Zaandam and Rotterdam -- Moving Forward (April 3, 2020)

[catl331]

1 hour ago, catl331 said:

Not really. They can charter a small plane. Lots of bizjets and propjets in this country are available for hire.

Or they could charter a plane seating 4 to 10 people and make several stops.

Edited April 6, 2020 by catl331

[aandjw]

39 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

That flight does show cancelled but how do you know that this was a charter for the HAL passengers?  I am not doubting you, I just was unable to confirm the charter.  Thanks.

No way to know. Just matches how Fridays charter appeared. 

[aandjw]

39 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

That flight does show cancelled but how do you know that this was a charter for the HAL passengers?  I am not doubting you, I just was unable to confirm the charter.  Thanks.

No way to know. Just matches how Fridays charter appeared. 

[Tampa Girl]

1 hour ago, charmed1959 said:

Even if those people have quarantined in their cabin for 14 days, if any of the people who made their food, plated their food, delivered their food, folded the extra sheets and towels, etc became infected from being around infected crew or picking up dishes or linens from infected cabins then everyone’s 14 days needs to start over.  
 

When the Hal ships docked there were 13 passengers on the well ship, the Rotterdam, that were sick.  Another 3 passengers from the Rotterdam were taken in ambulances to hospitals in Florida. Again, that’s the non-sick ship. Hal said 50 crew in addition to the one sent to the hospital are actively showing symptoms.  It did not say which ship they were on.  It’s not a stretch to assume all the people on those flights were exposed.  As for the lady without the mask, she looked winded, like she was having respiratory issues.  From that small snippet of film she looked like she could be infected.

 

Florida track cases pretty well.  In my small elderly county 12 of the first 26 cases were travelers from cruises.  I was thinking there could not possibly be cruisers still coming off of ships, but there are.  

 

Using that logic, no self-isolation or mandatory isolation would ever end.  As for the sick passengers, there were only fourteen passengers taken to hospitals.  That would leave the Zaandam with only one, and we know that is not the case.

[Tampa Girl]

1 hour ago, catl331 said:

Or they could charter a plane seating 4 to 10 people and make several stops.

 

Or . . . they could recognized that isolation on a HAL ship is far superior to self-isolation back home and forget this  this nonsense of requiring charter flights/cars, or whatever, to one's home city.  But speaking practically, what are the chances of another pandemic occurring in the near future which would make this entire conversation close to relevant.

[LMaxwell]

18 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Or . . . they could recognized that isolation on a HAL ship is far superior to self-isolation back home and forget this  this nonsense of requiring charter flights/cars, or whatever, to one's home city.  But speaking practically, what are the chances of another pandemic occurring in the near future which would make this entire conversation close to relevant.

HAL wanted them off the ship as soon as possible.  Between Fort Lauderdale International, Fort Lauderdale Executive, Boca Executive, West Palm International, Miami's various airport there must be hundreds of idled planes available for short notice charter flights.  Getting a plane for just a few people may be inefficient, but in this situation it is not impractical. 

[charmed1959]

29 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Using that logic, no self-isolation or mandatory isolation would ever end.  As for the sick passengers, there were only fourteen passengers taken to hospitals.  That would leave the Zaandam with only one, and we know that is not the case.

Self isolation, as suggested by our local health services, is having 14 days of provisions dropped off outside the door, and having those in isolation disinfect the package of supplies, and cook and clean for themselves for 14 days.  No outside interaction.

 

Reading exhibit B from Holland America in their package to the port commission there were 14 sick people taken to hospitals; 10 passengers from the Zaandam, 3 from the Rotterdam, one crew unspecified which ship.  There were an additional 13 passengers on each ship showing symptoms for a total of 26 passengers.  Those passengers were not allowed to disembark until they recover, and are still either on both ships, or perhaps 13 from the Rotterdam were moved to the Zaandam.  In addition, 50 crew members were showing symptoms.  It did not specify the ship the sick crew members were on.

 

 

[LMaxwell]

49 minutes ago, charmed1959 said:

Self isolation, as suggested by our local health services, is having 14 days of provisions dropped off outside the door, and having those in isolation disinfect the package of supplies, and cook and clean for themselves for 14 days.  No outside interaction.

 

Reading exhibit B from Holland America in their package to the port commission there were 14 sick people taken to hospitals; 10 passengers from the Zaandam, 3 from the Rotterdam, one crew unspecified which ship.  There were an additional 13 passengers on each ship showing symptoms for a total of 26 passengers.  Those passengers were not allowed to disembark until they recover, and are still either on both ships, or perhaps 13 from the Rotterdam were moved to the Zaandam.  In addition, 50 crew members were showing symptoms.  It did not specify the ship the sick crew members were on.

 

 

Thank you for the info with the updated numbers.  Is that an update from HAL?  I have not seen one in a few days but have not looked since about Friday.  Do you know if the plan is for Rotterdam and Zaandam to stay alongside the pier at Port Everglades for 2 weeks? 

[sndral]

6 hours ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Yes, I saw that. So the CDC is just looking out for the welfare of the passengers!  Touching.  Re the clueless passenger who pulled down her mask, I was thinking the same thing.  It might be a stretch to attribute that scene to the CDC, but that scene certainly did not help anything.   

I expect that the CDC is looking at the research and based their decision on studies like this one https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339572058_COVID-19_outbreak_on_the_Diamond_Princess_cruise_ship_estimating_the_epidemic_potential_and_effectiveness_of_public_health_countermeasures .

The study concluded that the best thing for passengers is to get them off the ship ASAP, because although ship board quarantine lowered the R0 compared to not quarantining, the R0 even in quarantine was higher than it would have been if they’d been off the ship. I assume the CDC has access to not yet published data identifying high risk categories for spread and that information is driving decisions - at least I hope so.

[bluesea321]

23 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Thank you for the info with the updated numbers.  Is that an update from HAL?  I have not seen one in a few days but have not looked since about Friday.  Do you know if the plan is for Rotterdam and Zaandam to stay alongside the pier at Port Everglades for 2 weeks? 

 

Attached is the Agreement CCL (HAL) negotiated with the County.  I has the details "charmed1959" provided.  It is long but you can read about the plans for the ships at Port Everglades.

Carnival-Complete-Agreement.pdf

[fabdug]

I was a passenger on the Zaandam, originally booked to complete the Buenos Aries - Santiago leg. HAL tried, unsuccessfully, for  two days to obtain permission for us to disembark in Punta Arenas. It was then decided to sail to FLL, the ship's original destination. A day or so after loading fuel and supplies in San Antonio, we were told that pax and crew were reporting sick with "flu-like symptoms" and we were confined to our cabins. I had an "inside" room and I spent almost 12 days there with just one half-hour break on deck. I arrived home on Saturday and am still dealing with the psychological impact. I would like to pay tribute to the Master and crew of the Zaandam who were brilliant, UK Consulates in The US which helped arrange our repatriation and my cruise agent, ROL, who provided transport home from LHR.

[DFD1]

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I can hardly imagine the trauma. I wish you the best as you try and get this behind you.

[VMax1700]

4 minutes ago, fabdug said:

I was a passenger on the Zaandam, originally booked to complete the Buenos Aries - Santiago leg. HAL tried, unsuccessfully, for  two days to obtain permission for us to disembark in Punta Arenas. It was then decided to sail to FLL, the ship's original destination. A day or so after loading fuel and supplies in San Antonio, we were told that pax and crew were reporting sick with "flu-like symptoms" and we were confined to our cabins. I had an "inside" room and I spent almost 12 days there with just one half-hour break on deck. I arrived home on Saturday and am still dealing with the psychological impact. I would like to pay tribute to the Master and crew of the Zaandam who were brilliant, UK Consulates in The US which helped arrange our repatriation and my cruise agent, ROL, who provided transport home from LHR.

Glad you made it home and relatively unscathed.  I think we will all suffer from the psychological impact of the current times for a long time to come.  We have been at home since March 13th with our kids delivering groceries etc to our doorstep.  Not being able to be close to them and the grandkids is more than difficult, but I cannot imagine being in an inside cabin for 23.5 hours a day.  

Look after yourself, stay well.

[rafinmd]

20 minutes ago, fabdug said:

I would like to pay tribute to the Master and crew of the Zaandam who were brilliant, UK Consulates in The US which helped arrange our repatriation and my cruise agent, ROL, who provided transport home from LHR.

Don't forget the Master and crew of the Rotterdam.  I think the assistance  they provided was critical in slowing the spread of the virus on the Zaandam.

 

Roy

[3rdGenCunarder]

26 minutes ago, fabdug said:

I was a passenger on the Zaandam, originally booked to complete the Buenos Aries - Santiago leg. HAL tried, unsuccessfully, for  two days to obtain permission for us to disembark in Punta Arenas. It was then decided to sail to FLL, the ship's original destination. A day or so after loading fuel and supplies in San Antonio, we were told that pax and crew were reporting sick with "flu-like symptoms" and we were confined to our cabins. I had an "inside" room and I spent almost 12 days there with just one half-hour break on deck. I arrived home on Saturday and am still dealing with the psychological impact. I would like to pay tribute to the Master and crew of the Zaandam who were brilliant, UK Consulates in The US which helped arrange our repatriation and my cruise agent, ROL, who provided transport home from LHR.

 

Thank you for posting about your experience. It's great whenever we hear of another passenger getting  home safely.

 

I have cabin fever being stuck at home, and I have big windows to look out. And I can go out for a walk whenever I want. I cannot imagine being so confined for so long. Daylight is so important for setting your "body clock," so try to get yourself on local time by getting outside in the morning as soon as you get up and show your face what the sun feels like. (Yes, I know the UK's reputation for rain and cloudy weather. 🤪)

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by 3rdGenCunarder

[cat shepard]

1 hour ago, fabdug said:

I was a passenger on the Zaandam, originally booked to complete the Buenos Aries - Santiago leg. HAL tried, unsuccessfully, for  two days to obtain permission for us to disembark in Punta Arenas. It was then decided to sail to FLL, the ship's original destination. A day or so after loading fuel and supplies in San Antonio, we were told that pax and crew were reporting sick with "flu-like symptoms" and we were confined to our cabins. I had an "inside" room and I spent almost 12 days there with just one half-hour break on deck. I arrived home on Saturday and am still dealing with the psychological impact. I would like to pay tribute to the Master and crew of the Zaandam who were brilliant, UK Consulates in The US which helped arrange our repatriation and my cruise agent, ROL, who provided transport home from LHR.

Thank you for sharing your experience.  I am glad you are safely home. Be sure to give yourself time to re-acclimate.  Your body & mind are dealing with some major changes and stressors.

 

Stay well.

[Tampa Girl]

9 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Attached is the Agreement CCL (HAL) negotiated with the County.  I has the details "charmed1959" provided.  It is long but you can read about the plans for the ships at Port Everglades.

Carnival-Complete-Agreement.pdf 977.52 kB · 7 downloads

 

I questioned this:  "When the Hal ships docked there were 13 passengers on the well ship, the Rotterdam, that were sick.  Another 3 passengers from the Rotterdam were taken in ambulances to hospitals in Florida. Again, that’s the non-sick ship."

 

There were 3 Rotterdam passengers who were sent to the hospital; another three were receiving onboard hospitalization.  The additional three, comprising the total of 26 referred to as "sick", were symptomatic but were not hospitalized on board and were asterisked as "May be deemed fit to travel by disembarkation."

 

 

[Tampa Girl]

11 hours ago, charmed1959 said:

Self isolation, as suggested by our local health services, is having 14 days of provisions dropped off outside the door, and having those in isolation disinfect the package of supplies, and cook and clean for themselves for 14 days.  No outside interaction.

 

Reading exhibit B from Holland America in their package to the port commission there were 14 sick people taken to hospitals; 10 passengers from the Zaandam, 3 from the Rotterdam, one crew unspecified which ship.  There were an additional 13 passengers on each ship showing symptoms for a total of 26 passengers.  Those passengers were not allowed to disembark until they recover, and are still either on both ships, or perhaps 13 from the Rotterdam were moved to the Zaandam.  In addition, 50 crew members were showing symptoms.  It did not specify the ship the sick crew members were on.

 

 

 

 

And I wonder how may of these self-isolation cases follow the above procedures...  , which brings me back to my original opinion that the passengers permitted to be disembarked off these two ships likely provided less threat than did the usual airplane passenger served by the flight attendants.

[Sunshine3601]

I have a question.  Initial numbers of I'll passengers and crew before docking was just about 250.  I am sure that number has and will increase, unfortunately.

I understand approx 14 people taken to hospital day docking occurred;however I heard on local news that only 76 passengers remain on zaandam to be cared for by hal.  Where did all the other I'll passengers go?

[DFD1]

I know this does not help, but numbers coming from news media sources cannot be relied on to be accurate....and that's just a small part of the accuracy issue with the news media.

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

 

And I wonder how may of these self-isolation cases follow the above procedures...  , which brings me back to my original opinion that the passengers permitted to be disembarked off these two ships likely provided less threat than did the usual airplane passenger served by the flight attendants.

 

Well, here's an anecdotal report on the "usual population" who are being perceived as less of a threat than returning cruisers.  The water company is digging up my street this morning. I looked out and nobody is wearing a mask. The two cops monitoring traffic seem to be staying far apart. But the workers are less than 3 feet apart while they're digging at the hole to the water main (or taking a coffee break). Yes, they're outside, but that doesn't change the 6-foot rule. (neither would a mask, but we're being asked to wear them)

 

So whenever you're near someone, you don't know what they've been doing, whether they're careful or careless.

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by 3rdGenCunarder

[Vict0riann]

1 hour ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I have a question.  Initial numbers of I'll passengers and crew before docking was just about 250.  I am sure that number has and will increase, unfortunately.

I understand approx 14 people taken to hospital day docking occurred;however I heard on local news that only 76 passengers remain on zaandam to be cared for by hal.  Where did all the other I'll passengers go?

I don't think the number was 250 - more like 100+, if I remember correctly.   Or if it was your number a lot more were crew.

[AV8rix]

Back to original topic....as of right now there has been no change in the published PEV schedule.  Appears that Rotterdam is still going out late tonight (well, it's late for me.  I'm on the left coast). Does anyone, @Copper10-8 perhaps, have any updated information?

[fabdug]

Hi. I was on the Zaandam. The info I had was that 26 sick pax remained on the ship. This from local FLA news. As far as I know, all other pax on Zaandam were well and were flown home. On arrival into FLL we had 400+ pax on board plus crew. I was not aware of any sick pax (or crew) being transferred from the Rotterdam.

[Tampa Girl]

1 hour ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I have a question.  Initial numbers of I'll passengers and crew before docking was just about 250.  I am sure that number has and will increase, unfortunately.

I understand approx 14 people taken to hospital day docking occurred;however I heard on local news that only 76 passengers remain on zaandam to be cared for by hal.  Where did all the other I'll passengers go?

 

Somewhere I read HAL stating that the additional numbers might be family members of the onboard "hospitalized" passengers.