Princess cruise ships waiting of the coast of Australia told to go home

[hobbyfarmer2]

29 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

IDK the real 3M facts - seems to be muddled.  I wouldn't necessarily count that order cancelled quite yet.  When our PM mocks POTUS, perhaps his initial reaction to things is not the best.  Seems to be good rapport with key officials however.  PS - We did that embassy thing back in the day also, didn't we?  Rescued several Americans and smuggled them out of Middle

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by hobbyfarmer2
Already asked

[Pushka]

29 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Hmm... HAL booked a commercial flight from SFO to Sydney but the flight crew refused to fly with the HAL passengers.

 

The Australian Government chartered a flight for all passengers. I don't know why these passengers tried to get on to a commercial flight, nor why HAL thought a commercial flight was appropriate. 

[bluesea321]

4 minutes ago, Pushka said:

And I'd like to know why HAL thought a commercial flight was appropriate when the Australian Government had already set up a charter flight for repatriation. 

 

Someone's info is not correct here.  Attached FYI is the formal Agreement that CCL (HAL) and Broward County Florida executed before allowing the Zaandam to dock in PE.  The Agreement calls for CCL to pay for flights to the final destination of the passengers thus the United flight arrangement.  CCL apparently failed to confirm that a United flight crew would indeed take the paxs, some of which could be infected since 25% of positive cases are asymptomatic. 

 

I was surprised that many of the pax were flying commercial, seemed inappropriate to me.  Charter flights were arranged to Toronto, London, Paris and Frankfurt as well as US destinations, with commercial from there, a mistake IMO.  And to make matters worse a San Francisco news station greeted the Australians/Kiwis in SFO last night and one very irresponsible person was not wearing her mask as she had been ordered to do.  If you are interested see clip here at the 55 second mark:

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/zaandam-cruise-ship-passengers-land-at-sfo/2267368/

Carnival-Complete-Agreement.pdf

[bluesea321]

18 minutes ago, Pushka said:

The Australian Government chartered a flight for all passengers. I don't know why these passengers tried to get on to a commercial flight, nor why HAL thought a commercial flight was appropriate. 

 

A failure to communicate perhaps.  If the Australian Government chartered flights for all pax they did not tell the passengers or CCL.  The pax tried to get on the United flight because that is what they were told to do by CCL who had prearranged the flight.  Hard to believe that the Aus Gov. would arrange chartered flights for their citizens and NOT tell the passengers involved regarding the arrangement.  So I don't buy it, something is amiss here.

 

Suggest checking the CC HAL boards for much more info on this:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2744550-zaandam-and-rotterdam-moving-forward-april-3-2020/page/9/

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by bluesea321

[satxdiver]

3 hours ago, nho9504 said:

 

It is the cruise lines themselves jeopardizing the rescue efforts!   They dont want to pay and to ensure the safety to their passengers, their crews and the communities they disembark their passengers to.

 

Local governments, especially Florida governor and Broward county, the Coast Guards, all allow Carnival to dock the 2 Holland America ships PROVIDED they meet the requirements the Unified Command set out - Yet, it took Carnival 5 days trying to bargain out of such.  Thankfully, our local government and coast guards would not allow that to happen.  I am very grateful to them for putting us, the local people's safety to the top of the priority and not using our tax dollars to aid the cruise lines.

Not totally correct from what has been reported in the national news and from what the FL governor himself has said.  Initially he was said that he did not want any of the pax allowed in FL even though there were Floridians aboard.  Also reported was that the Broward county authorities in deep discussion about it with those opposed and those for.  I have not heard the US Coast Guard's POV so far.  It took Carnival several days to even get an agreement to allow the ships into port.  At the end of the discussion the agreement to port if Carnival would among other requirements post a $1 million bond which to a corporation like Carnival is pocket change.  It has also been reported that Carnival was arranging for flights to the pax destination and arranging transportation from the ship to the airport.  Pax would wait on the ship until the flights were ready.  

 

Evidently the port of Miami is easier to deal with as the Coral changed direction earlier this morning and went to Miami.  Congratulations to Miami for helping our fellow mankind.  

 

I read about several interviews with pax getting off the HAL ships and one who was a Floridian said that he had voted for Desantis but after this we would not do it again. 

[Babr]

1 minute ago, bluesea321 said:

 

A failure to communicate perhaps.  If the Australian Government chartered flights for all pax they did not tell the passengers or CCL.  The pax tried to get on the United flight because that is what they were told to do by CCL who had prearranged the flight.  Hard to believe that the Aus Gov. would arrange chartered flights for their citizens and NOT tell the passengers involved regarding the arrangement.  So I don't buy it, something is amiss here.

Maybe it was chartered after United refused to fly.

[bluesea321]

2 minutes ago, Babr said:

Maybe it was chartered after United refused to fly.

 

Yes, a possibility.  But keep in mind that they were in line for a hotel voucher (late Fri night in the US) so the charter would have been today (Sat in the US).

[Babr]

2 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Yes, a possibility.  But keep in mind that they were in line for a hotel voucher (late Fri night in the US) so the charter would have been today (Sat in the US).

Right. The first flight (charter) got them to SFO, but United refused at that point - hence a line for vouchers. Is the timeline off? When did the second charter fly?

[Pushka]

14 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

A failure to communicate perhaps.  If the Australian Government chartered flights for all pax they did not tell the passengers or CCL.  The pax tried to get on the United flight because that is what they were told to do by CCL who had prearranged the flight.  Hard to believe that the Aus Gov. would arrange chartered flights for their citizens and NOT tell the passengers involved regarding the arrangement.  So I don't buy it, something is amiss here.

 

Suggest checking the CC HAL boards for much more info on this:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2744550-zaandam-and-rotterdam-moving-forward-april-3-2020/page/9/

 

Likely. Maybe the CCL offer looked better at the time?
This was posted online 2 days ago. 
 

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/more-than-130-australians-set-to-fly-home-after-stranded-zaandam-and-rotterdam-cruises-dock-in-us

[bluesea321]

Just now, Babr said:

Right. The first flight (charter) got them to SFO, but United refused at that point - hence a line for vouchers. Is the timeline off? When did the second charter fly?

 

The charter from FLL to SFO arrived in SFO last night (Friday night US).  I have no idea about a charter from there, that's Pushka's notion, not mine.

[Pushka]

6 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

The charter from FLL to SFO arrived in SFO last night (Friday night US).  I have no idea about a charter from there, that's Pushka's notion, not mine.

My link to this advice is being deleted here which I understand but it most certainly isn't my "notion". 

You should be able to google and find it yourself. 

Spoken by our Minister of Foreign Affairs. Australian Federal Government. 
 

"Australian Foreign Affairs Minister Marise Payne said an evacuation flight had been arranged for the Australians who were on Holland America's Zaandam and Rotterdam cruise liners.

The passengers will fly from Florida to the US west coast and then could be back in Australia on another flight "within 24 to 48 hours".

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Pushka

[bluesea321]

11 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Likely. Maybe the CCL offer looked better at the time?
This was posted online 2 days ago. 
 

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/more-than-130-australians-set-to-fly-home-after-stranded-zaandam-and-rotterdam-cruises-dock-in-us

 

Just read the article.  Is that a reliable news source?  I don't know.  Did the Aus. Gov. communicate with the passengers?   I hope somehow that they are all in the air or at home.  Keep in mind that a substantial number of pax were kept on the ship because they had COVID symptoms, not severe enough to hospitalize in the precious few hospital beds in S. FL.  I would anticipate that some of those pax that had to stay on the ship are also from down under so more yet to come....

 

And my use of the word "notion" was not negative, simply meant to convey that it came from your sources, not mine.

 

And that is all I know about this so over and out... 

Edited April 5, 2020 by bluesea321

[Pushka]

1 minute ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Just read the article.  Is that a reliable news source?  I don't know.  Did the Aus. Gov. communicate with the passengers?   I hope somehow that they are all in the air or at home.  Keep in mind that that a substantial number of pax were kept on the ship because they had COVID symptoms, not severe enough to hospitalize in the precious few hospital beds in the US.  I would anticipate that some of those pax that had to stay on the ship are also from down under so more yet to come....

 

And my use of the word "notion" was not negative, simply meant to convey that it came from your sources, not mine.

 

And that is all I know about this so over and out... 

 

It is a news service funded in part by the Australian Government and directly quotes Marisa Payne who is our Foreign Affairs Minister. 

[Aus Traveller]

7 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

Not to me.

Any humaritarian nation should allow uninfected individuals to disembark, be put on secure buses to the airport,

and immediately put on charter flights out of the country.

Although Australia is blocking all crew from doing this, ironically, this seems to be what the australians

who disembarked coral today in miami are asking for.

I think the USA should show the same humanitarian compassion as the australian government,

and invite them walk home.

If Australia wants to forever ban cruise ships ... given what's happened, sounds like a fine idea.

Maybe you are not aware that the German cruise ship, the Artania that had COVID positive cases on board was allowed to dock in Fremantle. Ill passengers were taken to hospitals (one has since died) and the others were flown home on chartered planes.

 

I agree with the sentiments that crew on the ships in Australian waters should be allowed to disembark so the cruise companies can repatriate them.

[Aus Traveller]

6 hours ago, Babr said:

 

At least the Aussies are asking the backpackers to leave because they aren’t following the rules. That is understandable. Too bad our government didn’t keep spring breakers off the beaches.

That is so. However, the government is not asking ALL backpackers to leave. The Prime Minister asked that those who do not have a job should go. I don't know how they will support themselves financially without work as they are not eligible for government support. The unemployed backpackers should have thought this through and gone home a couple of weeks ago when there were plenty of flights. Now they are whinging that they have no money and that the cost of flights has gone up.

 

The government is happy for the backpackers working on farms, or student nurses to stay.

[Aus Traveller]

5 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

But we have taken seriously ill crew members off the ships and taken care of them in the already burdened S. Florida hospitals.

As Australia has. At least six ill crew members from the Ruby Princess were taken to Sydney hospitals.

[DaveSJ711]

14 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

That is so. However, the government is not asking ALL backpackers to leave. The Prime Minister asked that those who do not have a job should go. I don't know how they will support themselves financially without work as they are not eligible for government support. The unemployed backpackers should have thought this through and gone home a couple of weeks ago when there were plenty of flights. Now they are whinging that they have no money and that the cost of flights has gone up.

 

The government is happy for the backpackers working on farms, or student nurses to stay.

 

Australians are well known for sending their youth off on gap years, and for welcoming gappers from other countries.  Apparently the welcome mat has been withdrawn.

[Aus Traveller]

3 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

Australians are well known for sending their youth off on gap years, and for welcoming gappers from other countries.  Apparently the welcome mat has been withdrawn.

The Australian government doesn't want thousands of unemployed backpackers partying (as they have been) and ignoring the rules of 'social distancing' put in place to slow the spread of the virus. The area of Sydney where there are a lot of backpacker hostels is a hot-spot of virus infections. I don't know how unemployed backpackers plan to support themselves now that a lot of jobs are on hold while the country deals with this crisis. It has been suggested they can leave Sydney and get jobs on farms - fruit picking etc, but they would have to undergo 14 days isolation first to ensure they don't spread the virus. 🙂

[SinbadThePorter]

Despite what the Australia Federal Government may want, there are still many cruise ships in Australian waters.

 

Ruby Princess is steaming up and down the coast off Sydney as she deals with the Covid-19 outbreak among her crew.

 

Sun Princess, Pacific Explorer, Carnival Spirit seem to heading for Gladstone, where QE2 is already at anchor.

 

Sea Princess, Pacific Dawn, Carnival Splendor are anchored off Brisbane.

 

Pacific Aria is heading to Melbourne, where Golden Princess is tied up.

 

The Artania is in Fremantle and refuses to move.

 

The RCI ships seem to be heading to Singapore.

 

The Australian government has the right to force these ships to sea if it wants. However, after persuasion and threats have failed, the only option left is force via the RAN. However, they are not bringing in navy gunboats to escort cruise ships outside of Australian waters. They are not that stupid (probably).

 

If the captains hold their ground I think their ships will probably be staying.

[Pushka]

1 hour ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

Australians are well known for sending their youth off on gap years, and for welcoming gappers from other countries.  Apparently the welcome mat has been withdrawn.

 

That is simply not true. All that the Government is doing is making sure that they have the financial means, or are working, to enable them to safely stay in Australia without expecting financial handouts. And of course, they continue to abide by our current health regulations. Tell me which country on earth is not doing the same?

[jagoffee]

This is a humanitarian crisis.  Based on some of these posts, this crisis is bringing out the worst in some people.  Every single human being whether a crew member or cruise passengers is due the full support of every country and community.  They must be taken care of ASAP in such a way as to not spread the virus.  Death ships not being supported cruising around the world is a sad situation.  History will judge us harshly.

IMO.

I am proud of the fact that our Federal and State governments allowed a couple ships to disembark and protect so many people (rejected by many other countries.).  Many people from the US, Canada, and U.K. were on those ships.  It had to be managed very carefully with isolation and quarantine measures.  Perhaps all Australians should have been put on one ship and transported to Australia for disembarkation.  
 

Follow the guidelines and be safe everyone.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by jagoffee

[DaveSJ711]

40 minutes ago, Pushka said:

 

That is simply not true. All that the Government is doing is making sure that they have the financial means, or are working, to enable them to safely stay in Australia without expecting financial handouts. And of course, they continue to abide by our current health regulations. Tell me which country on earth is not doing the same?

 

But does the "financial means" test represent a change in the Aussie approach to gap years?  My understanding has always been that gappers who visit Oz are encouraged to pursue either working or non-working adventures (e.g., volunteer opportunities).  If they must now work for pay while in Australia, then the welcome mat has indeed been withdrawn for those who seek a different in-country experience.

 

Full disclosure:  During my first visit to Australia, 40 years ago, I backpacked around parts of Victoria and New South Wales.  I didn't work at all, nor did I meet anybody who expected me to do so.

Edited April 5, 2020 by DaveSJ711

[Aus Traveller]

24 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

But does the "financial means" test represent a change in the Aussie approach to gap years?  My understanding has always been that gappers who visit Oz are encouraged to pursue either working or non-working adventures (e.g., volunteer opportunities).  If they must now work for pay while in Australia, then the welcome mat has indeed been withdrawn for those who seek a different in-country experience.

 

Full disclosure:  During my first visit to Australia, 40 years ago, I backpacked around parts of Victoria and New South Wales.  I didn't work at all, nor did I meet anybody who expected me to do so.

When you backpacked in Australia, I am sure that the government did not pay you money every week to not work. You could have worked fruit picking or in hospitality, but you must have had enough money to feed yourself and presumably pay for accommodation.  This is the problem.

 

Many of these young backpackers have lost their jobs (probably mainly casual work in coffee shops and restaurants that have been closed). While they were working they would have earned good money, but without work, they are now saying they have no money to pay for accommodation or for a flight home.

 

What 'welcome mat' are we supposed to extend? If they are prepared to work where work is available and follow the new laws to restrict the spread of the virus, I don't think anyone would criticize them. But hundreds of these young visitors are breaking the isolation rules - thousands crushed onto Bondi Beach and large groups partying like crazy. Are we supposed to just smile, then hand over $500 or so a week so they have enough for food and accommodation?

 

BTW, a lot of countries require visitors to have sufficient funds to support themselves during their visit. I don't know any country that would allow people to stay for extended periods of time relying on the generosity of the host country. At the moment that generosity could easily include expensive medical care.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Pushka]

31 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

But does the "financial means" test represent a change in the Aussie approach to gap years?  My understanding has always been that gappers who visit Oz are encouraged to pursue either working or non-working adventures (e.g., volunteer opportunities).  If they must now work for pay while in Australia, then the welcome mat has indeed been withdrawn for those who seek a different in-country experience.

 

Full disclosure:  During my first visit to Australia, 40 years ago, I backpacked around parts of Victoria and New South Wales.  I didn't work at all, nor did I meet anybody who expected me to do so.

Casual jobs other than in nursing and on the land have evaporated with the closure of hospitality. No restaurants or sit down cafes allowed across Australia. Basically they can't put their hand out for any government support. If they can manage being here with no work and no support then they can stay. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Pushka

[Pushka]

50 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

This is a humanitarian crisis.  Based on some of these posts, this crisis is bringing out the worst in some people.  Every single human being whether a crew member or cruise passengers is due the full support of every country and community.  They must be taken care of ASAP in such a way as to not spread the virus.  Death ships not being supported cruising around the world is a sad situation.  History will judge us harshly.

IMO.

I am proud of the fact that our Federal and State governments allowed a couple ships to disembark and protect so many people (rejected by many other countries.).  Many people from the US, Canada, and U.K. were on those ships.  It had to be managed very carefully with isolation and quarantine measures.  Perhaps all Australians should have been put on one ship and transported to Australia for disembarkation.  
 

Follow the guidelines and be safe everyone.  

 

Im not sure what you are referring to but all crew requiring medical treatment or hospital attention have been provided with that in Australia.