FCC for over 70 update

[greykitty]

6 minutes ago, zonacruiser25 said:

In case others were wondering, I will save you having to google this:  Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments

CLIA. Abbreviation for Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments. Federal legislation and the personnel and procedures established by it under the aegis of the Health Care Financing Administration (HCFA) for the surveillance and regulation of all clinical laboratory procedures in the United States.

 Or, google will tell you - CLIA has a web site and everything!  It was this CLIA that was working with VP Pence.

 

Established in 1975, Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) is the world’s largest cruise industry trade association, providing a unified voice and leading authority of the global cruise community. CLIA supports policies and practices that foster a safe, secure, healthy and sustainable cruise ship environment and is dedicated to promoting the cruise travel experience.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by greykitty

[Sunshine3601]

36 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

We can all hope that a virus and cure will be available by end of 2020 and then we can all use our fcc's in 2021 as I think once the CLIA feels confident the virus is no longer a threat they will lift the requirement for the doctors note and other health restrictions for those under 70.    At least that is what I hope will happen.   

For now, I still hold out hope that we can do our b2b for the Baltic and Norwegian fjords this August.  

Stay positive and we will all get thru this.

I am referring to Cruise Line International Association (CLIA) in my above post not the other abbreviation someone else provided. 

[emdia43]

3 hours ago, zonacruiser25 said:

Still trying to figure out how or who is being benefited from this.  The passenger that may get sick/die while on the cruise?  What about getting the cruise insurance developed to ACTUALLY cover circumstances/conditions to treat and/or remove/evacuate a passenger over 70 and make this a mandatory option to purchase if they want to cruise.  Or is it just to further indemnify the cruise line from any lawsuits?  I think if I had or have a condition when I reach 70, the right insurance could make sense for me to be able to cruise and I would just need to figure that into my cost for the cruise.

It's all about shifting liability from the cruiseline to the poor Physician. 

This policy was developed in a time of crisis and national emergency. It is not going to survive once this pandemic is over. You cannot deny public accommodations to people because of disability.    

[Captain Billy Bob]

12 minutes ago, emdia43 said:

 

This policy was developed in a time of crisis and national emergency. It is not going to survive once this pandemic is over. You cannot deny public accommodations to people because of disability.    

I agree with you here but being 70 and over isn't a disability, is it? 🙂

Cheers! 🍸🍸

Edited April 9, 2020 by Captain Billy Bob

[suzyluvs2cruise]

40 minutes ago, zonacruiser25 said:

In case others were wondering, I will save you having to google this:  Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments

CLIA. Abbreviation for Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments. Federal legislation and the personnel and procedures established by it under the aegis of the Health Care Financing Administration (HCFA) for the surveillance and regulation of all clinical laboratory procedures in the United States.

 

CLIA is Cruise Line International Association.      Cruise Line International Association

[LMaxwell]

9 minutes ago, emdia43 said:

It's all about shifting liability from the cruiseline to the poor Physician. 

This policy was developed in a time of crisis and national emergency. It is not going to survive once this pandemic is over. You cannot deny public accommodations to people because of disability.    

 

Are people being denied public accommodations? 

 

I think the US govt is going to require cruise lines to have much more robust plans in place to handle potential isolation or quarantine issues.  Cruise lines are going to look to limit their liability, or what they perceive to be exposed risk, as much as tenable against the marketing needs of the company.  

 

I don't think the requirement for the letter stays long term, but things will change and the cruiselines are looking for ways to move the onus off of them. 

[emdia43]

Just now, Captain Billy Bob said:

I agree with you here but being 70 and over isn't a disability, is it?

No but they are not denying based on age- (if you are 70 and healthy you can cruise)   they are going to deny for health reasons - any chronic condition that would predispose you to complications from Covid 19 infection. 

It is very selective.  If you have heard the latest demographic reports, African Americans are disproportionately affected by Covid19- and in younger age group-  and are suffering many more serious complications and death. Are they going to exclude for reasons of race too or just those who have disabilities or chronic conditions?   I don't see how you can apply this rule outside of a pandemic.  IMO

[emdia43]

2 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Are people being denied public accommodations? 

 

I think the US govt is going to require cruise lines to have much more robust plans in place to handle potential isolation or quarantine issues.  Cruise lines are going to look to limit their liability, or what they perceive to be exposed risk, as much as tenable against the marketing needs of the company.  

 

I don't think the requirement for the letter stays long term, but things will change and the cruiselines are looking for ways to move the onus off of them. 

Yes, cruise ships are public accommodations.   

[Sunshine3601]

1 minute ago, emdia43 said:

No but they are not denying based on age- (if you are 70 and healthy you can cruise)   they are going to deny for health reasons - any chronic condition that would predispose you to complications from Covid 19 infection. 

It is very selective.  If you have heard the latest demographic reports, African Americans are disproportionately affected by Covid19- and in younger age group-  and are suffering many more serious complications and death. Are they going to exclude for reasons of race too or just those who have disabilities or chronic conditions?   I don't see how you can apply this rule outside of a pandemic.  IMO

technically speaking right now they are denying people 70 or older to board based on all their communication available as of right now and the fact they have posted new rule that you can transfer your FCC to someone else if you are unable to use it.    The FCC's being issued now are valid up thru December 31, 2021.    There is no doctor that is going to write a letter - they don't want a malpractice suit either.    So yes, they are denying based on age, for now.    

[LMaxwell]

1 minute ago, Sunshine3601 said:

they have posted new rule that you can transfer your FCC to someone else if you are unable to use it.    

 

Can you link to this?  I am under 70 and would be glad to sell my FCC to someone else 

[Captain Billy Bob]

6 minutes ago, emdia43 said:

- (if you are 70 and healthy you can cruise) 

No. Good luck finding a doctor to sign the form RC requires.

a.  Effective Monday, March 16, boarding will be denied to any person age 70 or older, unless the guest provides written verification from a qualified treating physician that certifies the person has no severe, chronic medical condition and is fit to travel.

b. Effective Friday, March 13, boarding will be denied to any person with a severe, chronic medical condition, including those specified by the CDC. Guests of all ages will be screened prior to boarding, regarding underlying health issues that may prevent them from sailing, i.e.  chronic heart, lung, liver, or kidney disease, diabetes, HIV/AIDS, or cancer.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Captain Billy Bob

[emdia43]

2 minutes ago, Captain Billy Bob said:

No. Good luck finding a doctor to sign the form RC requires.

a.  Effective Monday, March 16, boarding will be denied to any person age 70 or older, unless the guest provides written verification from a qualified treating physician that certifies the person has no severe, chronic medical condition and is fit to travel.

b. Effective Friday, March 13, boarding will be denied to any person with a severe, chronic medical condition, including those specified by the CDC. Guests of all ages will be screened prior to boarding, regarding underlying health issues that may prevent them from sailing, i.e.  chronic heart, lung, liver, or kidney disease, diabetes, HIV/AIDS, or cancer.

 

 

If you are healthy and over 70 it should be no problem.  MD is just stating you have no chronic health condition or immunodeficiency . He may require you to have a complete physical .   It is just a statement of fact at the time you were examined.

It's just those with disability and chronic conditions the cruiselines are refusing to carry

[Sunshine3601]

15 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Can you link to this?  I am under 70 and would be glad to sell my FCC to someone else 

It was announced yesterday by Vicki Freed who is VP of Sales, etc. with RCL and also on committee with CLIA.    See first post on page 1 of this forum.     I have no idea how they will handle the "sale" or transfer of a FCC.   No announcement on that as of yet.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

25 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Can you link to this?  I am under 70 and would be glad to sell my FCC to someone else 

 

Sell?? I thought transfer or "gift" was what was said. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by suzyluvs2cruise

[pcur]

23 hours ago, WeLuvVacation said:

What MD is gonna sign a form stating that a pax 70 or more is "healthy" enough to sail on a cruise. Can you see the malpractice suits plus the lawsuits to the cruise company if a pax in that situation dies? Or "any" pax for that matter. If this policy becomes permanent cruise lines are gonna lose a ton of business.

If this becomes a permanent, or semi-permanent, policy I will assume that RCCL will follow the same they do on their dock check-in questionnaire:  within the last 7 days before sailing.  

 

So, if an over 70 passenger books a doctor appointment for within the 7 days prior to sailing, gets the form filled out, then it all makes sense to me.  I consider this just an extension of the questionnaire we've been filling out for years at the dock.

 

I am glad they might require it:  keeps us all safer and healthier.  Not a big deal, either, unless one has to pay full price for a doctor's visit.  

 

I will consider it part of the price of cruising if it's implemented.

[zonacruiser25]

1 hour ago, greykitty said:

 Or, google will tell you - CLIA has a web site and everything!  It was this CLIA that was working with VP Pence.

 

Established in 1975, Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) is the world’s largest cruise industry trade association, providing a unified voice and leading authority of the global cruise community. CLIA supports policies and practices that foster a safe, secure, healthy and sustainable cruise ship environment and is dedicated to promoting the cruise travel experience.

 

 

Thanks for the correction.  I don't follow these things so deep and CLIA like many alphabet posts was not in my ventricular 

[Ourusualbeach]

38 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Can you link to this?  I am under 70 and would be glad to sell my FCC to someone else 

The person you quoted did not post the correct answer.  People 70 and over who cannot cruise because of the restrictions can transfer their FCC to someone who can use it. 

[Ourusualbeach]

20 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

Sell?? I thought transfer or "gift" was what was said. 

Since Royal  will allow the transfer there is no way for Royal to stop money from changing hands 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Ourusualbeach

[Ourusualbeach]

24 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

It was announced yesterday by Vicki Freed who is VP of Sales, etc. with RCL and also on committee with CLIA.    See first post on page 1 of this forum.     I have no idea how they will handle the "sale" or transfer of a FCC.   No announcement on that as of yet.

Yes, and I also said it was for those 70 and over who would not be able to cruise because of the age restriction which you omitted in your post. 

[mek]

23 minutes ago, pcur said:

If this becomes a permanent, or semi-permanent, policy I will assume that RCCL will follow the same they do on their dock check-in questionnaire:  within the last 7 days before sailing.  

 

So, if an over 70 passenger books a doctor appointment for within the 7 days prior to sailing, gets the form filled out, then it all makes sense to me.  I consider this just an extension of the questionnaire we've been filling out for years at the dock.

 

I am glad they might require it:  keeps us all safer and healthier.  Not a big deal, either, unless one has to pay full price for a doctor's visit.  

 

I will consider it part of the price of cruising if it's implemented.

So you don't think someone being required to have a complete physical or even paying for a doctors visit just to board a ship isn't a big deal?    7 days prior to sailing and blood work has to be done for a physical?  Even a quick turn around on that is several days - you honestly think someone will do that and not know until just a few days before sailing  if they will get the release signed?  

How exactly is this keeping you safer?  It's only to protect the cruse lines.

If that is the policy going forward, so be it - people will have to accept it or not cruise.  Just don't tell me I have no option and can't cancel an upcoming November cruise that I booked last October because the cruise lines suddenly want to reduce their liability.

[Sunshine3601]

32 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Yes, and I also said it was for those 70 and over who would not be able to cruise because of the age restriction which you omitted in your post. 

Please excuse me.   I was not omitting anything I was simply referring another poster to refer to the initial post made on this forum.   

My concern is my DH being a diabetic who is 60 years - as he cannot sail at all based on the current guidelines set by CLIA so a FCC is worthless to us until this policy changes.

[Sunshine3601]

41 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

The person you quoted did not post the correct answer.  People 70 and over who cannot cruise because of the restrictions can transfer their FCC to someone who can use it. 

And someone under 70 that has medical conditions that does not allow them to cruise with current guidelines, was my understanding as well.    This guidelines does not just pertain to just folks 70 or older.   At least someone 70 or older has the option to get a doctors note to say they are healthy.   someone with diabetes or other illness on their list is Not allowed on ship at all - with or without doctor's note.

[Ourusualbeach]

2 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

And someone under 70 that has medical conditions that does not allow them to cruise with current guidelines, was my understanding as well.    This guidelines does not just pertain to just folks 70 or older.   At least someone 70 or older has the option to get a doctors note to say they are healthy.   someone with diabetes or other illness on their list is Not allowed on ship at all - with or without doctor's note.

I didn’t post anything about the underage 70 with medical conditions as that was not discussed at all on the webinar.  The only thing mentioned was over 70.  

[mugtech]

26 minutes ago, mek said:

So you don't think someone being required to have a complete physical or even paying for a doctors visit just to board a ship isn't a big deal?    7 days prior to sailing and blood work has to be done for a physical?  Even a quick turn around on that is several days - you honestly think someone will do that and not know until just a few days before sailing  if they will get the release signed?  

How exactly is this keeping you safer?  It's only to protect the cruse lines.

If that is the policy going forward, so be it - people will have to accept it or not cruise.  Just don't tell me I have no option and can't cancel an upcoming November cruise that I booked last October because the cruise lines suddenly want to reduce their liability.

Exactly.  This year I spent two months in the Philippines before having our February Quantum cruise cancelled.  So I would have had to have a doctor in the Philippines sign my ok to cruise note 7 days before the cruise, not allowing me to spend much time in Singapore or Hong Kong before the cruise.  Can't wait to get my full refund of all planned cruises.

[molly361]

Other than the honor system if you are diabetic or any other underlying condition and under 70 how would they even know?