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What it will take for cruising to resume

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8 hours ago, ThirstyCruiser said:

There are 2 key points in that video that to me make it abudentatly clear cruising is not starting anytime soon. First, a vaccine is > 1 year away in the most optimistic yet still realistic scenario.


All cruise-lines will be bankrupt if a vaccine is a prerequisite to restarting that business. 

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Posted (edited)

I would think lot of borders around the world will not reopen until there is a vaccine available globally.

That's the medical opinion reported from a research institute here.

Even if here in Australia we get down to zero in 3 to 4 months, all contacts of positive cases have to be contactable and tested as well. We are in self isolation nationwide with severe restrictions and possibly with some restrictions until Christmas.

The report suggested it would be 12-18 months before borders would possibly open and when a vaccine is available globally.

But really who knows where we are heading with this damned virus.

 

Edited by megsie

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One thing to keep in mind....this pandemic is changing us, and society as a whole...some things will never be the same.

Myself, I am not sure when I will ever start to shake hands again, or hug a close friend, relative?

When will I feel comfortable going to a movie, concert, crowded ball game.
Use public transportation.
Am I going to become one of those people we would see wearing a mask for no apparent reason? (generally Asians)

 

Equate this to a cruise ship....will people feel comfortable  sitting in the main theater? Ice rink? How about the buffet? Yes you sanatize your hands but still sit on top of each other.
How do you enjoy a cruise and distant yourself from others?

Heck, I can't see myself getting past the muster drill.....

 

Add to all that the bad press the cruise industry has gotten, and peoples perception about cruises.

Its not going to happen overnight....someone is not going to say, "Ok, on such and such a day, at such and such a time, everybody and everything can go back to normal" ALL cruises can resume on September 1st....
It is going to take a long, long time

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, megsie said:

 

But really who knows where we are heading with this damned virus.

 

Exactly.  But read the threads here and lots of people think they will be cruising this summer or fall.....

 

We won't make payment on our fall Med cruise, 99% sure it's toast.  Even if by some miracle it sails, we won't be on it.  Who knows if our bookings next winter will even sail.  All I do know is we did 6 weeks on ships this past January-February and are really glad we did, might be the last for quite some time.

Edited by bouhunter

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US has 1.1 million people with HIV/AIDS, with a little under 40,000 new cases a year and around 16,000 deaths. Hopefully no one gets a tainted blood transfusion, especially since screening laws have been relaxed, or the disease mutates and becomes more communicable.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Junkhouse said:

US has 1.1 million people with HIV/AIDS, with a little under 40,000 new cases a year and around 16,000 deaths. Hopefully no one gets a tainted blood transfusion, especially since screening laws have been relaxed, or the disease mutates and becomes more communicable.

I, for one, do not go on a cruise planning to get a blood transfusion. However, I do go on a cruise planning to breathe. Pretty big difference there, imho. 

Edited by maxsales

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I don't believe the cruise industry will survive until December. I believe it will take several months at least to begin to turn things around, and if the cruise lines survive, how many people that are now out of work will have the funds to go on a cruise any time soon. I sure hope they don't go bankrupt. Almost jumped on Carnival and Royal stock but my investment broker said he would be afraid to put money into either, unless I understood there is a big chance I may lose it all!

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I think many of us are over estimating the general public.  I would guess that there will be an overall change in behavior going forward, but I'd also guess that most people will return to their previous normal as quickly as they can.  I think the concepts behind the theory of diffusion of innovations will be part of how we come out of this.  There will be the early adaptors who will quickly go back to normal and the laggards who will remain concerned and take a much longer time.  Most people will be somewhere in the middle of the curve and take their cue from others.

 

The obvious difference though is that the diffusion of innovation theory assumes people have the choice to adopt an innovation or not.  In the case of Covid-19, governments around the world will control that choice to an extent.  Whether people want to cruise, and whether cruise lines want to cruise, won't matter if governments won't allow it.

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1 hour ago, fla gang said:

I don't believe the cruise industry will survive until December.

Nothing will survive, as we know it, if this lasts until December.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Junkhouse said:

Nothing will survive, as we know it, if this lasts until December.

Cramming 3-5000 people in a cruise ship petri dish for a week isn't the same as anything else.  If cruises haven't started up in December it doesn't mean everything else will still be shut down.

Edited by bouhunter

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1 hour ago, bouhunter said:

Cramming 3-5000 people in a cruise ship petri dish for a week isn't the same as anything else.  If cruises haven't started up in December it doesn't mean everything else will still be shut down.

Cramming thousands in sports arenas or convention centers will have similar consequences. The difference is people are not in those environments long enough to see symptoms develop but if the disease is not contained it would surely spread at those venues. Airline travel will also be problematic. Will you want a middle seat?  Restaurants as well. There will need to be precautions and procedural changes in place for any of those “petri dishes” to begin operating. 

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4 hours ago, B-52 said:

One thing to keep in mind....this pandemic is changing us, and society as a whole...some things will never be the same.

Myself, I am not sure when I will ever start to shake hands again, or hug a close friend, relative?

When will I feel comfortable going to a movie, concert, crowded ball game.
Use public transportation.
Am I going to become one of those people we would see wearing a mask for no apparent reason? (generally Asians)

 

Equate this to a cruise ship....will people feel comfortable  sitting in the main theater? Ice rink? How about the buffet? Yes you sanatize your hands but still sit on top of each other.
How do you enjoy a cruise and distant yourself from others?

Heck, I can't see myself getting past the muster drill.....

 

Add to all that the bad press the cruise industry has gotten, and peoples perception about cruises.

Its not going to happen overnight....someone is not going to say, "Ok, on such and such a day, at such and such a time, everybody and everything can go back to normal" ALL cruises can resume on September 1st....
It is going to take a long, long time

 

I'm going back to my pre-COVID19 life (with additional hand washing 😉) as soon as it's safe.  I've managed to survive a whopping case of Hong Kong flu (pre-vaccines in 1968), and weathered through SARS, MERS, and a variety of avian flu varieties, so if I get through this, it will be back to my interrupted life with a new vaccine under my belt, so to speak.

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3 hours ago, maxsales said:

I, for one, do not go on a cruise planning to get a blood transfusion. However, I do go on a cruise planning to breathe. Pretty big difference there, imho. 

Nobody intends to get a transfusion but we were on a cruise that they requested blood donors for a passenger in distress.  My points are there are risks involved with us just getting out of bed. 

 

Would you avoid this if you knew that 2.8 million have this happen to them, 800,000 have to be hospitalized, and 27,000 a year die of this?  So stay in bed because this is the yearly statistics for falls.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/4/2020 at 3:00 PM, eel said:

Thanks for posting those videos Hoopster95! 
 

I liked the first video much better than the second.  I did learn a few things from the second video but I did not care for the presenters style.

 

Hey Petra!!!! Hope you are doing well and staying safe 🙂 Please say hello to Lee for me.

Our Ovation cruise last year seems like a decade away now, doesn't it?

I liked the first video  better as well, but I really liked the simplicity of the 2nd one with regard to his demonstrations. I really didn't like his vulgar language, unnecessary. However this doctor has a ton of followers.

 

On 4/4/2020 at 2:04 PM, bobmacliberty said:

Thanks for posting Hoopster.  The Korean video was very interesting...especially the bit about wearing a mask.  It hit me strong that the Korean doctor finished by saying something like, "this is science.  We need to remain humble". 

 

The second guy immediately described himself as world famous, starting talking about his degrees, the number of books that he has published, and called his patients his "followers".  I didn't make it past the 30 second mark of the second video.

 

Gotcha bobmac.... may I offer another video? Please give this one a chance. Much more serious tone as he interviews a colleague in California. Tons of excellent info here for everyone, and it can relate to cruising..... of interest: mass testing at about 15:00. This could be an answer to allowing people on a cruise ship

 

 

Edited by Hoopster95

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3 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

Hey Petra!!!! Hope you are doing well and staying safe 🙂 Please say hello to Lee for me.

Our Ovation cruise last year seems like a decade away now, doesn't it?

Actually this is Lee!  Petra’s CC name is CleoPetra. We are so glad we went on that Ovation Cruise last May. We had such a good time. Hope you are doing well  through these crazy times. 

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Here's what Genting plans after cruising resumes:

 

Infrared fever screening, doctor's certificate of fitness for those over 70, greatly enhanced cabin/public room sanitizing and twice-daily temperature checks for crew are among the actions Genting Cruise Lines plans before beginning service in the 'near future.'

 

These are intended to become the norm for all the Dream Cruises and Star Cruises ships.

Included are stringent health screening processes and protocols prior to embarkation and disembarkation, thorough sanitization and disinfection and enhanced hygiene practices for guest cabins, public areas and recreational activities, food and beverage safety and crew health. 

 

Capacity limits in public rooms/motor coaches, no more self-serve at buffets

The capacity of public rooms and tour motor coaches will be limited to provide space for social distancing. In entertainment venues and coaches, guest capacity will be limited to 50%. 

Crew wearing face masks and gloves will take over service in buffet-dining areas. 

 

Resumig cruises at mid-year? 

'As the situation improves in China now, we believe that operations may be able to resume in the middle of the year,' Genting said today, adding that would bring confidence in the global market.

'We have been preparing for the resumption of service, including carefully reviewing our prevention and response plan with the COVID-19 pandemic in mind to update and provide enhanced and comprehensive measures across our fleet,' the company continued. 'We have created a positive opportunity during this hiatus to also implement comprehensive crew training to reinforce effective cleaning procedures, health and hygiene protocols and efficient guest interaction, which we will adopt as the new cruising norm for our fleet and we hope for the industry, too.

'Once the ports open in China, we are ready to resume operations immediately.'

Should destinations such as Japan remain closed then, Genting urged the Chinese government to allow domestic cruises and cruises-to-nowhere.

 

Collaboration for an industry standard

 

The company is going to collaborate with the China Cruise & Yacht Industry Association on a white paper for the cruise industry’s COVID-19 prevention and response plan, providing a comprehensive and unified standard for the cruise industry to ensure the safety of passengers and crew. 

A further vote of confidence to Genting's initiatives was provided by the Asia Cruise Terminal Association, which endorsed the protocols and pledged to support them throughout its member ports =across the region including in Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan and Vietnam.

The Genting measures span every aspect of cruise operations.

 

Embarkation/disembarkation

There will be mandatory temperature screening and pre-boarding health declarations for all travelers and an infrared fever screening system at the gangway. Sanitation and disinfection of the gangway and all passenger walkways will be increased.       

Those 70 and older will need to provide a doctor’s certificate of fitness for travel. Stringent checks for all embarking individuals will include crew travel documents.  

To minimize congestion in the cruise terminal, passengers will complete online check-in with a designated arrival time. There will be additional areas for cruise boarding and disembarkation, with staggered times.

 

Guest cabins

Accommodations will be cleaned with higher frequency and increased levels of sanitation and disinfection using hospital-grade disinfectants. This will include twice-daily wipe-down of cabins and corridors, and fogging of vacant cabins and corridors. Bathrooms will get treated with heavy-duty alkaline bathroom cleaner and disinfectant.

Food items will be removed in a timely manner to prevent spoilage and cultivation of microorganisms and bacteria.

Bedsheets and linens will be professionally cleaned and disinfected at high temperatures.

Diluted cleaning solution will be injected into drains to avoid clogged pipes and prevent bacterial growth.

 

In case of sickness, rooms will get thorough hospital-grade disinfectant and fogging.

 

Public areas

All public areas will undergo a two-tier sanitization process with thorough cleansing, fogging and wiping using hospital-grade disinfectant, with this frequency schedule: elevators (every two hours), public areas and facilities (two to 10 times daily), spa (at least twice daily).

The frequency of disinfection for other areas will be adjusted accordingly.

Common areas will be sanitized from once daily to two to four times daily and frequent touchpoints such as handrails, lift buttons, table-tops and door handles will be sterilized every hour or more often during peak hours such as embarkation/disembarkation, return from shore excursions and meal times.

A heavy-duty neutral PH floor-cleaning agent will be used frequently to disinfect all floors of the ship.

Hand sanitizers will be available in public areas, including all food and beverage areas and entertainment facility entrances, with crew members stationed at key venues to monitor.

 

Food hygiene practices/standards

All F&B areas including restaurants, bars and galleys will be cleaned and sanitized three times daily, during and after service.

Guest seating will ensure ample spacing. Disposable cutlery will be provided upon request.

Self-service at buffet restaurants will be suspended, with all food service crew wearing face masks and disposable gloves.

The use of wild animals and related products in food preparation is strictly prohibited. Stringent procurement guidelines will be enforced and product sourcing from highly affected regions will be strictly prohibited.

 

Entertainment/recreational activities

Theaters will be sanitized before and after each show and 3D glasses disinfected before and after use. Toys, games and Kids’ Club facilities will be cleaned twice daily and/or after every use.

Duty-free shops and entertainment venues will be disinfected twice daily before and after service. Recreational equipment will be disinfected every two hours before guest use.

Capacity will be limited to half the venue capacity to provide ample space between guests.

 

Spa and gym facilities will be sanitized prior to and after use.

 

Shore excursions

Tour coaches will be limited to half capacity and sanitized frequently; training for tour operators based on guidance from the World Health Organization.

 

HVAC

Genting said 100% external fresh air will be filtered and supplied to passenger cabins and public areas. Air filters and cooling coils will be thoroughly checked, cleaned and replaced to ensure healthy air quality.

 

Medical Center

Isolated wards will be available. Contaminated items and medical waste will be properly sealed and disposed according to health and safety guidelines. Used face masks and protective equipment will be disposed at designated central collection points.

Medical equipment and waste bins will be cleaned, disinfected and washed twice daily with hospital grade disinfectant.

Medical Center isolation staff dealing with suspected infectious cases will have to wear adequate personal protection including face mask, eye protection and disposable gloves and outer garment, along with proper hand-washing procedures. They will need to update their personal health information daily.

 

Crew practices and standards

Crew will undergo twice daily temperature checks. All frontline crew are required to wear face masks. Housekeeping and F&B crew are required to wear disposable gloves. Designated crew may also wear protective garments and eye protection if required.

All crew are to use anti-bacterial hand soap for at least 20 seconds to sanitize hands. 

Workshops and crew training on pertinent health and safety measures will be provided.

Crew movements will be reduced.

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3 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

The company is going to collaborate with the China Cruise & Yacht Industry Association on a white paper for the cruise industry’s COVID-19 prevention and response plan, providing a comprehensive and unified standard for the cruise industry to ensure the safety of passengers and crew. 

 

A further vote of confidence to Genting's initiatives was provided by the Asia Cruise Terminal Association, which endorsed the protocols and pledged to support them throughout its member ports =across the region including in Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan and Vietnam.

Given this^, Spectrum and Quantum will likely have very similar measures.

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Wow.  Guest capacity in entertainment venues limited to 50% of the seats.  Looks like Cats will be playing forever, will be very safe after intermission.

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52 minutes ago, mugtech said:

Guest capacity in entertainment venues limited to 50% of the seats. 

That might be hard to enforce for something like the aqua shows on O class.

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6 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

That might be hard to enforce for something like the aqua shows on O class.

I could hear it now.  "Yes sir, that seat is not taken, but half the seats must remain vacant, I cannot let you sit there.  There is another show tomorrow, perhaps you could come an hour early to get a seat."

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1 minute ago, mugtech said:

I could hear it now.  "Yes sir, that seat is not taken, but half the seats must remain vacant, I cannot let you sit there.  There is another show tomorrow, perhaps you could come an hour early to get a seat."

I didn't mean the venue itself as that has reservations and they could limit that, but you could get huge crowds on the boardwalk and deck 7 balconies trying to see the show, you know, the ones like now who don't have a reservation. And even if you limit the crowd, you'll have everyone let in try to sit up front.

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A simple answer to your question would be - demand. And the demand will be very high right when this whole crisis is over. Moreover, its not going anywhere at the moment. You can still take a cruise in some countries and with some particular routes. Its not like its not operating at all. Also, people are still booking for the end of the year and for the next year. The industry is not going anywhere my friend

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Posted (edited)

An interview with the President of Genting:

 

Quote

CIN: To start, this is a comprehensive medical and social distancing plan. When did you start working on this? Was there a starting point?

Zhu: The health and welfare of all our guests and crew have always been a priority at Genting Cruise Lines but we began planning for the enhancement and implementation of our standards and procedures in greater detail in February, after the suspension of our fleet in Asia.

 

CIN: You are involving seemingly every facet of ship operations, is there one person who led the charge here?

Zhu: As the president of Genting Cruise Lines, it is my responsibility to ensure that our brands are equipped to overcome all difficulties and be ready to handle challenging situations. However, this initiative was truly the collaboration of the many different departments involved in the operations of our brands including Marine & Safety, Hotel Operations, Port Operations, Communications, Human Resources and many others. I am grateful to everyone on my team for their hard work during these trying times.

 

CIN: Do you plan to add additional crew for this?

Zhu: Providing the highest level of our acclaimed Asian hospitality is our brand philosophy and we will continue to ensure our service standards will always be maintained, even as we roll out our new safety and hygiene measures. However, if required, we will look at supplementing the crew members on our ships.

 

CIN: Since you are operating some venues at half capacity, do you trim occupancy in any way; can you still operate full ships?

Zhu: At first, when our ships return to service after the COVID-19 crisis, we anticipate that there will be a gradual increase in guest numbers as we build consumer confidence in cruises. As occupancy increase, we will revisit our guidelines and adjust accordingly if required.

 

CIN: Will this going into effect on the day you return to operations?

Zhu: During our ships’ suspension period, we have conducted thorough deep cleaning and sanitization onboard as well as provided full training for all our crew members of our new health and hygiene policies, in preparation for our resumption of service. We will be ready to roll out this new norm of cruising when we welcome back our guests onboard our fleet. 

Edited by Biker19

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1 hour ago, mugtech said:

Wow.  Guest capacity in entertainment venues limited to 50% of the seats.  Looks like Cats will be playing forever, will be very safe after intermission.

 

I almost snorted my coffee out my nose.

 

It sounds like ships might sail at half capacity for double the cost going forward with the same amount of crew.  🤷‍♂️

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On 4/5/2020 at 8:30 AM, Junkhouse said:

US has 1.1 million people with HIV/AIDS, with a little under 40,000 new cases a year and around 16,000 deaths. Hopefully no one gets a tainted blood transfusion, especially since screening laws have been relaxed, or the disease mutates and becomes more communicable.

Is is probably the most absurd post that I have read. Where are they relaxing blood screenings? At the vet?   Hep C is also transmitted through blood transfusions.

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