If You Are Scared To Cruise, Don't Cruise.

[hazence]

 

Here is my opinion on experts.

 

Let’s consider RCCL. Mr Fain and Mr Bayley have  risen through the corporate ranks to lead RCCL. They are at the top of their managerial structure. They serve on many important boards as a Cruise industry experts.   But have they recently captained a ship, run the website, personally predicted the weather for your cruise, or personally run the refund department?

 

No, under each of them..are many other hired “experts” who advise them.   Fain and Bayley are figureheads...very visual “experts” on the Cruise industry...but does every lower level “expert” give them  good advice on how to run respective areas of RCCL?

 

Judging by these Boards...and your comments on delayed refunds...getting employees home...a few notorious  goofs in the past from the Weather expert...the answer is that Cruise Experts Fain and Bayley are NOT  always well served by the “experts” who help them decide policy for RCCL.

 

Dr Fauci is a lot like Mr Fain and Mr Bayley. . He is being advised by many other people.  Dr (Lockdown) Ferguson is already being ridiculed for his present and past buffoonish mistakes. Most remain anonymous. We don’t know their individual track credentials or track records. 

 

But THEIR decisions are funneled through Dr Fauci.

 

Dr Fauci is the figurehead the media has anointed as the only “expert” that matters. 

 

But just as the posts on CC should inform Fain and Bayley about issues that don’t comport with the advice those under him have given him...Dr Fauci should be balanced by the voices of Doctors on the front lines of this pandemic.  Voices like that Physician on Bill Maher show...and the ones that have written op-Ed’s about their experiences in NYC hospitals...the California doctors. And many more. 

 

They are like posters here...at the least they should be heard, debated...not silenced or ridiculed.  They are dealing daily with the virus not working in labs.They are hands on with patients...not sitting in offices alone writing models.

 

Fain and Bayley hopefully learn from reading here how some experts advising him have created issues that could undercut the health of RCCL’s business. Fauci should be balanced with voices from frontline doctors for the same resonance 

 

And yes, from experts in economics who could school him on how these policies are affecting the financial health of so many families in lightly affected states.

 

It is selective empathy to say that economic devastation does not matter. That’s like Fain telling you your refund doesn’t matter...he is instead saving RCCL.

 

There has to be BALANCE...not media created God-figures who are purported to know everything!

 

I respect Dr Fauci as an expert in epidemiology and I respect Mr Fain and Mr Bayley as an experts on the Cruise industry.  All  have had stellar careers. But anyone running a huge bureaucracy is only as good in this area or that...as the advice of the many people under him running that area.

 

One high and mighty world renowned expert...Ferguson....is now the subject of ridicule. That should tell us something.

[time4u2go]

16 minutes ago, hazence said:

 

Here is my opinion on experts.

 

Let’s consider RCCL. Mr Fain and Mr Bayley have  risen through the corporate ranks to lead RCCL. They are at the top of their managerial structure. They serve on many important boards as a Cruise industry experts.   But have they recently captained a ship, run the website, personally predicted the weather for your cruise, or personally run the refund department?

 

No, under each of them..are many other hired “experts” who advise them.   Fain and Bayley are figureheads...very visual “experts” on the Cruise industry...but does every lower level “expert” give them  good advice on how to run respective areas of RCCL?

 

Judging by these Boards...and your comments on delayed refunds...getting employees home...a few notorious  goofs in the past from the Weather expert...the answer is that Cruise Experts Fain and Bayley are NOT  always well served by the “experts” who help them decide policy for RCCL.

 

Dr Fauci is a lot like Mr Fain and Mr Bayley. . He is being advised by many other people.  Dr (Lockdown) Ferguson is already being ridiculed for his present and past buffoonish mistakes. Most remain anonymous. We don’t know their individual track credentials or track records. 

 

But THEIR decisions are funneled through Dr Fauci.

 

Dr Fauci is the figurehead the media has anointed as the only “expert” that matters. 

 

But just as the posts on CC should inform Fain and Bayley about issues that don’t comport with the advice those under him have given him...Dr Fauci should be balanced by the voices of Doctors on the front lines of this pandemic.  Voices like that Physician on Bill Maher show...and the ones that have written op-Ed’s about their experiences in NYC hospitals...the California doctors. And many more. 

 

They are like posters here...at the least they should be heard, debated...not silenced or ridiculed.  They are dealing daily with the virus not working in labs.They are hands on with patients...not sitting in offices alone writing models.

 

Fain and Bayley hopefully learn from reading here how some experts advising him have created issues that could undercut the health of RCCL’s business. Fauci should be balanced with voices from frontline doctors for the same resonance 

 

And yes, from experts in economics who could school him on how these policies are affecting the financial health of so many families in lightly affected states.

 

It is selective empathy to say that economic devastation does not matter. That’s like Fain telling you your refund doesn’t matter...he is instead saving RCCL.

 

There has to be BALANCE...not media created God-figures who are purported to know everything!

 

I respect Dr Fauci as an expert in epidemiology and I respect Mr Fain and Mr Bayley as an experts on the Cruise industry.  All  have had stellar careers. But anyone running a huge bureaucracy is only as good in this area or that...as the advice of the many people under him running that area.

 

One high and mighty world renowned expert...Ferguson....is now the subject of ridicule. That should tell us something.

Do you know that Fauci isn't listening to doctors on the front lines?  I personally don't know.  Perhaps you know something the rest of us don't?

Edited May 18, 2020 by time4u2go

[Mapleleafforever]

2 minutes ago, zalusky said:

 

Sleep Apnea was not considered one of the compromising health conditions for Covid19.  Hypertension/Diabetes/COPD and other issues were.

Sleep apnea is absolutely a compromising health issue though. Copied and pasted from that thing called the internet..... "Lack of sleep caused by sleep apnea can cause sleep deprivation that makes your immune system weaker. Studies show that lack of sleep caused by sleep apnea reduces the number of T-cells in the body and suppresses immune system function. Increased colds and sickness is the result"

 

No one uses a cpap for no reason.

[Cruise a holic]

2 hours ago, mek said:

Oh come on - I listened to his statements in January.  If he knew the risk and was just trying to be "gentle" - then that is gross negligence to not tell us the truth.  Things have changed - and that's my point.  First, no masks, then masks.  All kinds of opinions from doctors and scientists - they don't all agree do they? I'm not picking on Fauci - just pointing out that the scientists and doctors have have changed their tune several times since January.

I wasn't blaming WHO for the virus happening, but they certainly did nothing to clamp down on China and warn the world back in late December.

We did know about the virus- but we did too little to late as a country.  We should have paid much more attention to the people coming from Europe to the US but ignored that.  So sad. 

[Iamcruzin]

On 5/16/2020 at 6:25 PM, WeatherFx said:

I plan on going when they start again. No sense in worrying about what may happen. You can do all the so called  "right things" and in the end it doesn't make a bit of difference. Just like the song says, "Live like you were dying".

Like me you live in the epicenter so you are at risk just by location.  My only question is are you willing accept any temporary changes that may come along with cruising like social distancing, having to wear a mask, limited or no buffet, limited entertainment and most important being quarantined and possibly having to remain on the ship for an extended period of time waiting for a country to let you disembark?  I'm not willing to do any of that so I will patiently wait for post Covid sailing reviews.

[hazence]

16 minutes ago, Cruise a holic said:

We did know about the virus- but we did too little to late as a country.  We should have paid much more attention to the people coming from Europe to the US but ignored that.  So sad. 

 

What’s really sad...no OUTRAGEOUS...is the way that nursing home patients have been treated in this pandemic.  It is inexcusable and inhumane that certain governors returned patients testing positive to their nursing homes, only to infect other helpless residents.

https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/diseases/covid-19/fatalities_nursing_home_acf.pdf

 

There were more nursing home deaths in some NY nursing homes than in my entire state!

 

We should all demand accountability so it never happens again to our most vulnerable elderly!

 

Then there’s this...

 

 

CORONAVIRUS IN NY

Out-of-state nurses brought to Manhattan to fight the coronavirus say they found hellish conditions at the city-run adult-care center on Roosevelt Island — from patients with horrific bed sores to feces-smeared walls.

 

“It was just heartbreaking,” said one of the RNs, a mom of four from Wisconsin who spent about 17 days at the Coler Rehabilitation and Nursing Care Center.

“Patients were in deplorable conditions — very, very dirty, bed sores, terrible odors,’’ the FEMA-contracted nurse, 38, told The Post.

 

“During my shift, I was placing my initials on the adult diapers. When I would return the next day, the patients would have an additional adult diaper on over the one with my initials on it, saturated urine through both and through the sheets.’’

 

 

At least 28,000 residents and workers in long-term care facilities already have died from the ­virus, according to a New York Times analysis done more than a week ago. That represented one out of every three COVID-19 deaths recorded in the United States at the time and was likely an undercount because of reporting lags and varying state methods.

This massacre of a helpless population shames America and Washington must find out why it happened and who is responsible. Elderly people in these institutions could not protect themselves, and because most states banned visitors early in the outbreak, the institutions, their regulators and elected officials were fully obligated to shield them against infection.

They failed miserably.”

 

[time4u2go]

22 minutes ago, Cruise a holic said:

We did know about the virus- but we did too little to late as a country.  We should have paid much more attention to the people coming from Europe to the US but ignored that.  So sad. 

Very true.

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, hazence said:

 

Here is my opinion on experts.

 

Let’s consider RCCL. Mr Fain and Mr Bayley have  risen through the corporate ranks to lead RCCL. They are at the top of their managerial structure. They serve on many important boards as a Cruise industry experts.   But have they recently captained a ship, run the website, personally predicted the weather for your cruise, or personally run the refund department?

 

No, under each of them..are many other hired “experts” who advise them.   Fain and Bayley are figureheads...very visual “experts” on the Cruise industry...but does every lower level “expert” give them  good advice on how to run respective areas of RCCL?

 

Judging by these Boards...and your comments on delayed refunds...getting employees home...a few notorious  goofs in the past from the Weather expert...the answer is that Cruise Experts Fain and Bayley are NOT  always well served by the “experts” who help them decide policy for RCCL.

 

Dr Fauci is a lot like Mr Fain and Mr Bayley. . He is being advised by many other people.  Dr (Lockdown) Ferguson is already being ridiculed for his present and past buffoonish mistakes. Most remain anonymous. We don’t know their individual track credentials or track records. 

 

But THEIR decisions are funneled through Dr Fauci.

 

Dr Fauci is the figurehead the media has anointed as the only “expert” that matters. 

 

But just as the posts on CC should inform Fain and Bayley about issues that don’t comport with the advice those under him have given him...Dr Fauci should be balanced by the voices of Doctors on the front lines of this pandemic.  Voices like that Physician on Bill Maher show...and the ones that have written op-Ed’s about their experiences in NYC hospitals...the California doctors. And many more. 

 

They are like posters here...at the least they should be heard, debated...not silenced or ridiculed.  They are dealing daily with the virus not working in labs.They are hands on with patients...not sitting in offices alone writing models.

 

Fain and Bayley hopefully learn from reading here how some experts advising him have created issues that could undercut the health of RCCL’s business. Fauci should be balanced with voices from frontline doctors for the same resonance 

 

And yes, from experts in economics who could school him on how these policies are affecting the financial health of so many families in lightly affected states.

 

It is selective empathy to say that economic devastation does not matter. That’s like Fain telling you your refund doesn’t matter...he is instead saving RCCL.

 

There has to be BALANCE...not media created God-figures who are purported to know everything!

 

I respect Dr Fauci as an expert in epidemiology and I respect Mr Fain and Mr Bayley as an experts on the Cruise industry.  All  have had stellar careers. But anyone running a huge bureaucracy is only as good in this area or that...as the advice of the many people under him running that area.

 

One high and mighty world renowned expert...Ferguson....is now the subject of ridicule. That should tell us something.

You have time to write all this but can’t give us the details of your wonderful Zip Code???  SMH 😇

[Iamcruzin]

11 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

You have time to write all this but can’t give us the details of your wonderful Zip Code???  SMH 😇

I have an in person interview with LiDL which is a supermarket.  One of the stipulations if offered the job is that I have to train for 5 months in one of the stores in Virginia,  the Carolinas or Georgia. I want to work in hazence's zip code. Can you just imagine what this Yankee from the epicenter can bring to the table in terms of Covid?

[L454S]

58 minutes ago, Cruise a holic said:

We did know about the virus- but we did too little to late as a country.  We should have paid much more attention to the people coming from Europe to the US but ignored that.  So sad. 

 

Says who? You, or the drive by media......

[Mapleleafforever]

1 minute ago, L454S said:

 

Says who? You, or the drive by media......

Says good old common sense.......

[Mapleleafforever]

7 minutes ago, zalusky said:

 

I know all that as a CPAP user for many users.  My point is that many people who use CPAP as a result have not developed those secondary issues.  As a result of being fully compliant with CPAP my blood pressure is 110/70 and my pulse ox is 97 or higher, ...

 

Some people think its the other way around that you need CPAP because you have those issues.

Cpap was brought up by someone who is on the front lines in the healthcare industry in response to this question, "How do you limit/prohibit the most at risk from sailing?" 

 

The fact of the matter is that something like over 70% of cpap users are obese and there is a direct link to the severity of symptoms of Covid-19 and obesity. Being obese is not healthy no matter what the body positivity movement would like you to believe. 

 

I just need to reiterate, no one uses a cpap for no reason, it's used to treat a condition(s).

[hazence]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

You have time to write all this but can’t give us the details of your wonderful Zip Code???  SMH 😇

 
My magic zip code is very small...1230 population. Still not one positive case. This number does not include our large influx of part-timers who have all returned from their respective hotspots...or the many “refugee”  relations that are jogging on the wrong side of our twisty neighborhood roads and having loud parties in boats on the Lake.  Bless their hearts. 🥰

Almost everybody has been great about doing the requested 2 week quarantine. 
 

Encountering the refugees at the Club nowadays is a bit like encountering our wildlife out here...not sure who is more afraid of whom. 🐻 One woman literally almost fell over when she walked in and saw me...social distancing at the concierge desk. She backed into the doors, tripped and blurted out...”If you knew me...I’m really not unfriendly!” 

 

Yes, I had on the mask.
 

Our zip code is in a county of 126, 884  population. That county has had 91 cases, only 1 death and only 16.8% of its hospital capacity is in use. I shop at the Walmart and Ingles in this county....but for Costco, Target, the Malls, the theatre, big box stores and most doctors appointments, physical therapy...I and almost all my neighbors go to the Big City regularly...COUNTY 506, 552...CITY pop 71,171...964 positive cases...45 deaths. 
 

So we are not ensconced here in some mythical Brigadoon. But as highly infectious as COVID may be, we have not brought a single case back here from the county or Big City to our magical zip code.
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by hazence

[Milwaukee Eight]

8 minutes ago, hazence said:

 
My magic zip code is very small...1230 population. Still not one positive case. This number does not include our large influx of part-timers who have all returned from their respective hotspots...or the many “refugee”  relations that are jogging on the wrong side of our twisty neighborhood roads and having loud parties in boats on the Lake.  Bless their hearts. 🥰

Almost everybody has been great about doing the requested 2 week quarantine. 
 

Encountering the refugees at the Club nowadays is a bit like encountering our wildlife out here...not sure who is more afraid of whom. 🐻 One woman literally almost fell over when she walked in and saw me...social distancing at the concierge desk. She backed into the doors, tripped and blurted out...”If you knew me...I’m really not unfriendly!” 

 

Yes, I had on the mask.
 

Our zip code is in a county of 126, 884  population. That county has had 91 cases, only 1 death and only 16.8% of its hospital capacity is in use. I shop at the Walmart and Ingles in this county....but for Costco, Target, the Malls, the theatre, big box stores and most doctors appointments, physical therapy...I and almost all my neighbors go to the Big City regularly...COUNTY 506, 552...CITY pop 71,171...964 positive cases...45 deaths. 
 

So we are not ensconced here in some mythical Brigadoon. But as highly infectious as COVID may be, we have not brought a single case back here from the county or Big City to our magical zip code.
 

 

 

 

 

 

How many in your Zip Code tested?  
 

I don’t disagree with most of your rants but doing so on the bases of 1230 people doesn’t lend to credibility. 
 

Our gated large community here has more than 1230 people. Our Zip Code covers a whole lot of people in Ormond Beach 32174. 

[hazence]

53 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

How many in your Zip Code tested?  
 

I don’t disagree with most of your rants but doing so on the bases of 1230 people doesn’t lend to credibility. 
 

Our gated large community here has more than 1230 people. Our Zip Code covers a whole lot of people in Ormond Beach 32174. 

I cannot give you testing numbers.

 

I looked.

 

I have to occasionally devote myself to domestic tasks.

 

Thank you for your tepid approval of my rants. Long ago, when I first stumbled in here again...my whole point was not that my magic zip should stand up as a large sample.  My point  was that...at that time...with the constant drum beat on impending death and HIGH INFECTION  rates from the media...wasn’t it interesting that we  were completely unaffected?

 

I wasn’t volunteering as a competing sample study with NYC. I thought it brought a bit of optimism. But instead in CC fashion, 🤬😡🤯...it just couldn’t be true!  No such place could exist! 
 

No masks?  Just wait! VIRUS GONNA GET YA! VIRUS GONNA GET YA!  Asymptomatic  zombies everywhere! Just wait a few weeks!

 

So now its been a few months. Still zero.
 

So how can this virus be so highly infectious?   Unless...as we may be learning now...many  HAVE had it...just mildly...or with no symptoms at all. 

 

Thats not worth shutting down the economy, destroying small businesses, disrupting the food chain and pulling children out of school, and instituting the same onerous lockdown EVERYWHERE. 
 

Whatever...

 

There’s quite a diverse sampling of people here. You may not want to hear this, but I’m really REALLY enjoying myself. 😎 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by hazence

[ToroAzul]

Google STOP BANG score

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 hours ago, hazence said:

 

So now its been a few months. Still zero.
 

So how can this virus be so highly infectious?   Unless...as we may be learning now...many  HAVE had it...just mildly...or with no symptoms at all. 

Above is the issue I have with your rants. If you have ZERO in your community, then it’s not possible to have any cases. It’s only when someone leaves and comes back infected or someone infected comes into your community, will you be at risk. 
 

How would you like to be the one in your community that goes on a cruise with people from all over that may be infected (Asymptomatic) and you then bring it back into your community?

 

As I mentioned before, one patient here that was hospitalized positive, had contact with at least 10 people who were positive (Asymptomatic) with NO SYMPTOMS. One out of the 11 got sick although all were infected. 
 

How do you suggest we deal with that?  
 

My boss, who was tested two weeks ago, as it was required to maintain her privileges at Advent, now finds out all the tests were unreliable. This was the saliva test and outsourced to a 3rd party for testing and results. Not sure when they plan to test again. 
 

She was consulted on two COVID19 patients (unrelated to COVID19). For that, she suits up in PPE. 

[KatieK391]

On 4/22/2020 at 8:54 AM, karena1 said:

And my brother (21 years old) died in a car accident and my father (63) died of cancer.  That is why I live the way I live.  Everyone has their opinion.  I just happen to believe in not being scare to live, because it can be gone tomorrow.

Me too!  My father (38) died of a cerebral aneurysm, and my sister (7) accidentally hanged herself while playing with a skipping rope. 

[WeatherFx]

On 5/18/2020 at 11:46 AM, Iamcruzin said:

Like me you live in the epicenter so you are at risk just by location.  My only question is are you willing accept any temporary changes that may come along with cruising like social distancing, having to wear a mask, limited or no buffet, limited entertainment and most important being quarantined and possibly having to remain on the ship for an extended period of time waiting for a country to let you disembark?  I'm not willing to do any of that so I will patiently wait for post Covid sailing reviews.

Yes, I am willing to do all that you mentioned, including being quarantined if required. I have lived my life with the understanding tomorrow is not a given. After having faced death head-on out-of-the-blue last year, it just reaffirmed it.

[hazence]

On 5/18/2020 at 5:21 PM, Milwaukee Eight said:

If you have ZERO in your community, then it’s not possible to have any cases. It’s only when someone leaves and comes back infected or someone infected comes into your community, will you be at risk. 

Im not following your logic here at all. How is it “not possible” to get a highly infectious disease...when since January of this year, individuals from all over have come in and out of this same community and it’s population has probably tripled in size? 
 

We did not pull up the drawbridge three and one half months ago...and fish and grow our own produce!

 

Although this zip code includes more than my neighborhood, I’ll just deal with our community. January, February and March are big travel months for us...it’s cold here...and many neighbors head to Florida homes or plan trips. Just off hand, I know of friends trips to Mexico, the Caribbean, Chicago, New Orleans...and Southeast Asia. Two were cruising New Zealand. One of the guys in Mr H poker group had to try to get home from Egypt at the height of this fiasco!

In February, neighbors who also have a place right outside NYC returned and gave a huge party...people.were laughing, hugging, sharing lots of finger foods.

 

So people were certainly LEAVING and returning ...but LOTS MORE than those travelers were coming back!  We have had droves of part time owners and (like my daughter) refugee family members...flocking here from hot spots all over the US. Any one of these people could have brought in that highly infectious virus.
 

Do you really believe we are that incredibly lucky?  Among the retired folks, there certainly are some that would be especially vulnerable...lung issues, cancer, etc

 

Beyond that, we shop in the infected Big City and in the less infected small town among  the non obedient mask deniers. 

 

My point has always been that if this is SO highly contagious...something is really strange. We have had too many people from too many infected places decide to live among us...golf in our courses...pick up food at our Club. And some of them, to be honest, have been partying in private homes and on boats on the Lake.

 

I think we may learn in time that many more people had this but with either no symptoms or mild ones...and that their ability to infect HEALTHY others with....serious...symptoms may need further review. 

 

Only time will tell. But if your whole point is only in regard to the viability or risk of cruising, there I can agree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cruise a holic]

12 hours ago, hazence said:

Im not following your logic here at all. How is it “not possible” to get a highly infectious disease...when since January of this year, individuals from all over have come in and out of this same community and it’s population has probably tripled in size? 
 

We did not pull up the drawbridge three and one half months ago...and fish and grow our own produce!

 

Although this zip code includes more than my neighborhood, I’ll just deal with our community. January, February and March are big travel months for us...it’s cold here...and many neighbors head to Florida homes or plan trips. Just off hand, I know of friends trips to Mexico, the Caribbean, Chicago, New Orleans...and Southeast Asia. Two were cruising New Zealand. One of the guys in Mr H poker group had to try to get home from Egypt at the height of this fiasco!

In February, neighbors who also have a place right outside NYC returned and gave a huge party...people.were laughing, hugging, sharing lots of finger foods.

 

So people were certainly LEAVING and returning ...but LOTS MORE than those travelers were coming back!  We have had droves of part time owners and (like my daughter) refugee family members...flocking here from hot spots all over the US. Any one of these people could have brought in that highly infectious virus.
 

Do you really believe we are that incredibly lucky?  Among the retired folks, there certainly are some that would be especially vulnerable...lung issues, cancer, etc

 

Beyond that, we shop in the infected Big City and in the less infected small town among  the non obedient mask deniers. 

 

My point has always been that if this is SO highly contagious...something is really strange. We have had too many people from too many infected places decide to live among us...golf in our courses...pick up food at our Club. And some of them, to be honest, have been partying in private homes and on boats on the Lake.

 

I think we may learn in time that many more people had this but with either no symptoms or mild ones...and that their ability to infect HEALTHY others with....serious...symptoms may need further review. 

 

Only time will tell. But if your whole point is only in regard to the viability or risk of cruising, there I can agree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some people have a natural immunity to the virus- regardless of their age and health status- So who knows.  We do know that in fact it is very contagious and that it appears if you have comorbidity factors are at risk-  So while you might be a lucky one- still can be a carrier and pass on to somebody who is vulnerable.  Now many young apparently healthy very young children are getting a weird strain of the virus.  Stay healthy

[rtazz17]

On 5/18/2020 at 11:29 AM, Cruise a holic said:

We did know about the virus- but we did too little to late as a country.  We should have paid much more attention to the people coming from Europe to the US but ignored that.  So sad. 

Lol,Let me guess you watch cnn all day? Hind site is 20/20....when the president closed travel from china he was called a racist? So why do you think he shouldve closed europe earlier? He did it pretty quickly. But I guess no matter what the president does he would be lamb based for it. 

[zalusky]

2 hours ago, rtazz17 said:

Lol,Let me guess you watch cnn all day? Hind site is 20/20....when the president closed travel from china he was called a racist? So why do you think he shouldve closed europe earlier? He did it pretty quickly. But I guess no matter what the president does he would be lamb based for it. 

We all know closing the borders does do diddly when its already here well before we knew it.  What he should have done is put all his might and muscle behind superfast reliable testing not symptoms because people can be asymptomatic.  That way people can be tested before they walk on the ship and other venues.

[hazence]

23 minutes ago, zalusky said:

We all know closing the borders does do diddly when its already here well before we knew it.  What he should have done is put all his might and muscle behind superfast reliable testing not symptoms because people can be asymptomatic.  That way people can be tested before they walk on the ship and other venues.

Please let’s be intellectually honest.  Who was advising Trump in January and February...DR Fauci and the CDC! 

 

and what were they saying publicly?

 

“Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and President Donald Trump’s top adviser on matters related to the coronavirus, said in a JANUARY interview that the virus was “not a major threat” to the U.S.

“Bottom line. We don’t have to worry about this one, right?” Newsmax anchor Greg Kelly asked Fauci on January 21.““Obviously, you need to take it seriously, and do the kinds of things that the CDC and the Department of Homeland Security are doing, ” Fauci responded. “But, this not a major threat for the people of the United States, and this is not something that the citizens of the UnitedStates right now should be worried about.”

 

That’s JANUARY 21!!!!!  Fauci is the “expert” and this was what he told Trump!

 

“CDC Director Robert Redfield months later told Fox News’ Brian Kilmeade that he agreed with Fauci’s assessment at the time, and said that NOBODY could have predicted the outbreak that would eventually occur in the U.S. “

Get THAT...NOBODY could have predicted this...but Trump was suppose to?  Experts whose job it was...were advising it was no big deal!!! 

 

DR Fauci made similar comments in February, saying the threat to the U.S. from thecoronaviruswas “minuscule.” 
 

These accusations are just political narratives. On Fox they ask why Cuomo let thousands of frail elderly people die in nursing homes until Mid May?  Why didn’t he act sooner?

 

Why don’t we stop looking to place blame and point fingers? 

[hazence]

1 hour ago, zalusky said:

We all know closing the borders does do diddly when its already here well before we knew it.  What he should have done is put all his might and muscle behind superfast reliable testing not symptoms because people can be asymptomatic.  That way people can be tested before they walk on the ship and other venues.

 

Why do we go to lawyers, doctors, specialists who have studied for years to be “experts?” Because we are not omniscient...so we depend on others who have specific expertise that we need. If my dermatologist says that spot is just a freckle, of our attorney says to sign the contract...we are paying them for specific expertise. 

In January and February, Dr Fauci and the CDC were telling America we were at low risk of the pandemic. They were the experts advising Trump.  When Trump  blocked Chinese flights, one of the reasons many called it racist...was because of the “expert” advice that there was no big problem.

 

Cruise ships sailed on that “expert“  advice. Just as we rely on our doctors, our lawyers, every administration must rely on the CDC and the experts at the beginning of a crisis. Now after there is REAL data, and differences appear in the expert advice...it might be time for that second or third opinion. But at the beginning, what those top experts said in January and February was the guidance most of us were ready to trust.
 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by hazence