Getting your airfare cancelled when your cruise gets cancelled

[Psoque]

Hi.  I'm assuming that many of us have had our cruises cancelled so far, and I'm assuming that getting the (independently purchased) flights cancelled is the unfortunate chore that comes with cruise cancellations.

 

I recently had to deal with one of the US based airlines to cancel a non-cruise related round trip flight that we had for late May, and I wanted to share my success in making a request for a refund.

 

We had a non-stop, round trip flight, from Chicago to Frankfurt, which we purchased in February of this year.  We were wondering if the airline will cancel the flight on us, so that we did not have to argue with them.  However, the airline, instead of just cancelling the flights, without telling us, re-booked us on a multi-connection flight that now departs more than 6 hours before the original departure time.  The fact of the matter is that, 6 hours is actually the magic number for this particular airline (the biggest one in Chicago) that makes the change "significant."  Also, change from nonstop to a roundabout connecting itinerary would also be a "significant" change, according to the US Department of Transportation.  The US Department of Transportation is telling airlines that they must allow for refunds if the itinerary is changed "significantly."

 

Cancellation interface on this particular airlines is designed to refuse refunds.  To request for a refund, it asks you first to "cancel" the reservation.  If you blindly follow that instruction, you will be given just an option to either accept a voucher or re-book on another flight.  The option for actual refund was hard to find online...I believe the website has recently been tweaked to make sure request for a refund will be hard, and there is a trap to make some customers accept a voucher in the process of cancelling a reservation.  So I figured out that I have to talk to a human being on the phone.

 

Anyways, a couple of days ago, I called the airline to see what they can do.  I was polite, but I made the mistake of asking the agent "what can they do."  He said, there are flights (whether they were even operating or not, now knows?) that he can potentially switch to that leaves Chicago at a time less then 6 hours from the original itinerary.  He basically ignored the fact that the original flights were nonstop.  I asked him if I can cancel the whole thing and get a refund.  He refused to give me a refund, only a (time limited) voucher, so I politely said I'm just going to wait, and asked him to do nothing to the reservation.

 

I did more reading online, and figured out that I have to be still polite and extra nice but be extremely direct.  So I called the airline again this evening and as soon as I introduced myself, I said to the agent "I had a nonstop round trip itinerary, and you changed it to a connecting itinerary that leaves more than 6 hours before the original departure time.  I would like to cancel this reservation and receive a refund, not a voucher."  I also added "I believe US Department of Transportation is advising all US airlines to issue a refund when a significant change was made to the original itinerary."  Then the agent did something on the computer and then told me she will process a request for a refund.

 

I'm not exactly sure if the second agent was just competent and understanding, or perhaps this airline changed its policy since the last call, but I am reading on the internet that what you tell this particular airline during a request for cancellation/refund is making a difference in the outcome.

 

It would be great to know from others how their flight cancellation negotiations with the airlines are going.  I guess if the flights are entirely cancelled by the airlines, it would be easier to us to deal with.

 

I have a cruise on Crystal Symphony in September, and the flights are with the same airline.  I'm already dreading the possibility of the need to make a phone call (or series of phone calls) to the airline to cancel/get a refund for the flights for this cruise, if the cruise gets cancelled.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Psoque
fixed some typos

[Txcotn]

Sometimes you have to ask at least 3 times before you get what you want so they know you are serious. We had an issue a few  years ago and could not get anywhere with the phone rep, just a continually repeated non-reason. But when we got to the airport and checked in, all was resolved. A friend in the medical field told us a long time ago that the first answer from insurance companies is always “no” and you have to go from there to 3 times to get action. It is the same with town councils when a production company wants to make a movie in our city, the first answer, no matter what the request, is always “no”.  “No” is so much less time consuming than actually working with people.

[Roland4]

8 minutes ago, suzeluvscruz said:

 It is the same with town councils when a production company wants to make a movie in our city, the first answer, no matter what the request, is always “no”.  “No” is so much less time consuming than actually working with people.

 

That's interesting. Around here the first answer is "Yes" even though those of us who have to live with the noise and interruption to our lives are screaming "Not only NO, but HELL NO!!" 😁

[Txcotn]

11 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

 

That's interesting. Around here the first answer is "Yes" even though those of us who have to live with the noise and interruption to our lives are screaming "Not only NO, but HELL NO!!" 😁

Well that’s about the size of it! And they also say the same to cruise ships! 

[Jules1]

We were booked on the Dubai-Rome May 8th Symphony Cruise, which was cancelled in March. We’d read on a travel site that if the airline e cancels your flight they have to give you a refund instead of a voucher. We watched our reservation. Last week our flight was cancelled, which we fully expected given that it was into Dubai and out of Rome. We received an email saying that we would automatically receive an e-credit to be used in the next 2 years. We called the airline and requested a refund for our 2 first class tickets.  They immediately issued the refund, without any questions or discussion. Great experience. Now if only we could get the refund on the cruise......

[Benita]

Psoque- I have had not one, but two Crystal cancellations, both with flights I had booked on my own for my husband and I.

     The first was the Symphony from Singapore to Dubai, which was supposed to leave tomorrow. We had booked flights with American Airlines using Points. When a Crystal first changed embarkation to Kuala Lumpur, a place to which we could not get, and told us a cancellation on our part would get us a FCC, which we had to use by the end of the year ( things with Crystal have changed a lot since then) we switched to the Serenity from Rome to Monte Carlo, which was supposed to leave tomorrow. (Talk about jumping from the frying pan into the fire, but the world was different back then). I bought two nonstop tickets on Delta from Miami to Rome.

     Getting the points put back from American was easy. One phone call and $175 later, our 280,000 points was back in our account. American refunded the taxes and British Air, their partner for the Dubai to Miami segment refunded my credit card for the seat assignment fees within a few days. Had we waited until the flight was cancelled by the airline, we would have saved the $175, but this was over 2 months ago, when things were not so crazy.

     When the Rome to Monte Carlo Serenity Cruise was cancelled,  and Italy become the Covid-19 hot spot, I figured I would wait and see what happened with the Delta flight. Even though the flight ceased to exist, when I logged into my Delta account it was always there with the countdown to checkin. I figured they were hoping I would cancel and take the credit. Nowhere on their website was an explanation that you could ever get a refund.

    Anyway, my patience paid off. The day before the flight, you can check the flight status on the website, which I did and it said that flight did not exist and I should call Delta. I did and only was on hold for three minutes before a live person picked up. I explained my situation and she confirmed the flight was cancelled and they could put me on a four connection flight. I told her I would opt for a refund. I was prepared , with my DOT regulation in front of me for an attempt to issue a credit, but she said a refund would be given.  
     Lo and behold, the $3500 refund was on my credit card in two days. 
    I only wish  Crystal was anywhere near as punctual with refunds.

[sierrafloridacruiser]

We got a full refund from Delta for our May 4th return flight from Prague. I was able to request refund online.  One of our tickets was purchased with Skymiles points and the points were refunded immediately. The other ticket was credited back to our Amex card within 72 hours. Yay Delta. Still waiting on Regent and Crystal refunds. 

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, Benita said:

I only wish  Crystal was anywhere near as punctual with refunds.

 

Remember that airlines and cruiselines exist in vastly different regulatory worlds.

[waterbug123]

8 hours ago, sierrafloridacruiser said:

We got a full refund from Delta for our May 4th return flight from Prague. I was able to request refund online.  One of our tickets was purchased with Skymiles points and the points were refunded immediately. The other ticket was credited back to our Amex card within 72 hours. Yay Delta. Still waiting on Regent and Crystal refunds. 

 

Of the US-based airlines, Delta has been the leader adapting to the current situation.  They have been the first to announce the waiving of change fees, extension of flight credits, extension of frequent flyer elite status, etc.  So it doesn't surprise me that your Delta refunds have been pain-free experiences.  Others, including American, United and Southwest, have lagged behind Delta in making such policy changes.

[Jules1]

Our experience was also with Delta - no questions asked or attempt to talk us into e-credits -  $10,000.00 refund issued.

They have been amazing.

Julie

[Benita]

13 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Remember that airlines and cruiselines exist in vastly different regulatory worlds.

I wish the cruise lines could be regulated like the airlines, but as they are registered outside the US, they march to their own drummer. They should not be able to hold onto our money for 90 days as many of them have said they will do.  

[Psoque]

It's good that the cruise lines did not get any of the US Congressional bail out money.  Maybe, sometime before the next crisis like this, some of the cruise lines will change their tax-evading ways and start payinig US taxes...probably my wishful thinking.

 

But on the other hand, I seriously think we should not have bailed out the US airlines without any substantial strings attached to it.  If the Congress had any guts, they should have not bailed them out, and use that money to bolster the unemployment money pool and other infrastructure that could have really helped the people, not the corporations and their parasite executives.  So, in short, US airlines did not deserve the bail-out money.  Also, I don't think the airlines are regulated enough, not because regulation is necessarily a good idea, but because without regulation, the airlines tend to (and they certainly have) abuse their position and wasting taxpayer's $$$.  So, just being a US tax-paying status will not make any corporation more ethical.

[klfrodo]

7 minutes ago, Psoque said:

 

 

Also, I don't think the airlines are regulated enough, not because regulation is necessarily a good idea, but because without regulation, the airlines tend to (and they certainly have) abuse their position and wasting taxpayer's $$$.  So, just being a US tax-paying status will not make any corporation more ethical.

be careful what you wish for.

Airline travel today is cheaper than what it was when the airline industry was regulated in the 70's and early 80's.

[FlyerTalker]

4 hours ago, Benita said:

I wish the cruise lines could be regulated like the airlines, but as they are registered outside the US, they march to their own drummer. They should not be able to hold onto our money for 90 days as many of them have said they will do.  

 

And would you say the same thing if you suddenly found out that your cruise was going to cost you two to four times what you are currently paying?  Seems you want the upside of almost instantaneous refunds while ignoring the overall costs your wish would create.

[Psoque]

1 hour ago, klfrodo said:

be careful what you wish for.

Airline travel today is cheaper than what it was when the airline industry was regulated in the 70's and early 80's.

The problem with that argument (the one the airlines and their beneficiaries in the Congress love to tell you) is that the way airlines were regulated made it more expensive to fly, but it's not that all regulations are going to cost more money for consumers.  There are ways to regulate them without raising the cost as high as it was back then. 

[FlyerTalker]

50 minutes ago, Psoque said:

The problem with that argument (the one the airlines and their beneficiaries in the Congress love to tell you) is that the way airlines were regulated made it more expensive to fly, but it's not that all regulations are going to cost more money for consumers.  There are ways to regulate them without raising the cost as high as it was back then. 

 

I'd be very interested to learn what those "no cost" regulations might be.  Also, the likelihood of regulatory capture is quite high when there are very few players in the regulated industry.

 

Further, I love your use of "raising the cost as high".  I assume that means you agree prices would rise, but are hopeful that somehow they won't rise too much.

[Psoque]

1 minute ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

I'd be very interested to learn what those "no cost" regulations might be.  Also, the likelihood of regulatory capture is quite high when there are very few players in the regulated industry.

 

Further, I love your use of "raising the cost as high".  I assume that means you agree prices would rise, but are hopeful that somehow they won't rise too much.

There are costs of regulation, but also benefits.  Right now, the airlines are allowed to do everything and anything to increase their profits, even at the peril of their existence.  Also, when I say "regulation" I'm more saying this in terms of consumer protection.  Right now, the airlines are allowed to do business in a way that is very different from any other business, and frankly I think they are taking advantage of their position.  I don't think the airlines were regulated in the right way when they were "regulated" either.  But just saying all regulation are bad makes no sense to me.  I'm in healthcare, and it is regulated very heaviliy.  But healthcare is regulated in most industrialized countries.  However, the cost of healthcare is really high in the US and low in some countries, even in countries with higher relative costs of living.

[Benita]

13 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

And would you say the same thing if you suddenly found out that your cruise was going to cost you two to four times what you are currently paying?  Seems you want the upside of almost instantaneous refunds while ignoring the overall costs your wish would create.

Since I was not writing about the costs of cruising, just regulations about refunds, you have no idea about  what I am ignoring . There is no way that providing refunds in a timely matter would raise the cost of a cruise two to four times, so if you are looking to criticize a reasonable request, you replied to the wrong post. 

[FlyerTalker]

4 hours ago, Benita said:

Since I was not writing about the costs of cruising, just regulations about refunds, you have no idea about  what I am ignoring . There is no way that providing refunds in a timely matter would raise the cost of a cruise two to four times, so if you are looking to criticize a reasonable request, you replied to the wrong post. 

 

You wrote, and I quote : "I wish the cruise lines could be regulated like the airlines"

 

That is vastly different from "regulations about refunds".  So yes, I do know that you are conflating two different concepts.

[Benita]

43 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

You wrote, and I quote : "I wish the cruise lines could be regulated like the airlines"

 

That is vastly different from "regulations about refunds".  So yes, I do know that you are conflating two different concepts.

If regulations can mandate refunds in a more timely fashion, I am all for it. Not, of course, if it will cause the fares to be two to four times normal, but in your zeal to change the subject from cruise lines slow refund policy, you had to invent a ridiculous amount. 
     We are obviously under quarantine for too long, if this is the best we can do in a discussion forum- LOL.
 

[EllieinNJ]

I wonder if the OP is talking about United.  We had a one way Seattle to Newark nonstop for May 10.  They changed it to a 45 min stopover.  We called to get a refund and was refused.  Only a voucher.  Last week they changed it again but now 6hours earlier with 3 hour layover.  Called again to get refund but again refused.  We spoke with a supervisor too and she refused.  While on the phone with her she now changed it again so there wouldn't be 6 hour difference to protect United.  They really are devious.  Will try again in a few days.

[SplashOfWater]

27 minutes ago, EllieinNJ said:

I wonder if the OP is talking about United.  We had a one way Seattle to Newark nonstop for May 10.  They changed it to a 45 min stopover.  We called to get a refund and was refused.  Only a voucher.  Last week they changed it again but now 6hours earlier with 3 hour layover.  Called again to get refund but again refused.  We spoke with a supervisor too and she refused.  While on the phone with her she now changed it again so there wouldn't be 6 hour difference to protect United.  They really are devious.  Will try again in a few days.

Wow, totally different response from Delta. We had a one way Seattle to Orlando nonstop for May 24. They changed it to a connecting flight with a plane change. I called two days ago to get a refund on our non-refundable tickets. No questions asked, they issued the refund, including the extra $ we paid for priority boarding. The credit showed up on my card this morning. I've definitely put Delta at the top of my list for future air travel.

[AF-1]

Yea Delta is my go to airline.  Have been using them for 20 years.  We cancelled our May airline from CVG-ZUR.  Went on Delta's twitter site and the agent had me taken care of in less than 40 min.  We have already booked Delta for Oct CVG-LHR.  If this cancels there is no re-booking fee. 

[PaulMCO]

On 4/22/2020 at 8:10 PM, Psoque said:

 

We had a non-stop, round trip flight, from Chicago to Frankfurt, which we purchased in February of this year.  We were wondering if the airline will cancel the flight on us, so that we did not have to argue with them.  However, the airline, instead of just cancelling the flights, without telling us, re-booked us on a multi-connection flight that now departs more than 6 hours before the original departure time.  The fact of the matter is that, 6 hours is actually the magic number for this particular airline (the biggest one in Chicago) that makes the change "significant."  Also, change from nonstop to a roundabout connecting itinerary would also be a "significant" change, according to the US Department of Transportation.  The US Department of Transportation is telling airlines that they must allow for refunds if the itinerary is changed "significantly."

 

 

 

The past rule on United was a 3 hour rule for a significant change.  It used to be documented on their web site and then magically disappeared.

 

Oceania  cancelled our cruise for May in March.  We had booked separate 1 ways from MCO to SIN and then at the cruise end SFO to MCO for July.   Initial discussions with UA netted cancellation and a credit with a rebooking  fee waiver.  Escalating to Customer Service did little.  Having status with an airline does matter and I used this in appealing via email  (1KVoice) and letter enclosing proof of the cruise line cancellation.  It worked -- refunds on both tickets of almost $5000. If UA did not do this I would have waited until the last day before cancelling, which would have likely worked at least for the SIN flight.

[oldfashioncruiser]

The airline called to reschedule our flight that they canceled.  .   I told them I wanted to check my calendar because I was not sure when I wanted to go.   Then I asked if I could just get a refund and she said YES since they canceled it.   We have friends traveling with us and the airline never mentioned to them that they could get a refund.   I said I would call back and book new flights when I decided when to go.     

  I am planning to go next March and was thinking I might ask for the refund and then book the new flights since a month ago the flights seemed really cheap but March was not open for booking yet.  I just looked and flights are three times what I paid.     Now I am thinking I will just call and have them rebook it for me.    Glad I did not get the refund.         Is anyone else finding that flights have gone up in price for next year?