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Later Embarkations; no boarding day lunch, cabins ready, Seapass activated at muster station + other ideas


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19 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

You can aim the camera at the exit of the walk through metal detector - hopefully, folks walk through there one at a time.

 

Once they have a high temp spike the entire disembarkation process could grind to a halt. 

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12 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

Once they have a high temp spike the entire disembarkation process could grind to a halt. 

Doesn't need to, just like at airport, you get diverted to a "secondary screening" but others keep on going.

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On 4/25/2020 at 2:05 PM, Homosassa said:

For those who are horrified at the idea of later boarding and no lunch being available, I can say from experience (yeah, I am old) that boarding a cruise was not always a "get on board early"  stampede .

 

....Depending on the boarding time, the cruise line might have provided a cold buffet of sandwiches and salads as a snack......

 

Maybe pre-packaged meals in biodegradeable containers (in case a gust of wind blows them over the rail and into the water.)

 

Make it more efficient and reduce crowding by reducing the amount of choice for boarding lunch.  Get your packaged tray with choice of meat, fish, chicken, veggie and move on to a private cubby to eat. Or order in advance and have the meal waiting for you in your cabin.

 

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Simply “fogging” a cruise ship with a disinfectant does not meet EPA-registered label requirements without proper pre-cleaning and may be a violation of federal law.  More importantly, improper application of the disinfectant can lead to a false sense of security, an increase in health hazards and not be effective at reducing the risk of the spread of COVID-19. The CDC hasn’t deemed the “fogging” method as the most effective way to combat COVID-19, as it doesn’t clean the affected surfaces. No disinfectant will be effective unless the surface is first cleaned with soap and water or with an appropriate detergent. Every EPA-registered disinfectant also requires a specific length of contact time in which the surface must remain wet with the disinfectant, prior to air drying or mechanical rinsing/drying. 

 

To fully disinfect the Diamond Princess cruise ship from COVID-19 took the world's largest disaster restoration company utilizing 240 workers all wearing disposable biohazard suits, along with booties, gloves, and full-face respirators nearly an entire month as indicated in    https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/04/24/coronavirus-cleanup-how-cruise-ship-sanitized-after-outbreak-diamond-princess/5136469002/

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22 hours ago, Newleno said:

I concur,  very very wrong to tell people to go out during a critical statistical period of massive exponential expansion of the virus, and that is when it was super spread. 

Our Mayor is an idiot!!!

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13 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Hey LMaxwell.... great start to the thread even though it's gone sideways. Going back to the first couple of pages, I wish to ask if you thought about cruisers that are infected (but don't know they are until tomorrow) or those that are asymptomatic and will never have any clue that they carry the virus unless they are tested?

 

Almost every idea you put forward I think has great validity.... but only if every single cruiser stepping onto that gangway is 100% virus free. Here's my example.

 

There has to be a quick test of some sort.... somehow, someway... a miracle vaccine or miracle test to prove a cruiser is not infected and/or immune before they step onto the gangway.

Agree 100%.  The measures might be practical to implement; but until we have a clear pathway in the future of how to handle this, it's just discussion.  Everything I truncated from your post was spot on and well thought out.  

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16 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

I don't think you can really equate military and civilian life when it comes to rights.

Back in the early 80's, I relocated to upstate NY, changed careers and went into teaching. Before I could do my student teaching in a local high school, I had to prove what immunizations I had, receive any I was missing, and get booster shots as needed , so  apparently, it is/was not specific to military life.

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4 minutes ago, SA - Cruiser said:

Simply “fogging” a cruise ship with a disinfectant does not meet EPA-registered label requirements without proper pre-cleaning and may be a violation of federal law.  More importantly, improper application of the disinfectant can lead to a false sense of security, an increase in health hazards and not be effective at reducing the risk of the spread of COVID-19. The CDC hasn’t deemed the “fogging” method as the most effective way to combat COVID-19, as it doesn’t clean the affected surfaces. No disinfectant will be effective unless the surface is first cleaned with soap and water or with an appropriate detergent. Every EPA-registered disinfectant also requires a specific length of contact time in which the surface must remain wet with the disinfectant, prior to air drying or mechanical rinsing/drying. 

 

To fully disinfect the Diamond Princess cruise ship from COVID-19 took the world's largest disaster restoration company utilizing 240 workers all wearing disposable biohazard suits, along with booties, gloves, and full-face respirators nearly an entire month as indicated in    https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/04/24/coronavirus-cleanup-how-cruise-ship-sanitized-after-outbreak-diamond-princess/5136469002/

I beg to disagree with you about fogging not meeting EPA label requirements.  The cruise line has for decades used Virkon as a fogging agent, solely, for control of infectious diseases.  Cleaning a surface with soap and water only removes virus from the surface, soap does not disinfect or sanitize, it is merely a lubricant.  While it is not known whether products like Virkon are effective against Covid, it most likely is, as it does a great job against an encapsulated virus like noro, and a non-encapsulated virus like Covid is easier to kill.  Fogging also provides the means to place disinfectant on soft surfaces that cannot be "washed" with soap and water, and it also provides the required contact time.

 

The "sanitizing" of the Diamond Princess was mostly a PR exercise, since all they had to do was leave the ship empty for a the month they spent "disinfecting" it, and the virus would have died off from lack of host in that time anyway.

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40 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

Once they have a high temp spike the entire disembarkation process could grind to a halt. 

 

Excuse me Sir/Ma'am, please step aside for us to do a more thorough scan.  Is this your travelling companion(s)?  They need to come with us.  Everyone else move along.

 

You get an interview and a quick check by an available physician who has the authority to end your trip.  Either stick a thermometer in your mouth with disposable tip cover, or an in=the-ear thermometer.  Have you or your family been sick in the last two weeks?  Maybe they might have a quick turnaround swab test by then.  Wait to the side for 15 minutes for the results.  After which, you either go on your journey, or get sent home with a full refund and a goody bag.

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16 minutes ago, SA - Cruiser said:

Simply “fogging” a cruise ship with a disinfectant does not meet EPA-registered label requirements without proper pre-cleaning and may be a violation of federal law.  More importantly, improper application of the disinfectant can lead to a false sense of security, an increase in health hazards and not be effective at reducing the risk of the spread of COVID-19. The CDC hasn’t deemed the “fogging” method as the most effective way to combat COVID-19, as it doesn’t clean the affected surfaces. No disinfectant will be effective unless the surface is first cleaned with soap and water or with an appropriate detergent. Every EPA-registered disinfectant also requires a specific length of contact time in which the surface must remain wet with the disinfectant, prior to air drying or mechanical rinsing/drying. 

 

To fully disinfect the Diamond Princess cruise ship from COVID-19 took the world's largest disaster restoration company utilizing 240 workers all wearing disposable biohazard suits, along with booties, gloves, and full-face respirators nearly an entire month as indicated in    https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/04/24/coronavirus-cleanup-how-cruise-ship-sanitized-after-outbreak-diamond-princess/5136469002/

I agree.

 

But that fogging is also "Security Theater" to make you feel like something is being done.  They do it all over Europe and Asia.  I saw footage where they were fogging the streets!

 

It's also like TSA which has been proven to be largely ineffective for the amount of manpower deployed.  It just makes the herd feel safer.

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On 4/26/2020 at 8:19 AM, parrotfeathers said:

I've never really realized how many "lines" we navigate when we go on a cruise.  My first "line" encountered is at the airport.  Really looking forward to reading about the first cruisers on this forum so we can learn how lines will now be handled.  I wonder if, when the virus is "gone," things will go back as before.

 

 

The virus will NEVER be gone.  Just like Swine Flu, Norovirus, H1N1, HIV/AIDS an Ebola are still around.

 

We will either develop a treatment that reduces deaths to an acceptable level like we have for the above viruses (vaccine is estimated to be a year or two away).  Or we will have steps to mitigate the contagion onboard (like social distancing, gloves and wiping).

 

States are lifting quarantines even though they know it could lead to further infection.  Reality is life has to go on.  Either shut down the cruise industry for good, or accept the risk, have insurance to compensate passengers and move on.  The bean counters will figure a way to make money even if a whole ship gets sick.

 

I think an acceptable level of risk is when we just let 60,000 people die a year of corona in the US.  That's how many currently die of the flu, and millions are still dying of AIDS (worldwide) and we don't care anymore.  The flu is hidden by "pneumonia" as cause of death.  AIDS still has stigma, so we only hear that someone dies of some other system failure, usually pneumonia.

Edited by BillHoo
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1 hour ago, island lady said:

Oh great...so when I am having a hot flash as I leave the ship...it will be like the Salem witch trials.  😮 

This is the funniest quote I've heard in a long time!!  Thank you for the laugh, I needed it! (And I feel you on the hot flashes!)

 

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23 hours ago, island lady said:

 

I never go to the departure lounge...we stay in our cabin until departure time.  We usually have an earlier departure tag time, and don't use self assist.  

 

I forget, do they have room service available before departure time?

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10 minutes ago, KATHYMAC68 said:

This is the funniest quote I've heard in a long time!!  Thank you for the laugh, I needed it! (And I feel you on the hot flashes!)

 

 

You are most welcome sister....they sure do fog our glasses too!   🙂 

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38 minutes ago, BillHoo said:

 

Excuse me Sir/Ma'am, please step aside for us to do a more thorough scan.  Is this your travelling companion(s)?  They need to come with us.  Everyone else move along.

 

You get an interview and a quick check by an available physician who has the authority to end your trip.  Either stick a thermometer in your mouth with disposable tip cover, or an in=the-ear thermometer.  Have you or your family been sick in the last two weeks?  Maybe they might have a quick turnaround swab test by then.  Wait to the side for 15 minutes for the results.  After which, you either go on your journey, or get sent home with a full refund and a goody bag.

The discussion is about people disembarking at the end of the cruise.  Their trip has already ended, and they are already presumably on their way home.

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17 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Greater than 50% of the population refuse the annual influenza vaccine. How do we ensure that those boarding the ship have had the vaccine?
Don’t get me wrong, I agree; I’m just questioning the feasibility of enforcement and compliance. 

I will not be the first one on line to board a ship and I won't be the first one on line for a vaccine. Let the people who are so eager to cruise be the first to try out both. I will continue to monitor the situation. 

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In all this chatter about taking temps before embarkation, showing health notes or proof that you are immune.... What about HIPPA/privacy laws?  It's only a matter of time before someone sues the cruise lines saying that their private medical records shouldn't be a factor when it comes to their  vacation.

 

There are some great ideas in this thread. But Cruise lines have to start offering more public spaces and stop stuffing passengers in every square inch.  They have to start building smaller ships instead of 5000+ passenger ones. Crowds + lines = more potential for illness, no matter how well you clean a ship. 

 

I know this goes against their business model.  Maybe the cruise lines are taking a "this too will pass" attitude with the hopes that all this is be a memory in a year or 2, and people will start cruising again.  And they may be right--who knows? 

 

I had to cancel my 5/17 Med cruise.  I don't see myself taking another cruise within the next 12-18 months. I'll continue to monitor as well. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, MaritimeR&R said:

Back in the early 80's, I relocated to upstate NY, changed careers and went into teaching. Before I could do my student teaching in a local high school, I had to prove what immunizations I had, receive any I was missing, and get booster shots as needed , so  apparently, it is/was not specific to military life.

I made a general comment about rights in the two groups. I didn't reference reference immunization histories. 

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20 minutes ago, donlyn1 said:

In all this chatter about taking temps before embarkation, showing health notes or proof that you are immune.... What about HIPPA/privacy laws?  It's only a matter of time before someone sues the cruise lines saying that their private medical records shouldn't be a factor when it comes to their  vacation.

 

There are some great ideas in this thread. But Cruise lines have to start offering more public spaces and stop stuffing passengers in every square inch.  They have to start building smaller ships instead of 5000+ passenger ones. Crowds + lines = more potential for illness, no matter how well you clean a ship. 

 

I know this goes against their business model.  Maybe the cruise lines are taking a "this too will pass" attitude with the hopes that all this is be a memory in a year or 2, and people will start cruising again.  And they may be right--who knows? 

 

I had to cancel my 5/17 Med cruise.  I don't see myself taking another cruise within the next 12-18 months. I'll continue to monitor as well. 

 

 

HIPPA rules don’t apply here. This is a voluntary sharing of your information that you are 100% in control of in order to take part in a voluntary social activity. 

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38 minutes ago, donlyn1 said:

In all this chatter about taking temps before embarkation, showing health notes or proof that you are immune.... What about HIPPA/privacy laws?  It's only a matter of time before someone sues the cruise lines saying that their private medical records shouldn't be a factor when it comes to their  vacation.

 

There are some great ideas in this thread. But Cruise lines have to start offering more public spaces and stop stuffing passengers in every square inch.  They have to start building smaller ships instead of 5000+ passenger ones. Crowds + lines = more potential for illness, no matter how well you clean a ship. 

 

I know this goes against their business model.  Maybe the cruise lines are taking a "this too will pass" attitude with the hopes that all this is be a memory in a year or 2, and people will start cruising again.  And they may be right--who knows? 

 

I had to cancel my 5/17 Med cruise.  I don't see myself taking another cruise within the next 12-18 months. I'll continue to monitor as well. 

 

 

First of all, HIPAA applies to medical facilities. The cruise line can certainly ask for information. You do not have to supply the information. They do not have to let you aboard their ship.

 

As for needing smaller ships, I feel safer in the open air of Oasis's Central Park or Aqua Theater than I would in the main theater of Empress.

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1 hour ago, donlyn1 said:

In all this chatter about taking temps before embarkation, showing health notes or proof that you are immune.... What about HIPPA/privacy laws?  It's only a matter of time before someone sues the cruise lines saying that their private medical records shouldn't be a factor when it comes to their  vacation.

 

There are some great ideas in this thread. But Cruise lines have to start offering more public spaces and stop stuffing passengers in every square inch.  They have to start building smaller ships instead of 5000+ passenger ones. Crowds + lines = more potential for illness, no matter how well you clean a ship. 

 

I know this goes against their business model.  Maybe the cruise lines are taking a "this too will pass" attitude with the hopes that all this is be a memory in a year or 2, and people will start cruising again.  And they may be right--who knows? 

 

I had to cancel my 5/17 Med cruise.  I don't see myself taking another cruise within the next 12-18 months. I'll continue to monitor as well. 

 

 

There are currently ( and have been for a long time) rules preventing women who are past a certain point in a pregnancy from cruising.  That's obviously a medical condition that they are able to ask about.

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1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

As for needing smaller ships, I feel safer in the open air of Oasis's Central Park or Aqua Theater than I would in the main theater of Empress.

 

You need to try a "small"er ship that is properly staffed ship (ie. 1:1 staff to passenger ratio) with enormous amount of public space like most luxury lines have... your opinion may change. If the cruise lines survive, the luxury lines have a large head start versus all the mass market lines imho

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4 hours ago, BillHoo said:

 

The virus will NEVER be gone.  Just like Swine Flu, Norovirus, H1N1, HIV/AIDS an Ebola are still around.

 

We will either develop a treatment that reduces deaths to an acceptable level like we have for the above viruses (vaccine is estimated to be a year or two away).  Or we will have steps to mitigate the contagion onboard (like social distancing, gloves and wiping).

 

States are lifting quarantines even though they know it could lead to further infection.  Reality is life has to go on.  Either shut down the cruise industry for good, or accept the risk, have insurance to compensate passengers and move on.  The bean counters will figure a way to make money even if a whole ship gets sick.

 

I think an acceptable level of risk is when we just let 60,000 people die a year of corona in the US.  That's how many currently die of the flu, and millions are still dying of AIDS (worldwide) and we don't care anymore.  The flu is hidden by "pneumonia" as cause of death.  AIDS still has stigma, so we only hear that someone dies of some other system failure, usually pneumonia.


The acceptable level will be whatever steady state we reach once we have some

immunity, maybe a couler treatments that can reduce mortality a little, and as long as Covid can coexist with other disease processes without overwhelming healthcare systems.  Covid can coexist Without lockdowns as long as it doesn’t overrun the hospitals.  If this didn’t overrun hospitals we likely would never have had to lockdown to begin with (obviously if it didn’t overrun hospitals it would obviously not be as virulent either).

 

It could be 60k a year, could be 100k a year.   Really hard to say.   Ultimately what it is is what it is when we get to that steady state.   Life has to go on.  We can’t shelter in place for forever.
 

I know that what is likely not going to be acceptable is every time a cruise ship sails there is a postable death rate for that cruise or cruiseline.  15/3000 passengers on the Ruby Princess died.  That is 0.5 percent or about 1/200.   For a non essential vacation, a 1/200 death rate is just not acceptable.  The DIamond Princess has 10/2700 for a 0.3 percent death rate.  We have ended other nonessential activities for Far far smaller death rates.  We ended the volcano tour which has had thousands of visitors over the years with a much smaller chance at death.  A 0.5-0.3 percent death rate for a cruise with A Covid outbreak is just not worth it. Combined with the logistical nightmare of repatriation quarantining etc.
 

 The news used to blowup every time there was a SINGLE death due to an accident on a cruise ship.  I don’t think cruising can handle being under constant media scrutiny with the likelihood of an outbreak every time a cruise takes off.  The cruise lines should thank their lucky stars the world fell apart right when Cruise ship after cruise ship was having an outbreak otherwise ALL the attention would have been on them.  


 

Edited by rimmit
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