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Why Not Suspend the Jones Act


dag144
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The Jones Act requires that ships leaving on a cruise from the continental USA stop at a foreign port before returning.  If the act is suspended cruises can begin and end in the USA without  stopping in Mexico or Canada or wherever.   This would give the CDC total control over domestic cruises, create jobs in US ports (restaurants, attractions, transportation etc.), and provide for some interesting itineraries.  It probably would enable the lines to rehire some of their own employees.  We have interesting ports on the East and West coasts plus the Gulf.  This could be a way however small of creating jobs and enjoyment for land based US citizens. 

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The Jones Act covers freight vessels.  The PVSA (Passenger Vessel Services Act is the legislation that prohibits cruise ships from carrying passengers between US ports without a foreign port stop (condensed version).  For more information on the differences between these two acts, check out https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=3363

 

 

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I agree, it would get the cruise lines up and running again.  Of course the cruise lines could re-flag.  Norwegian has the American Pride which is flagged in the US and can sail without the foreign port of call

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56 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I agree, it would get the cruise lines up and running again.  Of course the cruise lines could re-flag.  Norwegian has the American Pride which is flagged in the US and can sail without the foreign port of call

The ships can't simply re-flag. The requirements for having a ship flagged in the US include having the ship built in the US. The NCL ship was mostly built in the US and required special legislation to be allowed to be completed in Europe.

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38 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Already beat to death here:

 

 

Including the fact Jones Act is about freight, the PVSA is about passengers. Remember the "P" stands for "passengers".

 

There are a lot of good reasons in that thread. Start with the crew does not have the proper work visas to be on a ship that only goes to US ports. There are other reasons. If this was such a good idea, don't you think the CLIA would be lobbying for it? An example was given where there was a exemption granted for ships between Puerto Rico and the mainland. The cruises were given up after a year as they were not profitable.

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28 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

There are a lot of good reasons in that thread. Start with the crew does not have the proper work visas to be on a ship that only goes to US ports. There are other reasons. If this was such a good idea, don't you think the CLIA would be lobbying for it? An example was given where there was a exemption granted for ships between Puerto Rico and the mainland. The cruises were given up after a year as they were not profitable.

 

That thread also has a lot of people posting criticizing any repeal of the PVSA. It would be nice to have a thread safe to posy positive thoughts about its repeal without fear of being vociferously attacked.

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18 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

That thread also has a lot of people posting criticizing any repeal of the PVSA. It would be nice to have a thread safe to posy positive thoughts about its repeal without fear of being vociferously attacked.

KIndly show me where anyone was "attacked", let alone "vociferously attacked" in that thread. And you can go back over there to see my replies.

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I agree, it would get the cruise lines up and running again.  Of course the cruise lines could re-flag.  Norwegian has the American Pride which is flagged in the US and can sail without the foreign port of call

 

I am not a fan of the PVSA but I can’t see any reason to repeal it get cruise lines up and running again. The US and the world are not ready for that. Cruises are not a necessity. Sooner or maybe later the US and world will be ready to let cruise lines run again. The PVSA is not the obstacle.

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25 minutes ago, catl331 said:

I doubt that suspending the PVSA would have much effect in increasing interest in cruising right now.

 

Nor would it provide any more revenue for the cruise line.

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Suspending the act and allowing cruising between American ports would require the ships to meet whatever standards the

CDC sets.  If sailing were to be consider unsafe by the CDC there would be no domestic cruising by the lines.  If the CDC ruled OK, the effect would be positive on U S employment. 

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36 minutes ago, catl331 said:

I doubt that suspending the PVSA would have much effect in increasing interest in cruising right now.

 

Well said.  Outside the cozy confines of pro cruising communities there is little to no priority to get cruises back up and running.

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5 hours ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

That thread also has a lot of people posting criticizing any repeal of the PVSA. It would be nice to have a thread safe to posy positive thoughts about its repeal without fear of being vociferously attacked.

The fact that people might have different opinions than you is not a vociferous or even personal attack. And the nature of a forum is that people will have different opinions. 

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I appreciate the detailed differences between the Jones Act and the PVSA. Outside of these threads, it's a comparison most aren't aware of. And reading some of the PVSA violation examples, may have many of us think twice about getting off at unexpected ports, booking B2B to mention a few! 

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17 hours ago, dag144 said:

Suspending the act and allowing cruising between American ports would require the ships to meet whatever standards the

CDC sets.  If sailing were to be consider unsafe by the CDC there would be no domestic cruising by the lines.  If the CDC ruled OK, the effect would be positive on U S employment. 

And, how is this different from what is in place now, on foreign flag cruise ships that must make international voyages?  And with each state deciding when and how to reopen their economies, what guarantee would there be that these "more profitable" coastwise cruises could port where they intended?  Demand would be limited, pricing would be high, due to measures required by the CDC, and so the amount of money the cruise lines would add to the US economy would shrivel, and money spent to implement this could be used better to restart other areas of the economy.

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As a practical matter the Jones Act is probably not a big stumbling block.  We were on a cruise San Diego  to Hawaii for which the foreign stop was Ensenada Mexico.  We were due to dock in Ensenada from 5 PM to 8 PM.  As a result of changes in the itinerary we never docked but at 5 in the morning, the mexican authorities were ferried out to the ship and all the paperwork required to show a stop in Ensenada was   completed and the ship went on its way without any passengers or as far as I know Crew ever setting foot in Ensenada.

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On 4/22/2020 at 6:15 AM, Mary229 said:

I agree, it would get the cruise lines up and running again.  Of course the cruise lines could re-flag.  Norwegian has the American Pride which is flagged in the US and can sail without the foreign port of call

The re-flagging is just the first and probably easiest part. Once you've re-flagged your now under US Employment rules, which means an increase in pay for all your staff and I believe that a certain % (all?) have to be eligible to work in the US. 

 

We took a around Hawaii Cruise back in October 2001 on what ever line was doing at that time. The ship was the old HAL Noordam, but i remember that all the staff (waiters, stewards, etc.) we interacted with were Americans. 

Edited by drowelf
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23 minutes ago, Wonderingabout said:

As a practical matter the Jones Act is probably not a big stumbling block.  We were on a cruise San Diego  to Hawaii for which the foreign stop was Ensenada Mexico.  We were due to dock in Ensenada from 5 PM to 8 PM.  As a result of changes in the itinerary we never docked but at 5 in the morning, the mexican authorities were ferried out to the ship and all the paperwork required to show a stop in Ensenada was   completed and the ship went on its way without any passengers or as far as I know Crew ever setting foot in Ensenada.

Again, it's not the "Jones Act" it's the PVSA that applies to passenger vessels.

Edited by Shmoo here
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32 minutes ago, Wonderingabout said:

As a practical matter the Jones Act is probably not a big stumbling block.  We were on a cruise San Diego  to Hawaii for which the foreign stop was Ensenada Mexico.  We were due to dock in Ensenada from 5 PM to 8 PM.  As a result of changes in the itinerary we never docked but at 5 in the morning, the mexican authorities were ferried out to the ship and all the paperwork required to show a stop in Ensenada was   completed and the ship went on its way without any passengers or as far as I know Crew ever setting foot in Ensenada.

Those kinds of "technical" port stops are no longer allowed.

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There was an attempt back in July of 2011 to alter the PVSA with bill H.R. 2460. It would have eliminated the foreign port requirement for passenger vessels traveling for more than 24 hours with a portion being on the high seas. I don't believe the bill got out of committee in the House of Representatives. Now, after reading about the cruiseline tax benefits for the cruises remaining "foreign", I understand why there wouldn't be any support for such a bill from the cruise industry. I agree with others that regardless of the PVSA, with closed ports, 14-day quarantines, lack of available flights and no available vaccine, any cruiseline would have a VERY hard time filling a ship for the rest of 2020.

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