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Waquoit

Just dispute the charge already!

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3 minutes ago, blcruising said:

I'm prepared to be added to the do not sail list, then. NCLs loss is Princess, Carnival,  Royal, and MSCs gain. 

They all are doing 90 days right now.

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5 hours ago, NittanyCruise said:

If this works, I would expect NCL to add you to the "Do Not Sail" list and not allow you to sail with them again. It's happened before... https://www.elliott.org/blog/do-not-sail-list-banned-from-cruising/

 

Not saying that you're already planning on doing that, but I figured someone should say it just in case someone does this inadvertently and plans to use NCL in the future. 

The passenger in this case was trying to charge "back" a cruise credit that the cruise line had given her, not an actual payment that she had made & charged to her credit card. This was kind of shady & NCL banned her for that.

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8 minutes ago, phillyguy31 said:

They all are doing 90 days right now.

Of course they are. They are trying to match the refund issuance to a period when they have operating revenues. I get it, believe me I do. But, I don't have to accept or agree to that. I'm not in the business of routinely making loans to unrelated, for-profit businesses. That's what banks are for.

 

I have the temporary credit on my card and I consider the matter resolved. There is no way NCL can deny they owe the refund. So, all that is going to happen is that the chargeback will stand and NCL won't have to issue the refund whenever or if they ever decide to get around to it.

 

What I'm not going to do is pay for my entire cancelled cruise (the charge is sitting on my current month credit card statement) for the privilege of being refunded the same amount. That would make no sense.

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3 hours ago, susanf31 said:

"No, because they already credited his account. He's got his money."  He doesn't REALLY have his money now. He won't know until 6/24 if the money he got is his to keep or if they will be taking it back.  So it's the same 90 day wait as the rest of us.

 

 

Were this true, who would you more likely trust to get you your money at the end of the 90 days,

Norwegian? or

American Express?

 

 

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51 minutes ago, blcruising said:

I'm prepared to be added to the do not sail list, then. NCLs loss is Princess, Carnival,  Royal, and MSCs gain. 

Please be very careful before booking MSC unless you are in the US and just recently the UK. (US pax were offered a refund immediately, UK were not but this has since been changed). We booked with them for a cruise due to sail May. Its cancelled (obviously) but here in Canada there is no refund offered until December 31st 2021!!! We have tried disputing it with our c.c co. (MBNA) who wouldnt take it on as they said they would lose, as the reason the cruise was cancelled wasn't because MSC didn't want to sail but because they were prevented from sailing by government decisions ie reasons beyond their control. So right now we have to take the 125% fcc or wait 20 1/2 months before they even START to process a refund assuming they are even still in business. 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, mafig said:

 

Were this true, who would you more likely trust to get you your money at the end of the 90 days,

Norwegian? or

American Express?

 

Not just that, once you get the money back it's yours. They can rebill all they want, I wouldn't pay it. If NCL stiffs AMEX, that's their problem. My cruise was cancelled by the merchant. I owe nothing.

Edited by Waquoit

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I wonder if NCL would agree it is acceptable for me at final payment date to tell them I am processing the payment and it could take up to 90 days.  Think they would agree???  LOL

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7 hours ago, Waquoit said:

That's what happened in my previous dispute. That's what I was expecting. But that's not what happened. And I'm sure it wasn't because AMEX thinks I'm special. 

 

In my charge back experiences they all took a long time to be resolved, but the amount was taken off my bill immediately and didn't reduce my credit or incur interest charges during that time. June 24 is about 70 days from Apr. 15th, so it's still a long time to be fully resolved. 

 

Credits take longer than sales charges in the normal course of business because there's extra scrutiny from three entities, the company, the company's bank and your card issuer's bank. Some credit cards are notoriously slow in applying credits back to the card holders, taking up to 7 days each.  If a company normally takes 21 days to approve credits and enter them, another 14 days can pass before you actually see the credit.

 

I would think that NCL could expedite the credit process on their end because THEY were the ones canceling the cruise, and they know the cause of the cancellation. They don't have to investigate much to make sure some employee isn't sending himself the credits. But, I'll bet they still require at least two levels of sign off to get the credit approved and in the queue to be input. 

 

If NCL survives, the stories about difficulty getting money back from them could hurt their future sales. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Bottom line is considered a frivolous chargeback. A chargeback accuses the merchant (NCL) of a fraudulent charge. You are, in fact, committing fraud because NCL has, in writing at time of refund request, promised to repay you in a specified timeframe. 

 

NCL can and has blacklisted people for frivolous chargebacks. You may say "that's o.k., I never want to sail on NCL again"... but forever is a long time to be blacklisted.

 

Your bank is now taking time and expense to investigate the claim. Your bank, finding out that it is a frivolous chargeback, may consider you a risk. And may consider terminating or downgrading your account. Forever is a long time. 

 

It is NOT a free roll. The roll could come with consequences just to get your refund a few weeks earlier. 

Wrong! This is not frivolous and certainly does not rise to the level of fraud. That simply is a false statement. During this time of pandemic, credit card companies are more than happy to intervene in good faith to assist customers that may be having difficulty with refunds. Thank you for posting and for, once again, providing an opportunity to continue to correct you on misstatements of fact. Hopefully, this will help to reinforce to other impacted members of the community that a credit card chargeback is not only justified, but is legal and warranted in a situation where a company fails to deliver service and then creates unnecessary and unwarranted delays when issuing refund claims.

 

Edited by blcruising

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We had a cruise to Tahiti scheduled for March 20. We prepaid our gratuities. We canceled them on March 10. We were told it would be 7 to 10 business days to be refunded. On March 13 NCL cancelled our cruise. Our online TA refunded our $. Again stated 7 to 10 days. Then NCL changed policy and said we had to fill out the new refund form around March 24th. Now 90 days for refund. It's been 30 days. We haven't even received the promised gratuities

Time to call AMEX.

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58 minutes ago, fshagan said:

June 24 is about 70 days from Apr. 15th, so it's still a long time to be fully resolved. 

Once the money is back in my checking account, the matter is fully resolved.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, blcruising said:

Wrong! This is not frivolous and certainly does not rise to the level of fraud. That simply is a false statement. During this time of pandemic, credit card companies are more than happy to intervene in good faith to assist customers that may be having difficulty with refunds. Thank you for posting and for, once again, providing an opportunity to continue to correct you on misstatements of fact. Hopefully, this will help to reinforce to other impacted members of the community that a credit card chargeback is not only justified, but is legal and warranted in a situation where a company fails to deliver service and then creates unnecessary and unwarranted delays when issuing refund claims.

 

Frivolous is a legal term which you clearly don't understand. In this case, the merchant has agreed to refund the OP his money based on current refund policies. 

Edited by BirdTravels

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7 hours ago, PATRLR said:

What a load of crap.  I told my bank exactly what happened, including NCL's 90 day refund intention and words similar to "I don't want to wait 90 days".  I never accused NCL of fraud and I never said anything wrong or committed any fraud.    You have a hell of a lot of nerve accusing people who are doing perfectly legal things of fraud just because you don't like what they did.

It is actually not legal. And NCL could black list you. And if your bank determines that you are a risk because they have falsely accused the merchant of a fraudulent charge, your bank can cancel your credit card for cause. 

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@Waquoit the reality is, Amex is going to send NCL a letter stating that you disputed the charge. They will ask is a refund due and maybe even when will it be processed. NCL will respond yes, a refund is due and Amex will probably say well we did it for you. Case closed. Also there is very little possibility that someone could double dip and get 2 refunds. Someone, either NCL or Amex would be looking for the money on the 2nd credit. 

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8 hours ago, Trousersandrie said:

Bottom line, ITS YOUR MONEY. You didn’t cancel, the merchant didn’t provide the goods...Full stop

The merchant is refunding the money. Therefore you are subject to the terms and condition of that refund. You can file a fraudulent chargeback (you accepted the refund on the terms specified by the merchant by clicking "submit" on the refund request), but you are then subject to retribution from NCL and your bank.  Full Stop. 

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44 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

It is actually not legal. And NCL could black list you. And if your bank determines that you are a risk because they have falsely accused the merchant of a fraudulent charge, your bank can cancel your credit card for cause. 

 

I believe the CC company will turn your case over to the super secret Credit Card Chargeback Commando Investigation Unit. If found guilty of a chargeback request you will be placed on double secret super credit card probation.    

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16 hours ago, phillyguy31 said:

I suppose you feel you are more important than the other 100,000+( this number is probably way low) refund request per month NCL is working on. Keep in mind all the lines are now saying 90 days just because of the shear numbers.  No it isin't a single click like everyone would like to believe. How long when you take something back does it take the clerk to process your refund, 5 minutes? OK so that is 12 refunds per hour per person time 8 hours per day is 96 refunds...let's make it 100. You continue with the math there is a lot of time involved.

Do you really think in one click they do one transaction? I got a good chuckle out of this today. You really need to get out and see how technology works. Thanks for the smile this morning.

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15 hours ago, phillyguy31 said:

The system is there if it is a ship wide refund, it isn't everyone got FCC then to get your refund you submit the request by form. That means the refund must be done manually per reservation number and possibly by person if they paid separately.  A person needs to verify the info and probably due to the amount it may need a supervisor to approve it. I highly doubt that a system was in place to handle this kind of disaster, every cruise and every ship. Would anyone even consider this a possibility? No I don't work for NCL and yes I will have a refund coming to me as well, but I tend to look at things the way they are and not what I think they should be to suit me.

Where do you get this stuff? This isn't how A/P works in a large company. They don't have a slate and an abacus to work with; they have technology. I gotta share these posts with my accounting department; they will get a kick out of what some people actually think they do.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

It is actually not legal. And NCL could black list you. And if your bank determines that you are a risk because they have falsely accused the merchant of a fraudulent charge, your bank can cancel your credit card for cause. 

Saying something that is wrong, repeatedly, won't make it right.  

The charge back process, per the FCBA, barley gets into fraud.  It discusses unauthorized charges, but, it also discusses other opportunities for charge back including services not delivered (the situation here).   Services not delivered is not necessarily fraud.  It can be fraud, but, not necessarily and certainly not by definition.  And I am not making a claim of fraud with NCL.  There is nothing illegal about using my bank's charge back process for a service I did not receive, especially if I am 100% truthful with my statements.

You continue to make negative comments about my behavior with no justification other than you just don't like that I and others have done it.  If you are going to continue to say I did something illegal, or, I've committed fraud, please provide supporting documentation for those claims.  

 

6 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Frivolous is a legal term which you clearly don't understand. In this case, the merchant has agreed to refund the OP his money based on current refund policies. 

Yes frivolous is a legal term - when used with lawsuits.  Here in cruise critic, used with charge backs, it's a  common term.  Please stop trying to BS people by making things up to make yourself look smarter than everyone else. 

 

6 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

The merchant is refunding the money. Therefore you are subject to the terms and condition of that refund. You can file a fraudulent chargeback 

There you go again with your BS "fraud" claims.  Keep saying it, I'm sure some fools will start believing you.

 

6 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

 (you accepted the refund on the terms specified by the merchant by clicking "submit" on the refund request), but you are then subject to retribution from NCL and your bank.  Full Stop. 

You would never succeed in making the argument that clicking on the submit means one accepted their terms.  There was no explicit acknowledgement of terms on the web site so you are referring to an implicit acknowledgement/acceptance.  That would never hold up in common sense and of course never in a US court.

Edited by PATRLR

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, emm126 said:

@Waquoit the reality is, Amex is going to send NCL a letter stating that you disputed the charge. They will ask is a refund due and maybe even when will it be processed. NCL will respond yes, a refund is due and Amex will probably say well we did it for you. Case closed. Also there is very little possibility that someone could double dip and get 2 refunds. Someone, either NCL or Amex would be looking for the money on the 2nd credit. 

I'm not seeing your point. Are you saying that after NCL responds to AMEX that AMEX will then tell me to wait the 90 days to get the money from NCL? If not, what?

Edited by Waquoit

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8 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

The merchant is refunding the money. Therefore you are subject to the terms and condition of that refund. You can file a fraudulent chargeback (you accepted the refund on the terms specified by the merchant by clicking "submit" on the refund request), but you are then subject to retribution from NCL and your bank.  Full Stop. 

 

More disinformation. There are no "terms specified by the merchant" on the request form. Just the idea of "terms" to receive my legally mandated refund is ludicrous. If I owed you money and made it a term for refund that you had to get on the floor and beg like a dog would you do it?

 

All the form says is Please allow 90 days for us to process your request.  My answer to that is "No".

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Posted (edited)

Most credit card company rules state the merchant's refund policy has to be clearly stated at the time of purchase.  The cruise companies are trying to cover themselves by now posting the new longer time frames when they make you have to cancel on their website.

 

https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/chargeback-management-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf

 

https://www.americanexpress.com/content/dam/amex/us/merchant/merchant-channel/US_RefGuide_October_2018-Final.pdf

Edited by Até

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17 hours ago, blcruising said:

I'm prepared to be added to the do not sail list, then. NCLs loss is Princess, Carnival,  Royal, and MSCs gain. 

MSC got some pretty good deals and they have a match your status program, so if NCL "lists" you because you wanted your money back for a cruise you did not receive, that may indeed be an option.

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I had to do a chargeback against a hotel. It was my last resort.

I was staying at the hotel for a conference, and the room was to be paid by the organizer. My card was for incidentals only. The night auditor mistakenly charged one night for the  room to my card. I brought it up the next morning with the front desk, and they agreed it was a mistake and took care of it. The charge still appeared on my card. I attempted to call the hotel, but was never able to get through to the accounting office. I did a chargeback. I was immediately credited for the amount. However, after 90 days (give or take) the charge re-appeared and I was told the hotel proved the charge was correct. At that point I finally got hold of the accounting at the hotel who after looking at it, agreed that it was a mistake, but at that point, there was nothing that could be done. I ended up going to the organizer to get reimbursed.

 

So, the TLDR version: NCL can still have the charge put back on, so they can credit it, on their timeline. And, worst case scenario, put you on a blacklist.

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1 hour ago, Waquoit said:

I'm not seeing your point. Are you saying that after NCL responds to AMEX that AMEX will then tell me to wait the 90 days to get the money from NCL? If not, what?

sorry if I wasn't clear. Amex will send NCL a letter about the dispute. NCL will have 30 days to answer and once they do answer and say a refund is in the works, Amex will most likely close the dispute in your favor as they have already processed your refund. Good Luck and stay safe.

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