if we were talking all 3 of the cruise lines that might be different. 

 

One thing I will agree with is that I think we have a few too many apologists here. I truly do believe that Oceania is intentionally delaying refunds. Although I've been a customer for years I find this practice hard to defend. 

Looking at an average of 2500 double occupancy cabins on all 6 ships over the initially affected cruise months of February through May with a probable average itinerary length of 2 weeks suggests approx. 20k mandatory account adjustments. Add to that folks with bookings beyond May to the foreseeable future for 2020 who decided to cancel before/after final pay and I think it's a safe bet of at least another 10k accounts in the first wave requiring handling.

To that, add the next waves of cancellations under way for cruises cancelled after May and another wave we'll see when the autumn 2020 schedule is firmed up - we'll, you get the picture.

BTW, creating somewhat manageable accounting periods may also be contributing somewhat  to announcing itinerary eliminations month-to-month.

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, roger b said:

 Yes you are right !! I have had to forfeit $800 from a deposit for another cruise  that was not till 2021  and the law in the U.K is that all monies must be repaid with in 14 days for a booked holiday that is cancelled.

 I  see no reason why a multi billion dollar company  should try to withhold their loyal customers money for 3 months I saw FDR on T.V telling everyone that bookings were up 2021 , pity the interviewer did not ask why they are holding on to peoples money.

 I cannot see any defense as seen on this board of people making excuses for a company of their stature .

 RANT OVER !!!

 

I suspect  they were waiting for the loans to come in to pay off  the refunds 😉

 

 

 Even ABTA  is asking for patience on the 14 day rule  in normal times  it is probably sufficient time but during  a pandemic  all bets are off

Just my opinion

 

[royallondon]

The cruise lines who continue to promote and seek final payment for cruises they know will not happen, in my view, makes them morally bankrupt.