Substantial Doubt of 'Going Concern'

[LMaxwell]

3 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Could easily be for TAs.  

I believe it is for TA's and not for internal employees.  Internal employees are already well aware of salary cuts and furloughs. There have been plenty of TA's, however, on social media saying they can not in good conscience continue to sell NCL product not knowing if they are taking peoples money that will vaporize.  I believe this is aimed at calming down those that sell cruises and provide all kinds of talking points for them.  But it's all a bit "pat ourselves on the back for plans of what we hope happens in the future" 

[Corliss]

http://www.nclhltdmedia.com/news-releases/news-release-details/norwegian-cruise-line-holdings-ltd-announces-offering-ordinary

[ECCruise]

Thanks, but all 3 of the "Big 3" are going to be built on a mountain of massive debt, even worse than before.  This is not a prescription for success in what is going to be a declining market--whether minor or major--but definitely unlikely to be filling all this inventory they've added the last few years.

[SeaWatcher65]

39 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Also, check your coverages carefully; I have cards that include free insurance/travel protection, etc., but stipulate the entire booking must be made on the card, no partial payments for partial coverage, for example

Chase Sapphire travel card is one of the best.  As long as some portion, any portion, is paid for with the Chase card, trip insurance is good.  I usually get supplemental trip insurance only for medical and evacuation -- to cover what my health plan will not (and I have international coverage with my health plan).  But that ship doctor could be expensive!

 

[TeeRick]

8 minutes ago, Corliss said:

http://www.nclhltdmedia.com/news-releases/news-release-details/norwegian-cruise-line-holdings-ltd-announces-offering-ordinary

I'm also going to invest in shares of the Titanic.  Maybe I will use my $1200 from the US Govt. stimulus check.

[KeepCalmBearOn]

3 hours ago, Shawnino said:

This is NCL's own filing/release. Nothing to do with the media.  Educate yourself.

 

Educate yourself cuts two ways. The language in the media reports is way more sensationalized than the actual reports themselves. The actual reports to the SEC were pretty standard, "what ifs" and "this might" stuff. In no way did NCL say or imply in the filings "we doubt if we can survive", which is what the news reports imply.

 

3 hours ago, tallnthensome said:

They need more than $400 million. That will float them a few more months but....

 

So you think L Catterton is just throwing away money that they will never see a return on?

 

3 hours ago, HANSENDE said:

"Norwegian Cruise Line said there is “substantial doubt” about its ability to continue as a “going concern”

 

No, that is NOT what NCL said in the filings. Go read them. You can't quote the actual report for two words, then switch to an opinion, then switch back to actual quotes. Quote the entire section verbatim and let others make their own conclusions.

 

3 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

The statement came from NCL's own SEC filing. Some CC folks show a kneejerk - and uninformed - contempt for America's news media. You'd think they'd have learned after January, February and March when CC was flooded with posts dismissing "the mainstream drive-by hype about this virus, which is nothing but the flu."

 

No, the aggressive language came from news opinions of NCL's own SEC filing.

 

As to how much about Covid 19 and its impact was hype vs reality we will find out in the future. What we know now is that we probably aren't going to get to the original projection of 2-2 1/2 million deaths (UK study) and we may not hit the 200-250k deaths by the original CDC model. When all is said and done is when we can evaluate, not know.

 

1 hour ago, LMaxwell said:

As a Palm Beach County resident I can tell you Florida is not a success story...

 

No, what you can say is that Palm Beach County is not a success story. Out of Fl's 67 counties, only 3 seem to have serious issues, Palm Beach, Miami-Dade and Broward.

 

1 hour ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

Yes, so glad we trusted Hannity and Limbaugh instead ... they assured us deep into March that this was just the sniffles, and man weren't they right?!

 

I will take your source or either Hannity or Limbaugh saying coronavirus was "just the sniffles".

 

51 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

Personally, I'm not convinced that NCL goes under this year. But to be optimistic here would require believing a few hard-to-swallow ideas:

 

Hey escape, you're in CT, run down to Greenwich and ask Michael Chu why he gave NCL $400m.

 

48 minutes ago, CrankyOldGuy said:

OK, your obscure site with no references to where they are getting their data trumps a major newspaper....

 

Did you read the newspaper account you referenced? They provided a partial reason why numbers might be different from different sources. The reporting lags and the 113 deaths didn't necessarily mean, or even imply, that the 113 reported deaths happened in a 24 hour period; which was the implication in a couple of the responses in this thread.

 

17 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

Why would they want to “fish for investors” by posting and having more bad news released? Don’t you think they have been looking for investors while their position was a little better? Most companies don’t strategically seek investors by giving horrible news that their product is almost worthless at the moment .....This wasn’t a plan, Seaman. 

 

No offense, but you do not know how to read an SEC filing.

 

I am also not sure you understand investing.

 

16 minutes ago, AdoraBelle said:

Everyone knows Florida is cooking the books on their death rates.

 

I think FL temporarily halted reporting deaths over confusion over the guidelines.

 

If anyone is cooking the books, it could be the CDC. The CDC guidelines allow reporting Covid 19 as a cause of death if "it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty)" "In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely."

 

Words like "likely" and "suspected" make me suspicious. My personal feeling is that cases and deaths are under reported, but the truth is NO ONE KNOWS and people keep repeating "official" numbers like they are Holy Writ,

[SAPMAN]

18 minutes ago, SeaWatcher65 said:

Chase Sapphire travel card is one of the best.  As long as some portion, any portion, is paid for with the Chase card, trip insurance is good.  I usually get supplemental trip insurance only for medical and evacuation -- to cover what my health plan will not (and I have international coverage with my health plan).  But that ship doctor could be expensive!

 

Although one of the best, don't be too sure CSR will cover this

[SeaWatcher65]

2 minutes ago, SAPMAN said:

Although one of the best, don't be too sure CSR will cover this

Just to be clear.  I use Chase Sapphire for the trip insurance (they cover insolvency of the trip provider) but I get another policy like Travel Guard or AIG just for medical expenses beyond what my employer sponsored plan would cover er. 

[DebbieActon]

56 minutes ago, GettotheSun said:

Oh well...looks like those of us with FCC may be up the creek without a paddle.  At least we don't have "murder hornets"...oh, never mind.

 

I spent far too much money on my planned cruise.   I'm out quite the stack if they go belly up.  Oh well, I did have fun planning it.  Maybe I'll pretend I actually went on the cruise and write a review.  Ya, that will make me feel better. lol

I see that you are from Ontario.  Did you book with an Ontario travel agent?  If yes, then any losses due to cruise line bankruptcy could be covered under their TICO insurance. 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by DebbieActon

[vicnsue]

3 hours ago, Drummer72 said:

You guys read the headline and drink the “Kool Aid” every time.  NCL will survive this.  If they do not.  No cruise line can survive. another word it too big to fail.

Exactly, thank you!

[gilboman]

36 minutes ago, Corliss said:

http://www.nclhltdmedia.com/news-releases/news-release-details/norwegian-cruise-line-holdings-ltd-announces-offering-ordinary

they can't even issue bonds, this is a pretty desperate move with how much they're paying the bankers to even offer it for them and pretty small amount ..probably figure not too many takers 

[Corliss]

8 minutes ago, gilboman said:

they can't even issue bonds, this is a pretty desperate move with how much they're paying the bankers to even offer it for them and pretty small amount ..probably figure not too many takers 

 

http://www.nclhltdmedia.com/news-releases/news-release-details/ncl-corporation-ltd-announces-proposed-offering-exchangeable

[SAPMAN]

13 minutes ago, SeaWatcher65 said:

Just to be clear.  I use Chase Sapphire for the trip insurance (they cover insolvency of the trip provider) but I get another policy like Travel Guard or AIG just for medical expenses beyond what my employer sponsored plan would cover er. 

Will they cover if you used Future Cruise Credits to rebook even if you used CSR for the cruise that was cancelled?  What about Cruise Next certs?    When can one file?  I guess the day they declare (if they do) bankruptcy?   

 

[JimS4210]

5 hours ago, William W said:

 

 

5 hours ago, William W said:

Glad I cancelled a month earlier and got my deposit back last week.

Same here! Got my $1500 back last week.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by JimS4210

[SeaWatcher65]

1 minute ago, SAPMAN said:

Will they cover if you used Future Cruise Credits to rebook even if you used CSR for the cruise that was cancelled?  What about Cruise Next certs?    When can one file?  I guess the day they declare (if they do) bankruptcy?   

 

All good questions of course.  I bought my cruise next certificates on our last cruise and have the receipt (not the 125% in lieu of a refund that some people are accepting).  Never used it but it covers "the forfeited, non-refundable pre-paid land, air and/or sea transportation arrangements that were missed".  And covered losses include the following event: "Financial insolvency of the Travel Agency, Tour Operator, or Travel Supplier whose services you booked."  Worth a try if NCL goes bankrupt.  But I was really hoping for another cruise (out of Port Orleans for the 1st time) and a Hawaii cruise!!!!!!

[SAPMAN]

2 minutes ago, SeaWatcher65 said:

All good questions of course.  I bought my cruise next certificates on our last cruise and have the receipt (not the 125% in lieu of a refund that some people are accepting).  Never used it but it covers "the forfeited, non-refundable pre-paid land, air and/or sea transportation arrangements that were missed".  And covered losses include the following event: "Financial insolvency of the Travel Agency, Tour Operator, or Travel Supplier whose services you booked."  Worth a try if NCL goes bankrupt.  But I was really hoping for another cruise (out of Port Orleans for the 1st time) and a Hawaii cruise!!!!!!

Thanks. I also looked at the coverage - but somewhat concerned as CSR may say I used FCC not credit card to purchase the "make up" cruise I already booked.  They do have an "exception" for points used I believe.   Can you get back on C.C. and look for or start a thread on how to handle CSR insurance for issues with NCL - I know that may be months.  

Of course I would like to take my cruise in late Aug, but sure if they have not filed chapter 11 but then cancel the cruise, I will not be able to get a refund from NCL.   Also some concern if we start cruise and they go bankrupt a few days later.  At least it is a NY - Quebec short cruise.

 

[GettotheSun]

34 minutes ago, DebbieActon said:

I see that you are from Ontario.  Did you book with an Ontario travel agent?  If yes, then any losses due to cruise line bankruptcy could be covered under their TICO insurance. 

 

 

Hi - unfortunately nope...I booked direct with NCL.  womp womp.

 

[mrpauly]

A few questions regarding my own trip protection on bankruptcy.  I recently used my Chase Sapphire for 2 bookings using both $1,000 FCC and $2,500 on credit card Sapphire.

 

1. Are future cruise payments (credit/cash secured) be refunded in case bankruptcy, are those payments secured since services are not rendered yet?
 

2. Would my $1,000 FCC be wiped out 100% or $500 returned?
 

3. If all else fails, would my Sapphire cover my $2,500 credit card payment (trip insurance) due to insolvency.  

If bankruptcy does actually happen, I'd expect NCL to be back and probably honor my $1,000 FCC later in time to keep loyal customers.  

 

Thanks,

Paul

[beerman2]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

I never said the SEC report was written by them. The way you keep stating they are fishing for investors Makes it sound like they are using this bad news to their advantage or strategically. They have been fishing for months.

You are trying to reason with someone who is not easily convinced. He was cruising in May ( positive he was ), then when that was cancelled June would be good. Now it's he'll just go on July. 

 

I guess August "might" be a possibly.

[Snowrose]

"This strengthens the company's financial position and ensures it is well positioned to withstand well over 12 months of voyage suspensions," said the company statement.

[julig22]

5 minutes ago, mrpauly said:

A few questions regarding my own trip protection on bankruptcy.  I recently used my Chase Sapphire for 2 bookings using both $1,000 FCC and $2,500 on credit card Sapphire.

 

1. Are future cruise payments (credit/cash secured) be refunded in case bankruptcy, are those payments secured since services are not rendered yet?
 

2. Would my $1,000 FCC be wiped out 100% or $500 returned?
 

3. If all else fails, would my Sapphire cover my $2,500 credit card payment (trip insurance) due to insolvency.  

If bankruptcy does actually happen, I'd expect NCL to be back and probably honor my $1,000 FCC later in time to keep loyal customers.  

 

Thanks,

Paul

Suggest you ask your questions in the Cruise/Travel Insurance forum - probably more knowledge, less speculation

[CruiseMH]

Every company(no matter if airline,cruise line or whatever)is always moaning that its own situation is bad. This is a natural reflex. No company will tell everybody "all fine,we have enough money to wait 12 months". With this behaviour they are trying to get as much money as possible for the best possible conditions.They are playing with the fear that they could go bankrupt.Cause in this case many other companies and also financial institutions would lose a lot of money.

 

 

[travelhound]

32 minutes ago, Snowrose said:

"This strengthens the company's financial position and ensures it is well positioned to withstand well over 12 months of voyage suspensions," said the company statement.

It could strengthen their ability to renegotiate existing debt, without filing for bankruptcy.

[SeaWatcher65]

34 minutes ago, mrpauly said:

A few questions regarding my own trip protection on bankruptcy.  I recently used my Chase Sapphire for 2 bookings using both $1,000 FCC and $2,500 on credit card Sapphire.

 

1. Are future cruise payments (credit/cash secured) be refunded in case bankruptcy, are those payments secured since services are not rendered yet?
 

2. Would my $1,000 FCC be wiped out 100% or $500 returned?
 

3. If all else fails, would my Sapphire cover my $2,500 credit card payment (trip insurance) due to insolvency.  

If bankruptcy does actually happen, I'd expect NCL to be back and probably honor my $1,000 FCC later in time to keep loyal customers.  

 

Thanks,

Paul

Good questions. The chase web site has benefits information.  And I attached it here too.  Never had to use the chase benefits, but....it says it covers insolvency and your losses (not just what you paid using the Sapphire card). If NCL files bankruptcy to reorganize (Bermuda law seem similar to US law), I would think NCL would decide to honor the cruise certificates and not make future customers angry.  But who knows?

Chase Card Benefits.pdf

[ECCruise]

29 minutes ago, CruiseMH said:

Every company(no matter if airline,cruise line or whatever)is always moaning that its own situation is bad. This is a natural reflex. No company will tell everybody "all fine,we have enough money to wait 12 months". With this behaviour they are trying to get as much money as possible for the best possible conditions.They are playing with the fear that they could go bankrupt.Cause in this case many other companies and also financial institutions would lose a lot of money.

 

 

Um, misrepresentation or fluffing in SEC reports is illegal, unfortunately.  So this don't wash.