Who are Holland America's target market?

[npcl]

2 hours ago, KirkNC said:

To me HAL has lacked strategic direction for five or more years.  They don’t seem to know what or who they want.  They seem to throw things at the wall to see what sticks.

The problem is that they are in a niche, that doesn't quite work out.  Their average ship size makes their ships less economically efficient than the other main stream lines, but they are competing in a very price sensitive market.  Much of their traditional audience wants premium cruise services and features, for main stream prices.   They have gotten the reputation as having the oldest demographics and has had problems attracting younger cruisers. 

 

So they need to compete on price, yet do so within their smaller average ship size, at the same time they need to rejuvenate their customer base.  

 

I tried HAL 7 years ago and did not care for it.  Tried it again two years ago and have taken 4 additional HAL cruises over the last 24 months.

 

Last year we sailed on 4 different lines.  On all of them the service and food are not what they were 5 years ago. Our view is that these days you cam get a better meal at almost any shore side restaurant than you can on board a mainstream cruise ship. The choices, the ingredients are not what they used to be.  But that is pretty much across all of the main stream lines.

[Horizon chaser 1957]

On 4/23/2020 at 6:50 AM, Roz said:

 

There is a continuing supply of over 60s, but what each generation of over 60s want is different - there's the rub.

To a certain extent this is true - especially in music and entertainment venues.

But regarding rock climbing walls etc. -  It’s a sad fact of life that when your generation becomes the new over 60’s, you discover that your 40’s body got left behind along the way.
 

[MTAK]

We are in our late 30s - mid 40s and have taken two HAL cruises since Sept. 2018, one Eurodam to Alaska and one N. Amsterdam to eastern Caribbean.  Both cruises had enough people near our age range we never felt out of place, there seemed to be plenty of folks who I'd guess were the 40-60 range and some younger than us.

 

We like HAL so far and ideally our next cruise will be on N. Statendam in spring 2022. Based on a recommendation, we'd like to try Celebrity but the value isn't there for us at the moment.  The itineraries I am looking at are $3-400 pp more, and we would need to upgrade the drink package, as their base package does not include craft beers like HAL's Signature package. And I'm concerned that we would not enjoy ourselves as much as we have on HAL's Signature ships. The music walk has been great for us and we really would like to experience Rolling Stone Rock Room.  I'm afraid we would miss that on Celebrity.

 

As to the OP, I think amusement park items added to HAL's ships would not be good for us. We prefer the more laid back experience.

[KroozNut]

7 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

I cruised Eurodam Sep, 2019.  The CD was replaced with someone called a EXC host, or somethingorother.  No joke telling and no real energy.  She was a very monotone figure who hosted destination talks, sometimes as the evening main theater entertainment.  

 

Sounds like a CD by a different name to me. And the rest of your commentary is simply subjective opinion of your particular experience.

 

Our CD on Eurodam was quite engaging, personable and got around the ship a lot mingling with passengers... you know, kinda like what CD's (or whatever they're called now) do.

[DeeDee Groff]

10 hours ago, KirkNC said:

To me HAL has lacked strategic direction for five or more years.  They don’t seem to know what or who they want.  They seem to throw things at the wall to see what sticks.

 

Couldn't agree with you more, Kirk!

[lyndarra]

On 4/23/2020 at 9:53 PM, puppycanducruise said:

I cruise on Holland America.

I do not want rock climbing walls or water slides.

I don't care if they have them or not. I don't have to use them.

Could say the same about casinos. Wasted space IMO but I don't have to use it.

Edited June 29, 2020 by lyndarra
for clarity

[lyndarra]

On 4/27/2020 at 7:06 AM, echoshipmate said:

Lots of pompous people who are so certain of their own class. HAL needs to replace the most senior members as they will not be sailing with anyone much longer. We have always been, and still are, huge HAL fans, 4 star, so we have earned our Stars. Main problem to me is, I don't think HAL knows what they want to be when they grow up! With luck, we will be still sailing with them when they figure it out.

In my experience the HAL age demographic appears to be going down and not entirely because my age has increased (just) a little since I first cruised with HAL eight years ago.

My most recent was Australia/New Zealand in February on Maarsdam. A fantastic cruise with a good mix of ages. Excellent in service, food, entertainment and itinerary. Better than Noordam to New Guinea December 2018 (and it was good).

 

[RocketMan275]

15 hours ago, npcl said:

The problem is that they are in a niche, that doesn't quite work out.  Their average ship size makes their ships less economically efficient than the other main stream lines, but they are competing in a very price sensitive market.  Much of their traditional audience wants premium cruise services and features, for main stream prices.   They have gotten the reputation as having the oldest demographics and has had problems attracting younger cruisers. 

 

So they need to compete on price, yet do so within their smaller average ship size, at the same time they need to rejuvenate their customer base.  

Lot's of 4* & 5* Mariners who are in bed before sun down and who spend their days napping in the Crow's Nest.

[JeffElizabeth]

On 4/23/2020 at 5:30 AM, navybankerteacher said:

Holland America used to have a target market - the more mature, somewhat more upscale traveler willing to pay a bit more for superior food, service, good music and reasonable entertainment - on classic-appearing, small ships.  For some reason, Carnival Corp. wanted HAL to compete with their other brands so they changed their focus.   It has been stated that their over-60’s market was dying off - but they may have not noticed that there is a continuing supply of over-60’s in the pipeline.

Very accurate,  at least in America,  the over 50 crowd is getting bigger every year, over 30%. 55 here. I don't need water slides. I want interesting ports, good service, and good food. I don't need Broadway shows but I do like lectures about the areas we are going to see. 

[KroozNut]

5 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Lot's of 4* & 5* Mariners who are in bed before sun down and who spend their days napping in the Crow's Nest.

 

My kind of vacation!... NOT..lol 🙂

[KroozNut]

2 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

I don't need water slides. I want interesting ports, good service, and good food. I don't need Broadway shows but I do like lectures about the areas we are going to see. 

 

Sounds like HAL is the perfect brand for you!

 

[JeffElizabeth]

16 hours ago, lyndarra said:

In my experience the HAL age demographic appears to be going down and not entirely because my age has increased (just) a little since I first cruised with HAL eight years ago.

My most recent was Australia/New Zealand in February on Maarsdam. A fantastic cruise with a good mix of ages. Excellent in service, food, entertainment and itinerary. Better than Noordam to New Guinea December 2018 (and it was good).

 

And ages will depend on cruises chosen. The longer the cruise, the more likely the passengers will be older. People who are still working don't normally have a month of vacation time.  Short cruises to Alaska in the Summer have younger passengers.  

[Sea42]

1 hour ago, JeffElizabeth said:

And ages will depend on cruises chosen. The longer the cruise, the more likely the passengers will be older. People who are still working don't normally have a month of vacation time.  Short cruises to Alaska in the Summer have younger passengers.  

More and more younger people can work from anywhere. Do your work off line and wait for a good internet connection to upload it. Two of our kids had started cruising last year, neither take vacation time when they go somewhere.

[KirkNC]

16 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

And ages will depend on cruises chosen. The longer the cruise, the more likely the passengers will be older. People who are still working don't normally have a month of vacation time.  Short cruises to Alaska in the Summer have younger passengers.  

I wonder if this will be the case going forward.  Some elderly may decide the risk of cruising, particularly a longer cruise, is no longer wise.  Then there is still the possibility of medical screening or even possibility the unpopular age cutoff for elderly passengers.

[Georgie562]

My first ever Holland America cruise was in 2017 . I was only 33 years old. What targeted me or attracted me was the very unique itinerary. So it's not necessarily just meant for the older more subdue type. 

 

Yes of course the ship was dead by 9PM and I expected that going in. It was a 22 day port intensive itinerary so I did not mind the short nights. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Georgie562

[JeffElizabeth]

52 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I wonder if this will be the case going forward.  Some elderly may decide the risk of cruising, particularly a longer cruise, is no longer wise.  Then there is still the possibility of medical screening or even possibility the unpopular age cutoff for elderly passengers.

Good point. I could see the new normal in cruising will be younger passengers and shorter itineraries. 

Of course we are 55, retired and have two long transatlantic cruises scheduled in June and September 2021. 

[JeffElizabeth]

16 minutes ago, Georgie562 said:

My first ever Holland America cruise was in 2017 . I was only 33 years old. What targeted me or attracted me was the very unique itinerary. So it's not necessarily just meant for the older more subdue type. 

 

Yes of course the ship was dead by 9PM and I expected that going in. It was a 22 day port intensive itinerary so I did not mind the short nights. 

Ours was our 10th anniversary in 1997. Alaska of course, we were only 32. We did get attention because of how young we were but we enjoyed it have been cruising for more than 20 years. 

[kochleffel]

I've been on only one HAL cruise, and it was just for 7 nights, so my experience may not be typical. People had warned me to expect many  very elderly passengers, but that wasn't the case. By far the largest number seemed to be in my own demographic: over 60 but under 70, mostly youngish retirees and early retirees. I am semi-retired but not able to take long cruises because my work is year-round. Quite a few younger than that, including some couples with school-age children who weren't with them -- it was in January just as school was resuming.

 

After my last winter cruise, on aNother Cruise Line, I was wary. That cruise, even though the line seems to be aiming for younger people, had mostly passengers who were older than I and wildly uncongenial. People kept yelling at me about politics even though I never introduce politics into a conversation with a new acquaintance -- just hearing where I lived set them off. It was bizarre.

 

I liked both the ship, the Nieuw Amsterdam, and the passengers on HAL a lot and would cruise more with HAL if the pricing worked better for me.

[Aquahound]

On 6/28/2020 at 8:05 PM, KroozNut said:

 

Sounds like a CD by a different name to me. And the rest of your commentary is simply subjective opinion of your particular experience.

 

Our CD on Eurodam was quite engaging, personable and got around the ship a lot mingling with passengers... you know, kinda like what CD's (or whatever they're called now) do.

 

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.  Maybe it was limited to only Eurodam, but I doubt it.  The person was not your traditional CD.  Her entire job was limited to destination lectures.  That was it.  Oh well, no biggie.  Some people didn't care about CDs anyways.  

[Mary229]

4 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.  Maybe it was limited to only Eurodam, but I doubt it.  The person was not your traditional CD.  Her entire job was limited to destination lectures.  That was it.  Oh well, no biggie.  Some people didn't care about CDs anyways.  

 We had the same experience on the Koningsdam.  I told my husband it was like listening to a high school book report with excerpts.  I can read my own travel book, thank you.  Nice person but no depth of knowledge.   

[Mary229]

5 hours ago, kochleffel said:

I've been on only one HAL cruise, and it was just for 7 nights, so my experience may not be typical. People had warned me to expect many  very elderly passengers, but that wasn't the case. By far the largest number seemed to be in my own demographic: over 60 but under 70, mostly youngish retirees and early retirees. 

I have often thought the same thing only to discover that the very active new gym buddy is actually closer to 80 than 65.   Cruising must be good for vitality and longevity.   I have been cruising with HAL since my late 30s as I like the laid back, classic yet relaxed style. 

[npcl]

On 6/28/2020 at 8:05 PM, KroozNut said:

 

Sounds like a CD by a different name to me. And the rest of your commentary is simply subjective opinion of your particular experience.

 

Our CD on Eurodam was quite engaging, personable and got around the ship a lot mingling with passengers... you know, kinda like what CD's (or whatever they're called now) do.

On my most recent HAL cruises It seemed to be more of adding the duties of the port lecturer to the job of CD, and getting rid of the port lecturer, than getting rid of the CD.

Edited June 30, 2020 by npcl

[kochleffel]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I have often thought the same thing only to discover that the very active new gym buddy is actually closer to 80 than 65.

 

True. Conversation is often a better indicator -- cultural references and word choices.

[drowelf]

1 hour ago, npcl said:

On my most recent HAL cruises It seemed to be more of adding the duties of the port lecturer to the job of CD, and getting rid of the port lecturer, than getting rid of the CD.

That exactly what they have done. On our last cruise (April 2019) that actually had both, I had a long talk with the Exc Guide/Port Lecturer on that subject. He stated that the positions got combined and in fact he was offered an opportunity to have that position. He declined taking the offer. His stated reason, (which I agreed with) that it would be a rare person who could perform both jobs excellently and he was not one of them. 

 

On our first cruise with the combined position, the lectures were pro-forma and generally consisted of stock slides with very little value add that I could discern. Was really disappointed. We got better information on the ports from the shopping assistance lectures than the port lectures. 

 

Over the years I found that a well researched lecture on an upcoming port could really enhance the experience once ashore. As the Port Expert can spend the time in port learning about it, without having to do any of the other stuff required by the CD. I wonder how often a CD can actually get off the ship for the day to explore a port. 

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, drowelf said:

 

 

Over the years I found that a well researched lecture on an upcoming port could really enhance the experience once ashore. As the Port Expert can spend the time in port learning about it, without having to do any of the other stuff required by the CD. I wonder how often a CD can actually get off the ship for the day to explore a port. 

On a Princess British Isles cruise, on the streets of Dublin we once had the cruise director and one of the assistant cruise directors pass us going in the opposite direction.

 

The best port lectures we ever had were from a cruise director John Lawrence also on a Princess cruise (Baltic). One of the things that made his talks special was that he not only described the ship excursions, but also how to do the port on your own.