Later Embarkations; no boarding day lunch, cabins ready, Seapass activated at muster station + other ideas

[not-enough-cruising]

2 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I don't think you can really equate military and civilian life when it comes to rights.

Constitutional rights you can.

 

Others, not so much, I agree.

[broberts]

5 hours ago, rtazz17 said:

Not in america. Remember we have a constitution and a bill of rights. This isnt happening.

 

Based on that logic driver & hunting licenses are unconstitutional.

[Sunshine3601]

I receive emails from this travel source on a regular basis.  I find most of their articles interesting.  Here is one on how marriott and hilton plan on handling guests and disinfecting.  Now of course it  is very easy to social distance at a hotel.

But thought I would share their ideas

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/marriott-hotels-new-cleaning-routine-involves-sanitizing-sprayers-and-uv-light?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=cnt&utm_mailing=CNT_COVID_042620&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&bxid=5cc87c0ccff06b7e08539930&cndid=57158723&hasha=766b02f6057dbbe891155136cb17ffca&hashb=94207a1d47f22dd185543cacd8e143b043eb2233&hashc=d882f66a1aa7acc66c83f28c865d52fed650d99e45beb922ff16c53e0fec3907&esrc=survey_rca_2017&utm_content=Final&utm_term=CNT_Daily

[jrapps]

5 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Huge difference between a less than 14 hour confinement of ~350 people and spending 160 hours in close proximity of ~5,000 people.

 

Daily testing of crew is not really feasible. It is costly both for the test and lost hours. But also because it would be quite difficult to keep separate negative test subjects from the yet to be tested.

I think coming up with a way to test everyone reliably, even in a day basis, is more feasible than letting 5,000 guests and CREW 6 feet away from each other at all times. I also think (or hope) that we have that level of testing before a vaccine is ready (which will be at least a year)

 

No situation will ever be perfect, testing or distancing. But my opinion is you do everything you can to prevent anyone that is positive for the virus from boarding. 

[Hoopster95]

On 4/25/2020 at 7:44 AM, LMaxwell said:

I could envision changes to embarkation in the future. 

 

 

Hey LMaxwell.... great start to the thread even though it's gone sideways. Going back to the first couple of pages, I wish to ask if you thought about cruisers that are infected (but don't know they are until tomorrow) or those that are asymptomatic and will never have any clue that they carry the virus unless they are tested?

 

Almost every idea you put forward I think has great validity.... but only if every single cruiser stepping onto that gangway is 100% virus free. Here's my example.

 

Turnaround.... ship deep cleans for an extra day and into the afternoon with late boarding, seapasses in the rooms, "virutal" muster drill is set, etc etc etc.... all the things offered on this thread. One of the many COVID-iots on this forum who want to cruise tomorrow are the very first in line at the gangway. These COVID-iots do not know that they are asymtomtaic as they've never been tested... heck "won't happen to them!". That couple races up the gangway super excited to get on a ship again, laughing, excitedly speaking with each other, droplets of there saliva landing everywhere as they go up the gangway, walk through the promenade, talking (droplets) in the elevator to their deck. Passengers #3&4 follow, holding the handrail as they walk up the gangway.... same gangway as passengers #1 & #2 just spit all their microscopic droplets onto. Passenger #3 has diabetes and unknown to them has a respiratory defect that has not been discovered. passenger #5 goes up, #6, #7..... until everyone has boarded #3000.

 

7 day sailing to Cococay is great!!! Everyone has an awesome time!!!! Reviews come in! Everyone is happy! This forum is on fire!!!!!!!

 

14 days after the sailing Passenger #3 reports that they are sick. 2 or 3 more sailings have happened after this person, so another 6000-9000 cruisers are now immediately on edge. Day 15 passenger #3 gets tested positive. Day 16 & 17 a few more on that sailing report they are now sick. Day 20, passenger #3 dies.

 

All that deep full day cleaning, delayed boarding, virtual musters.... all of it.... means jack squat.

The only thing that matters is that passenger #1 & #2 can be 100% confirmed that they do not have the virus.... as well as passenger #3 & #4.... and so on on, and so on, and so on. Deep cleaning and the many ideas here on this thread will not reduce or keep at bay an airborne virus. There has to be a quick test of some sort.... somehow, someway... a miracle vaccine or miracle test to prove a cruiser is not infected and/or immune before they step onto the gangway.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Hoopster95

[rimmit]

All the talk about a daily test is just not feasible.  Let’s do some quick math.

 

Lets say through some miracle we can get a test that can somehow we can get a specimen from a passenger and have the test run in 2 minutes.  (This is insanely fast and outside of an accucheck (home glucose monitoring) I cannot think of a test that can give results that fast.). Let’s say with crew and pax on a medium size RCI ship we are talking 5000 people.  That is 10000 minutes or 166 hours of testing a DAY.  You would need 7 machines running continuously everyday to keep up with a workload of 5000 tests at 2 minutes a test.  
 

Daily testing is just NOT feasible for an entire boat of crew and passengers.  Even with a rapid point of care test that does not require complex lab equipment it is just not feasible.  To get everyone tested in the 6 hours it would take to board the ship, you would need 27 machines or POc tests.  Now let’s say you don’t need machines and it’s more like a strep test.  A rapid strep test with no machine takes 5 minutes to run.  In theory then you can swab everyone as they check and have them wait 5 minutes at check in till the test comes back and then let them board.  The issue is those types of tests tend to have a high false negative rate.  
 

All tests can give a false negative,  tests that give you a High false negative and someone ends up spreading it and Next thing you know you have a quarantined boat again.
 

Testing will be handy to have to try and isolate people on board but from a daily standpoint it’s just not feasible.   The only way is if covid testing becomes as easy as glucose monitoring, and everyone brings their own and self checks themselves daily.  Now you have trust the passengers to self monitor....   and that could get interesting.

Edited April 27, 2020 by rimmit

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, Hoopster95 said:

There has to be a quick test of some sort.... somehow, someway... a miracle vaccine or miracle test to prove a cruiser is not infected and/or immune before they step onto the gangway.

I agree, and that test has to be administered more than just on embarkation day to have accurate results. Doing it once INO is just virtual signalling.  I also have to wonder what, if any testing will occur when the ship returns to disembark the guests.
 

I also think gone are the days of the express walk off; at least for the next year, maybe two. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[Hoopster95]

12 minutes ago, rimmit said:

That is 10000 minutes or 166 hours of testing a DAY.  You would need 7 machines running continuously everyday to keep up with a workload of 5000 tests at 2 minutes a test.  

 

Yup... and what happens on port days in Cozumel? or Costa Maya? or St Marten?

13 minutes ago, rimmit said:

Now you have trust the passengers to self monitor....   

 

This is a suicide mission for any cruise line

[A&L_Ont]

20 minutes ago, rimmit said:

Testing will be handy to have to try and isolate people on board but from a daily standpoint it’s just not feasible.   The only way is if covid testing becomes as easy as glucose monitoring, and everyone brings their own and self checks themselves daily.  Now you have trust the passengers to self monitor....   and that could get interesting.

It seems to further some folks who say no cruising until there is a vaccine. Almost seems/sounds like only those who have had the vaccine can cruise.
 

The cruise lines only have one shot at this, and if they screw it up they are done. The more I think about it I’m glad I didn’t buy RC stock at $20.  

Edited April 27, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[Hoopster95]

4 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

The cruise lines only have one shot at this, and if they screw it up they are done. 

 

I believe 100% they will try.... no doubt about it in my opinion. Else why not just go bankrupt right now? The  millionaire shareholders/CEO's/etc will try to save what they have and hopefully whatever plan is made works and everybody (all of us) live happily ever after.

 

So I figure by fall they'll have some tests cruises somewhere. Maybe not US home ported, but somewhere. Nassau? Falmouth??

However they'll also have miniscule (if not zero) chance for error. One of the big three will try first... I wonder which one? 

 

LMaxwell's original post is totally awesome for after the "bankruptcy" event so to speak... to provide cleaner ships ongoing, prevent noro sailings & provide some protection from sicknesses for cruises of the future.

[rimmit]

10 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

It seems to further some folks who say no cruising until there is a vaccine. Almost seems/sounds like only those who have had the vaccine can cruise.
 

The cruise lines only have one shot at this, and if they screw it up they are done. The more I think about it I’m glad I didn’t buy RC stock at $20.  

If the CDC even gives them another chance to screw up.  They burned a ton of goodwill from Feb 13th-Mar 30th. (And continued to burn more bridges in other countries).

 

If they even get a second chance before a vaccine it will take a miracle to not screw it up.

Edited April 27, 2020 by rimmit

[Ocean Boy]

15 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

I also think gone are the days of the express walk off; at least for the next year, maybe two. 

Why is that? The major difference with Express walk off is people have their luggage with them.

[Ocean Boy]

13 minutes ago, rimmit said:

If the CDC even gives them another chance to screw up.  They burned a ton of goodwill from Feb 13th-Mar 30th. (And continued to burn more bridges in other countries).

 

If they even get a second chance before a vaccine it will take a miracle to not screw it up.

Everyone keeps pinning cruising to this future vaccine. I, for one, am very concerned about a vaccine that has a lot of political push behind it and some entity having the potential to make a ton of money. The FDA has not gotten it right with many drug releases in the past. I don't know that I'd be first in line to roll up my sleeve. If that means I can't get on a ship for awhile so be it.

[rimmit]

Agree.  FDA is incredibly underfunded.
 

That being said I have taken larger risks than taking a marginally proven vaccine in my life.  We’ll just have to see how this plays out.  Sadly there is no magic bullet.

[John&LaLa]

So the CDC had no authority to infringe on my right to cruise. 🤔

 

I'm calling Morgan & Morgan😇

[A&L_Ont]

50 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Why is that? The major difference with Express walk off is people have their luggage with them.

Just my train of thought.  In the beginning I do not see the Government letting thousands of folks off the ships without spot checking some/many. If there is heightened screening at embarking, why would there not be at disembarking.  
 

We have all seen “the push” at disembarkation, and the behaviour of some under normal circumstances.  I personally would not want to see it when cruisers expect things to be be the old normal, when in reality they experience the “new normal”.  
 

If the ship has a 24 hour turn around the last guest doesn’t have to be off by 9:30, unlike now, so there is no hurry. Similar to how security and customs changed after 9/11, only now they the fighting the invisible terror.

 

The press and many in the general public see cruise lines as culprits.  If the cruise lines get a free pass and they turn out to be the cause of the next outbreak, no fault of their own, the industry and the government will be raked over the coals. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[molsonschooner]

On 4/25/2020 at 7:42 PM, LMaxwell said:

At 60% capacity do they host all events with low turnout (to continue physical distancing) or do they condense events and limit open venues (negating the purpose of physical distancing)? 

at 60% capacity I think the cruise lines will be out of business

[Biker19]

9 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

In the beginning I do not see the Government letting thousands of folks off the ships without spot checking some/many.

Right, but the spot check could be the same as embarkation, a 2 sec temp check.

[Ocean Boy]

9 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

Just my train of thought.  In the beginning I do not see the Government letting thousands of folks off the ships without spot checking some/many. If there is heightened screening at embarking, why would there not be at disembarking.  
 

We have all seen “the push” at disembarkation, and the behaviour of some under normal circumstances.  I personally would not want to see it when cruisers expect things to be be the old normal, when in reality they experience the “new normal”.  
 

If the ship has a 24 hour turn around the last guest doesn’t have to be off by 9:30, unlike now, so there is no hurry. Similar to how security and customs changed after 9/11, only now they the fighting the invisible terror.

 

The press and many in the general public see cruise lines as culprits.  If the cruise lines get a free pass and they turn out to be the cause of the next outbreak, no fault of their own, the industry and the government will be raked over the coals. 

Maybe it is my timing as to when  I actually join the walk off but I have most times found it to be very quick, laid back, and free of crowds of people. 

[broberts]

21 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Right, but the spot check could be the same as embarkation, a 2 sec temp check.

 

It would be more than 2 sec. Given how well many follow directions likely average around 30 sec. About  20 hours per boarding.

 

I just wonder how many are going to be willing or able to pay cruise fares that are double pre pandemic rates?

[Biker19]

32 minutes ago, broberts said:

It would be more than 2 sec.

I'm talking about remote thermal camera technology in which folks only need to be funneled into a line.

[Ocean Boy]

Just now, Biker19 said:

I'm talking about remote thermal camera technology in which folks only need to be funneled into a line.

Then there is the issue of various nationities that don't seem to have the foggiest notion of what the concept of a line is.☺

[Biker19]

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

Then there is the issue of various nationities that don't seem to have the foggiest notion of what the concept of a line is.☺

You can aim the camera at the exit of the walk through metal detector - hopefully, folks walk through there one at a time.

[island lady]

Oh great...so when I am having a hot flash as I leave the ship...it will be like the Salem witch trials.  😮 

[A&L_Ont]

23 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

I'm talking about remote thermal camera technology in which folks only need to be funneled into a line.

 

Social distancing and departing a cruise ship are two words which do not go together.

 

10 minutes ago, island lady said:

Oh great...so when I am having a hot flash as I leave the ship...it will be like the Salem witch trials.  😮 

 

Might be the best comment of the day. LOL