Zaandam and Rotterdam -- Moving Forward (April 3, 2020)

[love_the_sea]

On 4/3/2020 at 1:15 PM, cruzingnut said:

 

No, they have not.  We on the Amsterdam got off the ship in Fremantle, Australia and had to pay for our own flights home if we hadn't used HAL for flights TO the cruise when it began in January. 

 

Linda R.

 

I understood from various blogs written by passengers on the World Cruise that HAL was giving you $1250 toward your flights home. Seems like your travel insurance would also pick up some of the cost.  

[Copper10-8]

2 hours ago, geocruiser said:

I just watched the clip with them walking in the airport.  At 59 sec into the film, one of the PAX is not wearing her mask .  She has it pulled down.   I don't understand that.

 

Unbelievably stupid and careless! Everyone else in that shot has theirs on but this individual has to pull hers below her mouth and chin. They walk among us

Edited April 4, 2020 by Copper10-8

[conwakr]

United should cease international and domestic flights and furlough workers if their workers are afraid. Seems like the right thing for United to do. I am somewhat shocked Airlines are still flying.


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[bluesea321]

1 hour ago, Copper10-8 said:

Unbelievably stupid and careless! Everyone else in that shot has theirs on but this individual has to pull hers below her mouth and chin. They walk among us

 

Right on as usual.  I found it incredible that this person ignored the requirement to wear a mask and I am surprised that those around her did not say something (perhaps they did).  Fort Lauderdale workers put their own health on the line for this person and she does not have decency to follow a simply rule.

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, janert said:

cdwise--I am a retired flight attendant from a major US airline.  I have friends who are still flying.  It is very scary.  4 flight attendants have died that worked for the airline I am retired from.  6 or 7 ground personal have died also.   Many more are sick.  The airlines are  not proving much for protection.  Most just have agreed to let flight attendants and ground crews to wear masks and gloves in the last week.  They do not provide them.  So why would a crew want to take passengers who are just off a cruise ship with passengers who have died from Covid19?  Not me.  Australia or  Holland America needs to provide a charter.  Those crew members are aware of the type of passengers they are carrying and can make decision before flight.  So I am not sure you would be so willing to fly an airplane with passengers who they know have been exposed to Covid19.  Sounds nice to say yes to something you will never be in the position to have to decide.   I think that the question should never been posted.  No one knows what they will do in difficult situations until it actually happens. 

 

Why would a crew want to take anybody who gets on a plane these days? The person a flight attendant greets at the door to the plane for any flight could have come from a house where his/her spouse was infected or a workplace where a coworker was walking around infected and asymptomatic. The passengers from the HAL ships had been quarantined. Granted, a ship is not a perfect place for it, but people were kept apart, staying in their cabins. How do you know that everyone getting on any commercial flight has been self-quarantining? Especially considering there still are states that haven't issued a "stay home" order. 

[DaveSJ711]

2 hours ago, Madtown_cruiser said:

Amen.   I doubt that any one of the persons who decided to sail into a viral pandemic ever consulted with the people they were expecting to take care of them in the event they needed "evacuation" if it was okay with them if they would mind putting their lives at risk to bail them out for their risky behavior. ALL human life precious.

 

False premise.  The World Health Organization didn't declare a global pandemic until March 11 -- four days after the Zaandam sailed.

 

Also, the Zaandam's destinations were relatively untouched by the virus at the time of sailing.  Buenos Aires reported a grand total of six cases prior to March 7.  The entire country of Chile had five cases prior to sailing.  So why should the Zaandam passengers have consulted with anybody in Argentina or Chile under these circumstances?

Edited April 5, 2020 by DaveSJ711

[Jaxweb]

7 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

No, it was not.  An Eastern Charter flight from FLL to SFO but commercial for all from there, a mistake.

Well, then it makes a lot sense to not accept them then. 
I’m sure the other passengers wouldn’t appreciate being on that flight with so many potentially exposed passengers. A lawsuit waiting to happen. 
 

They should have been chartered to their final destination airports. What good is it to charter to another airport and then fly commercial the rest of the way?

Edited April 5, 2020 by Jaxweb

[Jaxweb]

7 hours ago, cdwise said:

Yes

It’s easy to say. 
Is anyone really going to respond here saying they wouldn’t?

[bluesea321]

5 minutes ago, Jaxweb said:

Well, then it makes a lot sense to not accept them then. 
I’m sure the other passengers wouldn’t appreciate being on that flight with so many potentially exposed passengers. A lawsuit waiting to happen. 
 

They should have been chartered to their final destination airports. What good is it to charter to another airport and then fly commercial the rest of the way?

 

I agree but that is what was done with many pax, charter part way and commercial from there.

[Sunshine3601]

2 hours ago, conwakr said:

United should cease international and domestic flights and furlough workers if their workers are afraid. Seems like the right thing for United to do. I am somewhat shocked Airlines are still flying.


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We need airlines to continue to fly.  We use passenger planes to carry cargo as well as us mail.   I believe this is one of the main struggles that has been discussed with the feds and plane executives.  If we used solely cargo planes you will see prices soar more than they already have. 

 

[Jaxweb]

6 hours ago, T8NCruise said:

 

Obviously it would depend on your own circumstances - if you have a spouse/children/elderly relative at home with underlying health issues, no.  Otherwise, absolutely.

What about all the other passengers who might get exposed on the commercial flight? 

[Vict0riann]

Do you think there is any responsibility for the countries involved, i.e. Australia and New Zealand to help their countrymen get home?  From Fremantle, were any countries involved?  I think Canada organized some flights from Cambodia and Japan?

[Jaxweb]

6 hours ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

The issue is that everyone, not just the HAL passengers, are possibly infected.  The crew should have been fired on the spot.

No.  The HAL passengers are more likely to be infected than the general population. 
Its isn’t just about the cabin crew. The other passengers sitting around them don’t want unnecessary additional risk.   I can see people suing if they found out after the fact that the airline seated HAL passengers around them who were known to have been in contact with infected passengers. 
Worse than just suing would be actually getting infected like people who interacted with Ruby Princess passengers let out to travel commercially in Australia. 
 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Jaxweb

[sansterre]

7 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

The local news were there waiting.  See below.  And so much for the passengers wearing a mask all the way home like they were supposed to, check out the news clip starting at about the 55 second mark.  One pax has her mask off.

 

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/zaandam-cruise-ship-passengers-land-at-sfo/2267368/

Not that she shouldn't keep her mask on, but the woman is carrying a backpack and seems to be in some distress.  Wearing a mask does affect one's breathing ability.  

I found it very difficult to keep a mask on as I flew back from a cruise on March 18.  I tried to keep a mask on because of probable COVID in the three airports and on two airfreights. I'm not sure if it is because of my heart disease or a tendency to be claustrophobic - maybe a combination of the two, but there were times I had to lift the mask off my nose just to breath normally.

[bluesea321]

2 minutes ago, sansterre said:

Not that she shouldn't keep her mask on, but the woman is carrying a backpack and seems to be in some distress.  Wearing a mask does affect one's breathing ability....

 

If she was in distress (and that is an IF) she could have asked for assistance and a wheelchair would have been provided.  And if she was in distress, the more reason to keep her mask on as she could be infected.  Shortness of breath is one of the key symptoms. 

[RuthC]

8 minutes ago, Jaxweb said:

 The HAL passengers are more likely to be infected than the general population. 

Source for this statement, please. 

Right now it's impossible to tell how many in the population are likely infected since most of the population hasn't had an opportunity to be tested. We now know that people can be asymptomatic yet be contagious. When you step out of your house you have no idea if a person you pass has covid-19 or not; same is true when someone who lives in your house comes home.

[Jaxweb]

1 minute ago, RuthC said:

Source for this statement, please. 

Right now it's impossible to tell how many in the population are likely infected since most of the population hasn't had an opportunity to be tested. We now know that people can be asymptomatic yet be contagious. When you step out of your house you have no idea if a person you pass has covid-19 or not; same is true when someone who lives in your house comes home.

The general population didn’t just hop off a cruise ship with known infected passengers and then congregate together on a flight where social distancing isn’t possible. 
Not the same as stepping outside my house. 

[RuthC]

8 minutes ago, Jaxweb said:

Not the same as stepping outside my house. 

The virus is being passed in communities all over the country, and has been for several weeks now. You don't need to get near someone who was on one of the ships with infected passengers to get it. 

[dockman]

2 minutes ago, Jaxweb said:

The general population didn’t just hop off a cruise ship with known infected passengers and then congregate together on a flight where social distancing isn’t possible. 
Not the same as stepping outside my house. 

 No but they sure could have just come from an airport or a bus station or a subway or a church service or a hospital or an infinite number of places where they could have been infected.    I hardly think that a significant portion of a million people worldwide  got the infection from a cruise passenger contact.

 

The cruise passengers are certainly more "visible" as many of the ships have been demonized non stop on TV and the Web for weeks at a time. It's a big easy target to blast on TV over and over.  Not so easy to do stories of a dozen or so here and another dozen or so there.

 

Enough of the trying to blame cruise passengers for the virus.  The fact is that NONE of us know how many infected people we may encounter anywhere as we are woefully short of testing sick and not so sick people.

   

 If you take the time to look at the exponential rates of infections that we are just starting to learn it is apparent that nobody is safe....but if it makes people feel "safer" to  think by avoiding cruise passengers you can avoid the virus I wish you luck.

[kazu]

52 minutes ago, Jaxweb said:

What about all the other passengers who might get exposed on the commercial flight? 

 

I can’t speak for the rest, but Canada chartered it’s own flight for the passengers.

As we have done before when we needed to repatriate people.  And, they are all in quarantine, of course.

 

I think you need to realize that this virus is all around.  I would bet dollars to donuts that if there was real testing you would find many have / had it already.  Remember a lot of people are asymptomatic.

 

Rather than lash out at the cruise ship passengers, I suggest you focus on those not social distancing and educate them or those travelling for the sake of doing so and going from place to place which could infect far more people.  JMO

[Tampa Girl]

59 minutes ago, Jaxweb said:

What about all the other passengers who might get exposed on the commercial flight? 

 

 

They have already been exposed by their daily activities.  Surely the attendants must be aware of that possibility.

[LHT28]

I wonder how long  it is  if you are in isolation  that you can get the virus?

CDC tells people to self isolate for 14 days

I have read most people show signs  in 5 to10 days after contact with an affected person

 Those on the ship were isolated in their cabins on March 22 nd  .

You would think  if they were infected  that they would shown signs by yesterday

 

JMO

[Jaxweb]

3 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

I wonder how long  it is  if you are in isolation  that you can get the virus?

CDC tells people to self isolate for 14 days

I have read most people show signs  in 5 to10 days after contact with an affected person

 Those on the ship were isolated in their cabins on March 22 nd  .

You would think  if they were infected  that they would shown signs by yesterday

 

JMO

Some people get it and it’s so mild to them that they never show symptoms. They can still transmit it to others who won’t be as lucky even when asymptomatic. 

[LHT28]

54 minutes ago, Jaxweb said:

Some people get it and it’s so mild to them that they never show symptoms. They can still transmit it to others who won’t be as lucky even when asymptomatic. 

What about people coming home from other vacations & self isolate  will they still transmit it  even if they were not sick??

 

[cruzingnut]

6 hours ago, love_the_sea said:

 

I understood from various blogs written by passengers on the World Cruise that HAL was giving you $1250 toward your flights home. Seems like your travel insurance would also pick up some of the cost.  

 

I can only hope they will but it is sounding like no travel insurance covers this situation with the virus.  I'll find out though.

 

Linda R.