Is JUNE 2020 too soon?

[Joe817]

3 minutes ago, glrounds said:

 

You can be "virus free" and still be a carrier . . . there is no bench mark for who can spread the virus. Once EVERYBODY has gotten it and beat it we'll all have antibodies (natural vaccine) and this mess will be over, unless we develop a vaccine that does it for us.

gl, I was wondering when you'd pop up. For us older folks, I cannot remember in my time on this planet that a serious disease caused such an uproar. Everyday I am left speechless that the entire world has shut down because of this evil bug. I was told on another thread, that we have had a pandemic since my birth(1947). I certainly don't remember it. 

[ninjacat123]

20 minutes ago, Fredric22 said:

I'm not quite sure I understand your point.  SARS and MERS do not currently have any spread among humans (let's hope it stays that way).  Since COVID-19 is the one that is currently causing the issue, that would be the one that gets tested for.  Of course it would only last for a period of time until we have good treatments in place, a vaccine in place, or the virus somehow fizzles out on its own. 

I was wondering how the travel industry operated when SARS and MERS were more of a threat. That could be an indicator of how protocols will be developed with COVID-19. 

[glrounds]

2 hours ago, Joe817 said:

gl, I was wondering when you'd pop up. For us older folks, I cannot remember in my time on this planet that a serious disease caused such an uproar. Everyday I am left speechless that the entire world has shut down because of this evil bug. I was told on another thread, that we have had a pandemic since my birth(1947). I certainly don't remember it. 

 

That might be the time when POLIO was sweeping the nation. Didn't kill a lot of people but paralyzed many from the neck down so they lived the rest of their lives in an iron lung. All pools were closed, we kids weren't allowed to get overly tired when playing, etc. . . . . . and then a Doctor named Saulk changed that all. 😊

 

With a vaccine, you anti-vaxxers.

Edited April 22, 2020 by glrounds

[Elaine5715]

7 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Again...the title of this thread is "let's be logical" and unless you can come up with ideas of how to handle the situations....yes....a private yacht!

For example....how would you handle "the buffet"?  Please post.

And...as I said...I understand how people in non-affected areas just "don't get it"....but a cruise ship is a very dense population.

I would eat at the buffet.  I expect people who are sick to be responsible.  I am not opting out of life because something might happen.  

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, Joe817 said:

gl, I was wondering when you'd pop up. For us older folks, I cannot remember in my time on this planet that a serious disease caused such an uproar. Everyday I am left speechless that the entire world has shut down because of this evil bug. I was told on another thread, that we have had a pandemic since my birth(1947). I certainly don't remember it. 

Zika wasn't that long ago.  It met the definition of a pandemic 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Elaine5715

[the_thunderbird]

On 4/20/2020 at 1:13 PM, jimbo5544 said:

You make an excellent point on forced vaccines. 

Schools are, for the most part, public institutions. Cruises are private companies, they can make almost anything a condition of carriage.  

[PhillyFan33579]

8 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

I would eat at the buffet.  I expect people who are sick to be responsible.  I am not opting out of life because something might happen.  

Unfortunately I don’t agree with your expectation that people who are sick will be responsible. All you have to do is read comments on this board to know a lot of people are not responsible when it comes to this virus. 

[April42749]

8 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

I would eat at the buffet.  I expect people who are sick to be responsible.  I am not opting out of life because something might happen.  

Unfortunately many of those sick people are asymptomatic.  That guy who just got up to give you his seat, well he doesn't know that he's sick.

Nobody is asking you to opt out of life, but just to put certain things on hold.  A cruise ship has a very dense population, with people from all over.  Maybe "your state" has just a couple of deaths, but people from "my state" will be flying in to take your cruise, because the ship is sailing.  And "my state" is not, at this point, a healthy state.

[April42749]

18 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Unfortunately I don’t agree with your expectation that people who are sick will be responsible. All you have to do is read comments on this board to know a lot of people are not responsible when it comes to this virus. 

I was on a 3/1 NCL cruise.  At that time, on the NCL board, people were discussing how they could hide any symptoms (coughs, fever etc) just in case they were screened at embarkation.  So you are absolutely correct; many people are irresponsible.  It's part of the "me and only me" thing.

[jimbo5544]

8 hours ago, the_thunderbird said:

Schools are, for the most part, public institutions. Cruises are private companies, they can make almost anything a condition of carriage.  

The point is that people do not comply when it is law, they will do less so when it is not. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by jimbo5544

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, April42749 said:

Unfortunately many of those sick people are asymptomatic.  That guy who just got up to give you his seat, well he doesn't know that he's sick.

Nobody is asking you to opt out of life, but just to put certain things on hold.  A cruise ship has a very dense population, with people from all over.  Maybe "your state" has just a couple of deaths, but people from "my state" will be flying in to take your cruise, because the ship is sailing.  And "my state" is not, at this point, a healthy state.

 

1 hour ago, April42749 said:

I was on a 3/1 NCL cruise.  At that time, on the NCL board, people were discussing how they could hide any symptoms (coughs, fever etc) just in case they were screened at embarkation.  So you are absolutely correct; many people are irresponsible.  It's part of the "me and only me" thing.

Then those people who are sick need to be quarantined.  Viruses don't spring out of nowhere.  "Your state" can continue to be locked down.  

[ray98]

On 4/20/2020 at 9:05 AM, ChinaShrek said:

 

Do you have any evidence that flying is actually less safe than taking a cruise? Where are those cases of planes being quarantined?

 

My point is that the cruising is inherently more dangerous than flying and that we will be able to fly without any tests long before cruising will recommence. Sure, Covid was transmitted around because of airplanes. That doesn't mean anyone became infected with the virus while they were flying.

 

No way your thinking can be that simplistic.

 

Of course flying was just as much of a risk as cruising or any other close contact situations.  The difference with cruising is its a unique environment, you can see the end result because the group is static for a week.  The airline passengers have been dispersed in the population for days.

Edited April 22, 2020 by ray98

[beerman2]

55 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

 

Then those people who are sick need to be quarantined.  Viruses don't spring out of nowhere.  "Your state" can continue to be locked down.  

I read a post from a member of "your state " that said he couldn't even take his boat out on the lake by himself. Isn't that be locked down?

 

The changes that are coming to the cruise industry are going to be major. And at this point cruise line executives are trying to balance what needs to be done to please the CDC versus becoming profitable again.

 

There are many optimistic CC members that think the cruise lines can just snap their fingers and be ready to cruise. At some point reality needs to sink in.

[jimbo5544]

34 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

I read a post from a member of "your state " that said he couldn't even take his boat out on the lake by himself. Isn't that be locked down?

 

The changes that are coming to the cruise industry are going to be major. And at this point cruise line executives are trying to balance what needs to be done to please the CDC versus becoming profitable again.

 

There are many optimistic CC members that think the cruise lines can just snap their fingers and be ready to cruise. At some point reality needs to sink in.

I am not sure it is as jaded as you say, both In terms of people’s views or that they think it a snap of the fingers.  America wants what they had back, that is certainly logical.  While that might be unrealistic, the aspiration to attain that to the degree that is can happen is normal.  The cruise lines want basically the same thing.  They are trying to work with and realize how they meet the standards set forth by the CDC.  At the outset, it will be significant, later on, I really have no idea.  I do know one thing, I want to cruise again and will support their efforts whenI can.  I do not think that foolish or even illogical.  

Edited April 22, 2020 by jimbo5544

[ChinaShrek]

3 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I will try one more time.  China blocked all flights from Wuhan to other parts of China once the infection became a pandemic, they blocked none to the rest of the world.  5 million people left, if you cannot follow that logic then I cannot convince you.  These people went where the outbreaks blossomed Italy, Iran, Spain and the US thru Europe.  5 MILLION vs couple hundred on cruise ships that spread because most countries would not let them dock.  

 

You can believe what you want about catching the virus. I will happily board a flight this summer without a mask or hand sanitizer. I will happily fly without being tested for Covid (and do not believe there should be any tests for flying). However, I will cruise only with a Covid test, mask, and hand sanitizer. I believe the cruise lines will do this as well.

[ray98]

1 minute ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

You can believe what you want about catching the virus. I will happily board a flight this summer without a mask or hand sanitizer. I will happily fly without being tested for Covid (and do not believe there should be any tests for flying). However, I will cruise only with a Covid test, mask, and hand sanitizer. I believe the cruise lines will do this as well.

 

 

LOL....are you just messing with us?

[jimbo5544]

8 minutes ago, Fredric22 said:

Air travel is the only cause for 98% of the world's deaths due to Covid-19.  Air travel is the only reason this disease has spread across the world like wild-fire.  So, air travel is inherently much more "dangerous" for society than cruise travel is.  If unrestricted air-travel is allowed, then cruises should be no different since air-travel poses a far greater risk to the health of the public. 

True enough, and have you seen the CDC or WHO say anything that remotely mentions that?

[ChinaShrek]

1 minute ago, ray98 said:

 

 

LOL....are you just messing with us?

 

Nope. That's how I feel and that's how most of the people I talk to feel. Cruising is dangerous and needs to be tightly regulated if you want to bring back passengers. As I posted earlier in this thread, where are the quarantined airplanes?

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, ray98 said:

 

 

LOL....are you just messing with us?

Let it go, wasting time

[sanger727]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

 

Then those people who are sick need to be quarantined.  Viruses don't spring out of nowhere.  "Your state" can continue to be locked down.  

 

That doesn't really help with the asymptomatic people. Or the people who got sick, got better, and started to go back about their life without realizing they were still contagious. Or the people who caught the virus and were contagious for several days prior to developing symptoms. If this was as simple as "stay home if you feel sick" this would be alot easier to contain without social distancing. It's not that simple.... On top of the fact that I don't trust that people will stay home if they are sick. 

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

That doesn't really help with the asymptomatic people. Or the people who got sick, got better, and started to go back about their life without realizing they were still contagious. Or the people who caught the virus and were contagious for several days prior to developing symptoms. If this was as simple as "stay home if you feel sick" this would be alot easier to contain without social distancing. It's not that simple.... On top of the fact that I don't trust that people will stay home if they are sick. 

So what is your answer?

 

[ChinaShrek]

Here is a story showing how dangerous cruising is. They are also thinking about requiring some form of Covid testing in the future. Hmm....

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/04/21/coronavirus-cruises-cruise-ships-unsafe-can-they-change/5163461002/

[Fredric22]

7 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

Nope. That's how I feel and that's how most of the people I talk to feel. Cruising is dangerous and needs to be tightly regulated if you want to bring back passengers. As I posted earlier in this thread, where are the quarantined airplanes?

Cruising is dangerous?  What about trains, subways, buses, all-inclusive resorts, casinos, stadiums, buffet restaurants, spas, etc. etc. etc.  The only thing that makes cruises more "dangerous" than any other of the examples I gave is that cruises are actually tracked.  If you feel that you need to wear a mask on a cruise, but not to a concert or on a crowded plane, then I don't think you understand just how the virus is transmitted.  

[ray98]

13 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

As I posted earlier in this thread, where are the quarantined airplanes?

 

Well....we would first need to find airplanes that kept passengers on board for 7 days or so before that is even possible.

 

[jimbo5544]

5 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

Here is a story showing how dangerous cruising is. They are also thinking about requiring some form of Covid testing in the future. Hmm....

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/04/21/coronavirus-cruises-cruise-ships-unsafe-can-they-change/5163461002/

And here is one proving my point, while not the bastion of truth USA Today, this only is a US rep and Senator.

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/tom-cotton-dan-crenshaw-make-bold-new-accusations-against-china?al_applink_data={"target_url"%3A"http%3A\%2F\%2Fdlvr.it\%2FRVF1CX"%2C"extras"%3A[]%2C"referer_app_link"%3A{"url"%3A"fb%3A\%2F\%2F\%2F"%2C"app_name"%3A"Facebook"}}