Appalling behavior by Oceania management

[JKrise]

18 hours ago, laserboi said:

.....After requesting a refund we were recently informed that Oceania has REFUSED the request, but will instead hold our full payment as a credit toward a future cruise.  In addition we were also informed that when we book the subsequent cruise we would be required to leave an addition amount of money as a deposit! 

 

You accepted the terms when you canceled.

Reading the fully story, your didn't do full dilegence, seek guidance from the company prior to canceling, have insurance and were quick to pull the trigger on canceling the cruise.  A cautious wait and see approach is always good. Look, in the end, you are getting a FCC. The company is not stealing your money. You made the choice to cancel under the terms in place at the time.  Chillax, research another cruise and wait for prices to drop (and they will).

[Shawnino]

Little/no sympathy for OP.

The federal government up here is a self-contradicting mess.

They can't even keep the trains running. So they are certainly nott going to make you whole if you don't do your own due diligence on the cruise line's current cancellation policies.

[Pigin]

21 hours ago, laserboi said:

I am writing this in an effort to sensitize the CC community of the appalling response of Oceania in light of the pandemic.  We are Canadian citizens and based on the travel advisory issued by our FEDERAL government, as a result of a PANDEMIC, we were advised to cancel our cruise scheduled to take place in April 2020.  As responsible citizens of our country, and in consideration of the worldwide health concerns and events taking place, we complied with the government-issued travel advisory and cancelled the trip.  Of course at that time Oceania had collected the full payment of the cruise.  After requesting a refund we were recently informed that Oceania has REFUSED the request, but will instead hold our full payment as a credit toward a future cruise.  In addition we were also informed that when we book the subsequent cruise we would be required to leave an addition amount of money as a deposit!  As of March 31 (two weeks prior to our cruise) Oceania cancelled all cruises, including the one I am writing about.  Passengers informed by Oceania as of March 31 of the cancellations are receiving a full refund, which is completely unfair.  What Oceania is suggesting by taking this approach is that intelligent passengers, who are heeding the advice of Federal authorities, should in fact ignore this advice and risk the possibility of being exposed to a contagion, which is ravaging almost every part of the globe.  We have made numerous requests to our TA, the President of the agency as well as Oceania with no suggestion of refunding our money similarly to all other passengers on our cancelled cruise.  I find this behavior socially IRresponsible and reckless.  Other cruise lines such as luxury line Seabourn is offering guests a full refund as well as discounts on future cruises. If there are other social media tags for Oceania you are aware of please include them in your reply.  I hope to blanket their social media pages.

 

https://www.facebook.com/oceaniacruises/

 

https://www.instagram.com/oceaniacruises/?hl=en

 

What sad times we live in.

 

The OP has made one of many arguments that can be made about the way CV is affecting the world and the many decisions that need to be made as a result. Governments, companies and individuals will always have their own self interest and self preservations foremost in their minds.

 

It seems to me that along with the travel advisory the OP was concerned about his/her own health and welfare.  At the time @laserboi took the decision to cancel, I can presume that the dollar versus living calculation played a heavy part in the calculation.  Has the value of putting health over money now somehow changed because someone further down the line might get something you didn't?  Come on @laserboi please get a grip and remember why it was you cancelled.  

 

If we are old enough and wise enough to be able to make our own decisions then we are old enough and wise enough to stick by them.  As for blanketing social media, I hope it helps you sleep at night. To O it will be water off a ducks back.  You just need to make sure that when people read your posts they dont think that you are an over privileged selfish brat who has nothing better to worry about than their bank balance.  

 

To everyone else who is being forced to put their health at risk, be it on a cruise ship or on the front line saving lives, I wish you all well and please stay safe and healthy.

 

 

 

 

[ORV]

9 hours ago, pingpong1 said:

An "informed choice" can only reasonably be made if one has available to them ALL OR MOST of the current information necessary to make that reasonable and intelligent choice.  When the "conditions" for making an original choice changes - the decision and options, as originally stated in the contract, are probably no longer "reasonable" and should be modified.

 

I will also state at the outset, that I do NOT believe that a "Future Cruise Credit - FFC" - even one that is reported to have a "value" of 125% of a previously paid amount of money, is not the "contractual equivalent" of an actual cash refund. I believe that many other Oceania customers also hold that same belief.  In the next 2 years, if Oceania raises all it's fares by 25%, the value of that advertised FFC is of no particular added benefit. 

 

In our case, we are booked on the 16-day "Riviera" Rome to Miami  T/A, departing Rome on 28 Oct 2020.  We booked that cruise in November 2018.  The "conditions of cruising" in the world today are greatly different from what they were, when we first booked that cruise 18-months ago.  Our final payment date is May 28, 2020 and our cancellation date (without any charged admin fee) is on or before April 30.  At the moment, Oceania's "Travelers Assurance Program" only applies to cruises that begin by September 30, 2020, so for now our cruise is not "covered" by that program.  It may, or may not be included by the time we enter our "penalty phase" (which I define as either having to pay an admin fee, or a percentage of my final/full payment).  There's no way of knowing that right now.

 

As I stated above, I do not consider a 125% FCC to be the "equivalent" of a full cash refund, in the event that I decided to cancel on my own, before the cruise embarks.  I have no idea at this point, whether I would ever be cruising on Oceania ever again, or any other cruise line, either due to health or personal preference reasons.  I certainly would have no idea in 2020, whether I would want to take another cruise - on any cruise line - before December 2022.  So, in order for me to make a final and more "informed" decision, would you happen to know the answers to the following questions?

 

What will be the "state" (from a Corona Virus standpoint) be in October/November in Italy, France, Spain, and Bermuda (the countries/ports for our planned itinerary), and the U.S.?  Will Italy be admitting airline flights, tourists, and cruise passengers from the U.S. in mid/late October?  Will Italy (and specifically, Rome, Florence, and Naples area ) be "open" for tourism - the Hotels, Restaurants, tourist sites, etc?  Will international flights actually be flying on a regular and frequent schedule between the U.S. and Italy?  Will Oceania actually be operating that particular cruise at all? - Oceania doesn't even know that at the moment!  I realize that if Oceania actually cancels that cruise on their own - that I will receive a cash refund - but that would be a "gamble" on my part, and not an "informed decision" to make.  And under present "policy", cash refunds are only given if Oceania cancels the cruise - not the passenger.  They are in complete control.  Will any mandatory quarantines be imposed on travelers arriving in Italy or returning back to the U.S. from a cruise ship in October/November?  No one knows.

 

No one, including Oceania, has actual answers to any of those questions - either now, on April 30,  on May 28 (when our final payment is currently due), or perhaps even in late July.  That is not Oceania's fault.....but it's not mine, either!  Under the present set of circumstances, the would-be passengers are having to take ALL THE RISK of these decisions on their own, with Oceania accepting none of the risk, at all.  These are not the conditions under which a passenger can presently make an "informed decision".

 

The most equitable thing, would be for Oceania to put off the "final payment date" for this cruise until perhaps August 28 - 2 months before the cruise departs, and give passengers who chose to cancel on their own the CHOICE (the passenger's choice - not Oceania's) to request a full cash refund, or accept the 125% FCC.  Oceania, right now, should announce that their "Assurance Program" is extended until the end of the calendar year.

 

Absent those revised conditions, I will be more inclined at this point (and with regret) to cancel our booking before May 28 (the final payment date), and just "eat" the $250 pp admin fee - to "buy myself" a bit more time to see "what's happening" in the world.  For us, if Oceania's travel options/offers don't change/improve within the next 2 months, Oceania gives us no opportunity to make a final "informed" decision that is closer to our actual cruise/travel date, and under the present "rules", Oceania would most likely and unfortunately lose us as customers, rather than possibly keeping us.    😟   Regards

Just cancel now and get your deposit back, no FCC required. Avoid all the angst you'll go through between now and then. . 

[LJRVancouver]

I am very dismayed and furious at the general irresponsibility of the cruise industry with respect to the COVID 19 pandemic. Following the outbreak on Diamond Princess and other ships at the end of January/beginning of February the devastating impact of infection and rate of transmission aboard cruise ships became world headlines. By the end of February, it was very evident COVID 19 was rapidly spreading throughout the world and was not just a China issue, yet the cruise industry continued to embark on new cruises. And then as situation became more dire did not halt the cruises and send passengers home. It was only when ports began closing did, they begin to suspend all cruises. This action in my opinion, will decimate the cruise industry. All the press coverage of stranded ships with thousands of passengers and crew will send future cruisers fleeing.

Meanwhile Oceania have only suspended cruises until May 11^th and does not include a cruise I am booked on embarking on May 25^th in UK with ports of call in France and Spain. All 3 of these countries are in the top 10 countries with respect to COVID 19. My pre and post accommodations in UK have been cancelled by suppliers as they have been mandated to close.  And who knows whether any international flights will be available (we Canadians are being prepared that the social isolation will need to continue for at least a few more months to be effective against COVID 19). To me Oceania is not all that concerned about passenger safety but rather their bottom line. OK we can cancel up to 48 hours for a FCC but why should Oceania have use of my $$$ for yet another year- I would prefer a refund.

 

This is an unprecedented time worldwide and citizens of the world are being asked to take extraordinary  measures to break the chain of infection. Yet Oceania seems to rely on the fine print of their contracts rather than what is ethically correct. Just saying if this is their response they better not apply for any government handouts.

[bob brown]

57 minutes ago, ORV said:

Just cancel now and get your deposit back, no FCC required. Avoid all the angst you'll go through between now and then. . 

I agree with this answer to pingpong1....

You're fortunate to still have all your option's on the table, and be in complete control of your booking.   And if the cruises you desire do eventually operate, I'm confident that you will have no problem rebooking them, and probably at a great savings to boot...

[LHT28]

57 minutes ago, LJRVancouver said:

Meanwhile Oceania have only suspended cruises until May 11^th and does not include a cruise I am booked on embarking on May 25^th in UK with ports of call in France and Spain. All 3 of these countries are in the top 10 countries with respect to COVID 19.

Take a breath  & wait   a bit the next round of cancellations will be here soon

No one is going to be sailing  in the next  few months

 Oceania & other lines are cancelling about a month at a time

If they cancelled all the cruises for the next  6 mths in one swoop  their phones would blow up  with all the calls

Stay  home, stay safe

 

[LJRVancouver]

We are waiting with baited breath for O to cancel - have not yet cancelled ourselves. Flights, accommodation, ground transport, meeting up with UK family & friends all cancelled.  Just think behavior of the cruise industry will have major impact on the industry going forward. Have lost count of the number of friends, including avid cruisers who now say they will think twice before stepping aboard another cruise ship.

Edited April 4, 2020 by LJRVancouver

[commodore2010]

On 4/4/2020 at 1:41 AM, Guindalf said:

Where's the 'Appalling Behavior By Oceania Cruise Passengers' thread?

 

So many people think that after THEY decide to cancel, the cruise line has any obligation to backdate their offer when they cancel the cruise for whatever reason - and they want MORE than they paid, too!

 

Sorry, but it doesn't work like that. You decided to cancel so you got the current offer of FCC. Your booking no longer exists, so when O cancelled the cruise, you had made your choice and they have no further obligation to you. End of.

 

You paid the money expecting to cruise. O was generous enough to extend an offer of a FCC, but that's not good enough. They should bend over and take it up the rear because you're not happy with your choice. Sorry, doesn't work like that.

 

I had a cruise booked to Alaska on Princess, supposedly leaving Vancouver on May 17th. We know it's not happening, but P hasn't yet cancelled it - in fact it's still possible to book. However, we had until March 22nd to cancel and get 100% refunded (less $200 deposit in FCC) before it went to 50/50 refund/FCC. We took it and have no more to do with it. If P offers 200% FCC tomorrow, we can be disappointed if we would rather have held on and taken it, but we have what we got and no more.

 

If people weren't so self-centered and greedy, perhaps the threads about cruise lines going bankrupt wouldn't be needed!

 

 

 

Agree 1000%  

[excited cruise traveler]

A lot of the posts are of this topic are made by the so-called "Entitlement Society". People think they are either special or do not have to abide by business rules. I really do not feel for them, we have so far had 2 cruises w. Oceania cancelled, we took one FFC, opted for a full refund on another and  and are currently debating of either cancelling before the final pmt., get a full refund  or wait to see whether we will take another FFC or wait to see if Oceania cancels the cruise. The process was fair and efficient. Please you all, be more understanding of the current situation they are in. Oceania did not ask for this pandemic as well.

 

[pingpong1]

8 minutes ago, excited cruise traveler said:

A lot of the posts are of this topic are made by the so-called "Entitlement Society". People think they are either special or do not have to abide by business rules. I really do not feel for them, we have so far had 2 cruises w. Oceania cancelled, we took one FFC, opted for a full refund on another and  and are currently debating of either cancelling before the final pmt., get a full refund  or wait to see whether we will take another FFC or wait to see if Oceania cancels the cruise. The process was fair and efficient. Please you all, be more understanding of the current situation they are in. Oceania did not ask for this pandemic as well.

 

With all due respect (sort of), "business rules" are made based upon "conditions on the ground" (the business environment) that was in place when "the rules" were originally made - by them, not me, and what they could "get away with".  And those rules were based upon what minimum and least-expensive accommodations (to the customer) the cruise lines had to provide, in order to maintain an acceptable (to them) volume of customers, who were willing to accept those "rules" in order to obtain the product that was being sold at the time.

 

When that business environment changed (and it certainly now has), the "business rules" also need to change to meet the new reality.  Is the customer (in this case, a traveler who likes to take cruises and has an above-average amount of disposable income to spend) "entitled" to compare various cruise products, prices, and associated T&C's?  Absolutely they are!  For most of us, cruising is a highly discretionary product.  No one has an "absolute need" to cruise!  If I never went on another cruise in my life, I would get along just fine - Especially, under the current world environment, where taking a cruise today in the next 6-8 months could more than just theoretically wind up "killing you"!

 

Unlike several months ago - the cruise lines are no longer "in charge" of making a set of "rules" that customers have to slavishly accept and abide by.  For the foreseeable future, It is now very much going to be a "customer's market", and the way individual cruise lines adapt and meet the "customer's business requirements", will determine whether those cruise lines remain in business or go out of existence - now, a very real possibility for some companies!

 

For probably the next year, the cruise industry is NOT going to be holding all "the marbles".  Certainly throughout the rest of 2020, the industry is going to barely be holding on by their finger-nails.  Presently, and probably well into 2021, NCLH's current total liabilities more-than-minimally exceed their total available assets.  I play a very small part in helping them meet their bills, if they are willing to "work" with me.  That's not a matter of me feeling "entitled".  That's just a new business reality, for them (not me).  If they provide me with more flexibility by extending/relaxing the final payment date for my still presently booked cruise, and give me the added insurance of being able to choose a cash refund, rather than only an FCC, I'll consider keeping that still-booked cruise in late October on "Riviera".  However, if they remain "intransigent" about following their own (now outdated) set of "business rules", which only favors them, then they can find someone else to fill their ships during what's left of this year's cruising schedule.  Regards           

[Pies4u]

1 hour ago, excited cruise traveler said:

A lot of the posts are of this topic are made by the so-called "Entitlement Society". People think they are either special or do not have to abide by business rules. I really do not feel for them, we have so far had 2 cruises w. Oceania cancelled, we took one FFC, opted for a full refund on another and  and are currently debating of either cancelling before the final pmt., get a full refund  or wait to see whether we will take another FFC or wait to see if Oceania cancels the cruise. The process was fair and efficient. Please you all, be more understanding of the current situation they are in. Oceania did not ask for this pandemic as well.

 

 

Fascinating. All I know is that I have paid Oceania c £20,500 for a cruise that they have now cancelled. I've received a "100%" refund offer of c 75% of that figure and a FCC of less than 100%. Personally, I believe that is unsatisfactory and whilst the pandemic is not Oceania's fault, it certainly isn't mine.

 

Unless & until I receive an appropriate refund I remain slightly dubious and very sceptical about Oceania's position in respect of refunding customers. It is that simple really.

[LHT28]

18 minutes ago, Pies4u said:

 

Fascinating. All I know is that I have paid Oceania c £20,500 for a cruise that they have now cancelled. I've received a "100%" refund offer of c 75% of that figure and a FCC of less than 100%.

 When was the cruise cancelled?

 Are you getting a 100% refund  or 75%?  very confusing post

 Did you get the refund already?

[Pies4u]

6 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

 When was the cruise cancelled?

 Are you getting a 100% refund  or 75%?  very confusing post

 Did you get the refund already?

 

What is confusing? No, I have not received a refund - merely an offer, but it is not for 100% of the fare paid, is c 75%. The FCC is nowhere near 125% of the fare paid. Oceania cancelled the cruise approx 2 weeks before the departure date.

 

The details are set out on the "refund' thread so I didn't repeat them, simply provided a summary in response to the previous poster who seems to think people are " being greedy" by expecting their money back for a cruise they have not had! 

[Paulchili]

10 minutes ago, Pies4u said:

No, I have not received a refund - merely an offer, but it is not for 100% of the fare paid, is c 75%

Assuming that you have inquired about this, what is the answer/explanation Oceania is giving to you or your TA?

If they have not yet provided an explanation you should insist that they explain themselves.

[WFHFLOYD]

I have a cruise reserved, with a $1500 deposit, for October 2021.  Am I correct in assuming that should I cancel at this time I would get back my entire $1500?  I am concerned about Oceania's ability to survive all this mess, and cannot and do not want to absorb the haircut in my deposited money.   Truth be told, I haven't read every word of fine print, so I am relying on the good nature and knowledge of you fellow posters to confirm that I can get all my money back until, say 180 days out.  (if they last that long)  thanks for the info.  

[Pies4u]

They have silent a week looking into it, promised to run me on Thurs or Fri last week, didn't, and I've still heard nothing more from them. Sent another e.mail today, so I'll see what tomorrow brings.

 

Only saving grace is that the Customer Service dept accepted that the figures "looked wrong" but that is scant consolation at present. Plus, as they want a decision on the refund or FCC issue as soon as possible, it makes it a tad difficult as I was expecting a far better FCC offer, which I might well have considered favourably. Now, I think I'd go for the refund but not at the amount they have quoted!

[Paulchili]

4 minutes ago, Pies4u said:

Now, I think I'd go for the refund but not at the amount they have quoted!

I would - A bird in hand......

Who knows what the future of cruising will be. You can always re-book that cruise later.

[LHT28]

7 minutes ago, Pies4u said:

Only saving grace is that the Customer Service dept accepted that the figures "looked wrong" but that is scant consolation at present. Plus, as they want a decision on the refund or FCC issue as soon as possible, it makes it a tad difficult as I was expecting a far better FCC offer, which I might well have considered favourably. Now, I think I'd go for the refund but not at the amount they have quoted!

I would ask for the full refund  

As Paul says you can always rebook later

 

 

[LHT28]

14 minutes ago, WFHFLOYD said:

I have a cruise reserved, with a $1500 deposit, for October 2021.  Am I correct in assuming that should I cancel at this time I would get back my entire $1500?  I am concerned about Oceania's ability to survive all this mess, and cannot and do not want to absorb the haircut in my deposited money.   Truth be told, I haven't read every word of fine print, so I am relying on the good nature and knowledge of you fellow posters to confirm that I can get all my money back until, say 180 days out.  (if they last that long)  thanks for the info.  

If you are in  North America  you should receive  a full refund of the deposit  if you cancel now

[Mura]

2 hours ago, WFHFLOYD said:

I have a cruise reserved, with a $1500 deposit, for October 2021.  Am I correct in assuming that should I cancel at this time I would get back my entire $1500?  I am concerned about Oceania's ability to survive all this mess, and cannot and do not want to absorb the haircut in my deposited money.   Truth be told, I haven't read every word of fine print, so I am relying on the good nature and knowledge of you fellow posters to confirm that I can get all my money back until, say 180 days out.  (if they last that long)  thanks for the info.  

As Lyn said, if you are in North America, yes, cancel now and you get your deposit back.

 

For people in other countries, we can't say for sure.  I've seen some posts that say that Australians and Brits don't have the guarantees we in N.A. do.  BUT ... you would be cancelling awfully early.

 

In the U.S. going back quite a while, if we cancelled 90 days in advance we got our deposit back.  Oceania later made that time frame 121 days.  Cancelling before the final payment date was certainly the best thing to do, but with the newer restrictions in order to avoid an administrative fee you needed to cancel even before that.  Our TA always gave us that cut-off date, AS did our invoices.

 

So first thing:  look at your invoice.  Not just the first page!

 

 

[clo]

2 hours ago, WFHFLOYD said:

I have a cruise reserved, with a $1500 deposit, for October 2021.  Am I correct in assuming that should I cancel at this time I would get back my entire $1500?  I am concerned about Oceania's ability to survive all this mess, and cannot and do not want to absorb the haircut in my deposited money.   Truth be told, I haven't read every word of fine print, so I am relying on the good nature and knowledge of you fellow posters to confirm that I can get all my money back until, say 180 days out.  (if they last that long)  thanks for the info.  

We canceled a Sept. cruise a few weeks ago and got the full $1500 credit to our credit card within days.

[clo]

42 minutes ago, Mura said:

So first thing:  look at your invoice.  Not just the first page!

 

Yep. We had until early May. Did it now as we're pretty confident that the stock market's not going to improve sufficiently by even final payment date. And since I truly believe that there won't be a tested and strong vaccine by then, then we won't sail by then anyway. Maybe next spring. Maybe.

[Medeba]

8 hours ago, Mura said:

For people in other countries, we can't say for sure.  I've seen some posts that say that Australians and Brits don't have the guarantees we in N.A. do.  BUT ... you would be cancelling awfully early.

We are in the UK.  I cancelled a December 2020 cruise a couple of weeks ago and Oceania agreed to pay back the deposit in full.  My TA is organising this but I was told to expect payment within 6 to 8 weeks.  My cruise is still showing in my Oceania account.

[WFHFLOYD]

thanks to each of you.  I am in the US (Ct, metro NYC) and I will cancel shortly and let you know when the refund comes through.  Be safe and stay at home.  Please