Repairing a trashed image

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

The world will change in some way I would rather the companies just admit they don't what will happen in the future and act like this is a unique global situation, not just business as usual.

 

While I don't think you're wrong, I also believe that if companies do that it can scare investors and they are likely to see even more drops in stock value and perhaps create unnecessary panic at a time when we don't need panic....

 

I have worked in companies that are in the same line of business -- one was publicly traded, one was privately owned -- the two companies have entirely different criteria for how they make (and communicate) decisions.

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by cruisemom42

[Joebucks]

Few people take the "never again because I was mildly inconvenienced" crowd seriously. A good chunk of them are either not serious, will forget, or if they are serious, will likely find themselves in similar scenarios in the future, with a competitor. Some people love to be angry.

 

Come back and ask this question again once the cruise lines can "prove" that the threat is gone. If they even need to, they can throw out all types of offers for cheaper cruises/drinks. Tell me then that any significant amount of people will be like "I deserved faster treatment during a pandemic, it's not enough!"

[Nic6318]

7 hours ago, InDaPast said:

Yes, I definitely will judge a cruise company on how they've dealt with their customer's deposits. It won't be the only consideration on who gets my money, but will count for a major part of my decision making for my next cruise. (I have no deposits on any cruise now).

 

For many folks, the money paid for a cruise might be substantial for them. Having that money tied up for a FCC for a long time for a trip that may or may not be able to make, might be very worrisome to them.

 

 

 

Hi

 

Good. You are allowed to use your judgement. You are allowed to not cruise again. You have always had that option. Nothing has changed in that regard.

 

What exactly is the problem for you? What are you looking for here? 

 

Many have said they may not sail again because they are scared. Many are reevaluating, sometimes because of their age, whether cruising is what they are looking for. Many simply wont consider cruising again in any near time because they feel this can all repeat itself. I have suggested some of those companies may not even be there in the future. Nobody has said that they will never cruise again because of the way the cruise lines have dealt with refunds. 

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I understand what you are saying but I think there are certain issues which IMO a pandemic is one of them that are better served with honesty and transparency that will probably reduce panic than pretending everything is ok. Most of the public know this is an unprecedented event and they know it will not go away anytime soon so trying to sell any story opposite to this hardly going to instill confidence, it just makes them look like fools who are treating their investors like fools. What you want is a realistic assesment of what can and can't be done. This is not the time to sell a dream. We have seen it with political leaders and even some business leaders, in those countries where the leaders are honest about what they don't know as much as what they do know have less panic and higher optimism rates.

 

Good and frequent communications to customers are very important at these times. There is a difference between those and financial communications though. The market panics over every little thing and does not like uncertainty -- this is true in good times or bad times.

 

Cruise lines could be doing so much better with regard to communications. I cruise with a number of lines and I currently have not received emails from any of them that are as good and relevant as the ones I receive on a weekly basis from the chair of Delta airlines talking about what they are doing for passengers, what they are doing for frequent flyers, what they are doing for their employees and crew.  They seem to have a better handle on the need to be good corporate citizens at a time like this and to be transparent about the challenges they are facing.

 

With regard to some other posts on cruise lines and refunds, I am not fully up to date on what all cruise lines are doing. On cruises canceled by the lines, aren't they offering full refunds (or more generous, say 125% or 150% if opting for future credits)?  And if customers cancel, most of the lines seem to have instituted more generous cancellation policies than have ever been in place previously....  At what point in this crisis (not of their making) do we realize that we may sustain some losses if we did not insure our "investment"?

[ceilidh1]

Interesting discussion. I had two cruises cancelled - one on Princess and one on Carnival. I have received no refund back for either one of them at this point and we are now at day 26. I was 100% ready to book another cruise the day the cancellations were announced. I WILL cruise again - the sooner the better for me. However, what I will NOT do is put out any more money to the cruise line until they make good from their end and refund my port fees and refundable amounts. That money will then go toward the deposit for the newly booked cruise. Maybe I am alone in thinking this way, but if the cruise companies really want us to show our loyalty by rebooking with them then speeding up the refund process would be to their advantage.

[navybankerteacher]

37 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

...

 

Maybe I am alone in thinking this way, but if the cruise companies really want us to show our loyalty by rebooking with them then speeding up the refund process would be to their advantage.

It is important to look at cruise lines the way they look at you. While you may prefer one line over others, the interaction should always be transactional - not relationship.   The notion of being loyal to a line is insane - do you really think they are loyal to you - every time they sell you a cabin is a new transaction for them - if they felt they could sell that cabin to someone else for $1 more, do you think they would hesitate?

 

You should book a cruise because you like the itinerary, the dates work for you, you prefer the size and ambience of the ship, and the price is within your budget.  Basing your decision on having previously sailed with the line is nuts - previous experience may give you specific knowledge —— but LOYALTY????

BULL!!!!

[CruisingAlong4Now]

4 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Basing your decision on having previously sailed with the line is nuts - previous experience may give you specific knowledge —— but LOYALTY????

BULL!!!!

 

People may be calling it Loyalty, but I think it's really the comfort that comes from knowing the product compared with another cruise line and the unknown product.  Even within the same cruiseline, people are "loyal" to a particular ship because they have sailed on it and "know" the ship.

[ceilidh1]

7 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

It is important to look at cruise lines the way they look at you. While you may prefer one line over others, the interaction should always be transactional - not relationship.   The notion of being loyal to a line is insane - do you really think they are loyal to you - every time they sell you a cabin is a new transaction for them - if they felt they could sell that cabin to someone else for $1 more, do you think they would hesitate?

 

You should book a cruise because you like the itinerary, the dates work for you, you prefer the size and ambience of the ship, and the price is within your budget.  Basing your decision on having previously sailed with the line is nuts - previous experience may give you specific knowledge —— but LOYALTY????

BULL!!!!

I guess I use "loyalty" a little differently to your definition. I consider myself a "loyal" Princess cruiser simply because I prefer their product over others - whether this is itinerary, ship. crew, experience, etc. Being "loyal" to them doesn't mean I refuse to sail with other lines - I've pretty much tried them all. I come back to Princess so often because that is my preference. I will rebook with both Princess AND Carnival (and FWIW I don't love Carnival but my kids do....) as soon as my refund is processed.....

[navybankerteacher]

4 minutes ago, CruisingAlong4Now said:

 

People may be calling it Loyalty, but I think it's really the comfort that comes from knowing the product compared with another cruise line and the unknown product.  Even within the same cruiseline, people are "loyal" to a particular ship because they have sailed on it and "know" the ship.

That is not “loyalty” — it is utilizing knowledge learned from experience. I have a preference for Oceania and Azamera (even Cunard, when I want a large ship or a trans-Atlantic ferry) but that is exercised preference, not loyalty.

[Charles4515]

Not only customers, some ports may cancel the cruise lines for a long time to come. If the cruise lines had went on hiatus when Diamond Princess happened they probably would have been okay down the line. But out of greed they kept sailing. If they recover it may take years.


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[clo]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

Not only customers, some ports may cancel the cruise lines for a long time to come. If the cruise lines had went on hiatus when Diamond Princess happened they probably would have been okay down the line. But out of greed they kept sailing. If they recover it may take years.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

I think the reaction has been "Oh no, not again!" I agree with you.

[InDaPast]

35 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 Basing your decision on having previously sailed with the line is nuts - previous experience may give you specific knowledge —— but LOYALTY????

BULL!!!!

 

I don't know if my feelings are "normal" (probably would depend on if I take my meds), but I'm loyal to certain businesses based on things they've done which showed they actually gave a damn about having me as a customer.

 

I don't have enough experience with the travel industry to have developed any loyalty toward a company, but I'm  learning from this board how some companies are treating their customers who have been loyal to them. As previously stated, I'll take that into account when I take my next cruise.

Edited April 5, 2020 by InDaPast
forgot the butt, I mean but

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

That is not “loyalty” — it is utilizing knowledge learned from experience. I have a preference for Oceania and Azamera (even Cunard, when I want a large ship or a trans-Atlantic ferry) but that is exercised preference, not loyalty.

 

I think a lot (lots) of people use the term loyalty for exactly that.  I suppose someone can be loyal to a brand for any number of different reasons.  Why would it matter.      

[MrRandal]

On 4/3/2020 at 3:50 PM, InDaPast said:

 

I've read the overwhelming number of posts about difficulties folks have had in trying to get their money back & the roadblocks that have been put in place by the same companies noted above.

 

As an aside, is there a cruise line that has acted above board with all of their customers (not just in isolated occurrences) in promptly refunding monies paid? If there is, that company should be at the top of anyone's potential cruise list.

 

 

My wife and I felt it prudent to cancel our first Viking cruise, a 13 day Med cruise, Barcelona to Venice, that is scheduled in early October. I'm not comfortable that we will be comfortable either flying or cruising this fall, even if the airline was able to get us there, and the cruise was still scheduled to sail considering the cruise starts and ends in the 2 countries that have been most decimated by this scourge. As well, we're not confident in any cruise line's, not just Viking, viability considering what they will be facing to get back up and running. It's going to be a massive challenge, as many on this thread have pointed out. We felt it was in our best interest to cancel and request a refund. I called Viking this past Tuesday, was greeted within 2-3 minutes, spoke to an agent who was incredibly responsive, fully understood my reasoning for cancelling and requesting a refund instead of FCC. Within 48 hours I had every penny I had paid Viking back on my AMEX, minus $100 p/p cancellation fee, and the $1630 we paid Viking for our TripMate Insurance. Amazingly, we have received a $1630 FCC for our insurance.  AMEX wired $9999 to our checking account, and we will receive a check from them for the balance in 3-5 days, something about reporting laws for wire transfers of 10K or over. We have 24 months to rebook a cruise, not sail, but rebook, to use the FCC. If and when the industry gets back up and running, there's a vaccine and robust treatment for this virus, planes are flying, ports are open and Viking is still sailing, they will most definitely get our business. We could not have asked for a more professional response to our request to cancel. Kudos to Viking.

[ceilidh1]

17 minutes ago, MrRandal said:

 

My wife and I felt it prudent to cancel our first Viking cruise, a 13 day Med cruise, Barcelona to Venice, that is scheduled in early October. I'm not comfortable that we will be comfortable either flying or cruising this fall, even if the airline was able to get us there, and the cruise was still scheduled to sail considering the cruise starts and ends in the 2 countries that have been most decimated by this scourge. As well, we're not confident in any cruise line's, not just Viking, viability considering what they will be facing to get back up and running. It's going to be a massive challenge, as many on this thread have pointed out. We felt it was in our best interest to cancel and request a refund. I called Viking this past Tuesday, was greeted within 2-3 minutes, spoke to an agent who was incredibly responsive, fully understood my reasoning for cancelling and requesting a refund instead of FCC. Within 48 hours I had every penny I had paid Viking back on my AMEX, minus $100 p/p cancellation fee, and the $1630 we paid Viking for our TripMate Insurance. Amazingly, we have received a $1630 FCC for our insurance.  AMEX wired $9999 to our checking account, and we will receive a check from them for the balance in 3-5 days, something about reporting laws for wire transfers of 10K or over. We have 24 months to rebook a cruise, not sail, but rebook, to use the FCC. If and when the industry gets back up and running, there's a vaccine and robust treatment for this virus, planes are flying, ports are open and Viking is still sailing, they will most definitely get our business. We could not have asked for a more professional response to our request to cancel. Kudos to Viking.

Great to hear a positive experience from the refund process. I believe yours is the first I have heard at this point! Thanks for letting us know!

[MrRandal]

17 hours ago, ceilidh1 said:

Great to hear a positive experience from the refund process. I believe yours is the first I have heard at this point! Thanks for letting us know!

 

My Brother in Law had an Alaska Viking Cruise scheduled to leave Vancouver on July 7, which he cancelled. He paid by eCheck, and received his refund with a direct deposit to his bank within 48 hours as well. Again, Kudos to Viking for their prompt response.

[OnTheJourney]

On 4/5/2020 at 8:28 PM, InDaPast said:

 

I wonder if that's US or CAD dollars.

 

If a local shop is in fact gouging their customers, they're sure shooting themselves in the foot. If it's because their wholesale price went sky high, a notice explaining that would go a long way to keeping customer goodwill.

 

If you really want to see gouging, just check out toilet paper on eBay. And yet, people are jumping all over it. Bids starting at .01 that wind up going $50-60 or more for a few rolls. THEN...add in another $20-30 for shipping in some cases. How many vendors get away with this sort of thing is that the stated price may be low, but then the shipping is outrageously overpriced. I've literally seen like maybe $8-9 for a small quantity of TP but then shipping costs of $50+

 

As to the topic at hand, however, I think people are often too much in a hurry nowadays - for everything. It is the nature of our society, e.g. the guy behind you blows the horn if you fail to move your car within 2 seconds after the light turns green, etc. The cruise companies, like many other businesses, are going through an unprecedented time. My TA has called Royal Caribbean several times to try and sort out details on just my one cruise that was canceled and will be refunded via FCC. They (both the TAs and cruise personnel) are swamped with emails and calls. My TA was putting in 12+ hour days - sounded totally exhausted the one night she called me close to 10 p.m. and still at the AAA office. So I think the cruise lines will do right by everyone who was affected by a cancellation but it's not going to sort itself out in only a few weeks time. As for a tarnished image - that is for history books and the consumers to weigh in on. Cruisers are probably among a group that contains the most dedicated of all travelers, and so most of us are anxiously awaiting schedules to reopen. That being said, there is certainly a high level of fear going forward regardless of what happens with vaccine and/or drug treatment for CV. For some folks, this will quite possibly sway them off from future travel - in many different modes. For others, the level of paranoia could be enough to convince them to never leave home again - to go anywhere - without a mask. I don't like the idea of living in a world where you feel you can no longer do the things that you want to. For many of us, that are retired especially, we enjoy travel - or else wouldn't be here on CC. So it remains to be seen which way the scale tips - more skewed towards the side of caution, i.e. "I probably won't cruise again for a long time - or maybe not at all", "I'll probably never fly again", etc. versus continuing to enjoy life - which, after all, is short enough to begin with - and is full of sorts of risks - long before CV came along.  

Edited April 7, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[Ombud]

On 4/4/2020 at 9:02 AM, InDaPast said:

I believe the airline situation is entirely different. Folks HAVE to fly.....to do business, to socialize at the destination, have a vacation, etc.

Not really. Business meetings have gone online ... socializing at a destination & vacations are also optional and don't REQUIRE a flight which is leading to their issues. That can be done within driving distances 

[InDaPast]

43 minutes ago, Ombud said:

Not really. Business meetings have gone online ... socializing at a destination & vacations are also optional and don't REQUIRE a flight which is leading to their issues. That can be done within driving distances 

 

You are correct in what you say & I agree.

 

However, my comparing the 2 industries was given in the context of why folks cruise or fly. Flying is done if the traveler desires to get somewhere. Cruising for most folks is a vacation within itself. IOWs, folks don't board planes & when they get off say, "Wow, that was a fun vacation"

[Ombud]

This is just my opinion:

 

True but I read elsewhere (and I agree) that there seems to be 3 types of cruisers:

1. Cruising for shipboard experiences (sea days)

2. Cruising to get from 1 place to another (port intensive)

3. New cruisers 

#1 will be back asap.  #2 might not be back. #3 taking longer but people have short memories (911, Sars, Mers)

Edited April 7, 2020 by Ombud

[clo]

11 minutes ago, Ombud said:

This is just my opinion:

 

True but I read elsewhere (and I agree) that there seems to be 3 types of cruisers:

1. Cruising for shipboard experiences (sea days)

2. Cruising to get from 1 place to another (port intensive)

3. New cruisers 

#1 will be back asap.  #2 might not be back. #3 taking longer but people have short memories (911, Sars, Mers)

#2

[navybankerteacher]

1 minute ago, clo said:

#2

A lot of the #2 folk will come to realize that it makes more sense to do land travel.  If they are more interested in seeing places than in shipboard experience, they will realize that a half dozen several-hour snapshots are not worth as much as two three-day stays, or perhaps three two-day stays, if they seriously want to experience an area.

[clo]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

A lot of the #2 folk will come to realize that it makes more sense to do land travel.  If they are more interested in seeing places than in shipboard experience, they will realize that a half dozen several-hour snapshots are not worth as much as two three-day stays, or perhaps three two-day stays, if they seriously want to experience an area.

Yup. The cruise that we would be on right now (the Norwegian coast) also included time in Oslo, train to Bergen, time in Bergen. After the cruise we were to fly to Paris for five nights. In the last two plus years we've done three cruises and they've all involved land also. The Baltic/Scandinavian would have had pre and post and we were mainly doing it because it covered far more ports than we could have realistically done on our own in two weeks. We would miss tons but at this time in our lives we have to pick and choose sometimes. Our most recent cruise was Rio to Buenos Aires with time pre/post in both cities. We loved sailing Oceania but commented that had we really thought it through we'd have flown to Rio, spent a week and then flown to BA for another week.

[iancal]

We are #2 with the exception that since retirement we only consider a cruise when we are on an extended land trip.  And then only if we are close to the port, can get to the port easily, and it is well priced last minute verandah cabin.  Other than that, the shine went off cruising often some time ago.    

Edited April 7, 2020 by iancal

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, Ombud said:

This is just my opinion:

 

True but I read elsewhere (and I agree) that there seems to be 3 types of cruisers:

1. Cruising for shipboard experiences (sea days)

2. Cruising to get from 1 place to another (port intensive)

3. New cruisers 

#1 will be back asap.  #2 might not be back. #3 taking longer but people have short memories (911, Sars, Mers)

 

I'm # 1.5 because I like both the destinations and the ship experience.