Orlando Ashford needs to resign now!

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, Captain Ricky said:

Thanks for these pictures.  I have a lot of pics in my files but not these.  As far as the comment that she could have been saved, that is probably true but at what environmental cost?  HAL wanted to bring her into one of the bays near Sitka to put out the fire but the US Forest Service denied permission for environmental reasons.  The fear was oil and other pollution interfering with Salmon migration.  Prinsendam would have been pulled into a bay just at the time some species of salmon smolt would be migrating from their streams to the ocean.  Then there would be the possibility of oiling coastline where Herring would be spawning in 5 months.  So the decision was made in favor of the fish.  I can't fault that decision.

 

I have Burning Cold on a book shelf and I don't recall reading anything like what you are saying in that book.

[kazu]

8 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

It isn't a strawman argument to point out the unreasonable demands some are placing on the cruise lines.  The cruise lines are facing a very complex and complicated set of problems in an environment of high uncertainty.

 

It is unreasonable to demand that the cruise lines establish a set of timelines for repayments.  The cruise lines have obligations, of which the repayments are one, but they also have higher priorities.  Payroll, energy costs, debt repayment, etc., etc.  They are paying their higher priority obligations first and then repaying their passengers as they have money available.  Since their revenues are uncertain, they cannot commit to a fixed repayment schedule.

 

Too many seem to think the cruise lines are being malicious.  They think the lines are sitting on this huge pile of cash they could be using to make repayments.  Simply not true.   Whether the other lines are doing better is simply irrelevant.  HAL isn't the other lines and it is understandable that they may be in a different situation that precludes making comparisons.

 

And, HAL's cash flow is all of our problems.  It's short sighted to make demands on HAL that might force HAL to make decisions that we might regret later.   

 

And, yes, many posters do come across like those in the commercial hanging out the window yelling "It's my money and I want it NOW!"

 

 

OMG - I’m sorry - I totally get that these are tough times but I don’t think wanting a refund in 60 days is wanting it NOW.  

And, sorry, but there is no communication, nothing from HAL for any of us.  Their FB posts are all about trivia, LIncoln Stage Centre in the Liiving Room, Etc.  No communication.  Nada.

How can you preclude making comparisons to other lines?  They all have the same conundrum.  The fact that HAL isn’t handling it well is noticeable and discerning to many.  

 

HAL and Orlando Ashford need to step up and tell people what is happening and when.  JMO

 

7 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Why not?  It's textbook Public Relations 101:  If you don't have all the information, tell them that, and tell them that you'll let them know as soon as you DO have it.

 

Another great maxim that companies who take PR seriously embrace is this one:  If you don't provide a narrative, they will make one up for themselves and it will not be likely to favor you."

 

You are so right.  And I so agree👋👏👍

 

+1

[rkacruiser]

6 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

I just ordered None were lost - https://gorhamprinting.com/book/none-were-lost

 

 

Just ordered this book as well.  I was not aware that it existed.

 

6 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

he' Prinsendam' Disaster, an Officer's Account" by Mathieu J. Oosterwijk - has been on eBay more than once

 

 

This is another book that I was new to me.  I ordered it last night.  I'm going to have more reading material for a continued "sheltering in place" which I expect will happen unfortunately.  

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, cruiser4801 said:

RCCL are the best managed in the bunch.

 

Proof for your statement, please.  As a shareholder of RCI and CCL, you must read their Annual Reports in past years differently than I do.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

I've always felt that HAL are a highly dysfunctional company on a good day, with outmoded IT infrastructures (they evidently use a LOT of "off the shelf" software applications that do not integrate with one another from what I have been told) and poor intra-department communication and very inconsistent polices between individual ships and also between corporate and the ships.  I think it's a case of too many "little kingdoms" being unwilling, or unable to work together. 

 

That's on a "good" day ........ fast forward to the current situation and we can see why they are in meltdown mode!

[rkacruiser]

6 minutes ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

outmoded IT infrastructures

 

My opinion of HAL's tech department is the same that I have with other company's departments.  People are employed who have an interest in keeping their job.  Therefore, they have to find ways to "fix what is not broken" and make "improvements" to "enhance their customers online experience".  Such a practice is called Job Security 101.  For the consumer, it's too often called "Frustration 401".

[AtlantaCruiser72]

4 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

My opinion of HAL's tech department is the same that I have with other company's departments.  People are employed who have an interest in keeping their job.  Therefore, they have to find ways to "fix what is not broken" and make "improvements" to "enhance their customers online experience".  Such a practice is called Job Security 101.  For the consumer, it's too often called "Frustration 401".

 

I was mostly referring to internal non-customer facing IT/software systems.  It seems that none are well integrated and a lot of data has to be manually imported/merged.   Also many of the ships are using outdated software applications that don't communicate well with corporate, or internally with each other between departments.  They need a top to bottom front to back IT overhaul but parent Carnival Corp is NOTORIOUSLY cheap in investing in this kind of stuff.  Given the current financial situation I'm sure any IT/systems overhaul just got pushed back yet another decade!

[Captain Ricky]

51 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I have Burning Cold on a book shelf and I don't recall reading anything like what you are saying in that book.

While "Burning Cold" is a good read it is not the definitive account of the incident.  I don't know if any of the three books talk about the request to bring Prinsendam into local bays.  But I covered the story and remember the request and response. By that time it was a footnote, everyone was off the ship, everyone was safe, the national media moved on.   

[Copper10-8]

2 minutes ago, Captain Ricky said:

While "Burning Cold" is a good read it is not the definitive account of the incident.  I don't know if any of the three books talk about the request to bring Prinsendam into local bays.  But I covered the story and remember the request and response. By that time it was a footnote, everyone was off the ship, everyone was safe, the national media moved on.   

 

 

Had a very pleasant conversation (on line) with (acting USCGC Boutwell XO and author) Steve Corcoran today. He speaks highly of you! 

[Captain Ricky]

13 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

Had a very pleasant conversation (on line) with (acting USCGC Boutwell XO and author) Steve Corcoran today. He speaks highly of you! 

Sadly we lost Leroy Krumm, who was captain of USCGC Boutwell during the rescue, a couple of weeks ago.  

[Copper10-8]

1 minute ago, Captain Ricky said:

Sadly we lost Leroy Krumm, who was captain of USCGC Boutwell during the rescue, a couple of weeks ago.  

 

Sorry to hear! May he rest in peace! 

 

 

 

 

Capt. Edward Westfall, current commanding officer of Coast Guard Cutter Boutwell; retired Capt. Leroy Krumm, commanding officer of Boutwell in 1980; retired Capt. Richard Sardeson, commanding officer of Coast Guard Cutter Mellon in 1980; and Capt. Darran McLenon, current commanding officer of Mellon, pose for a photo during a reunion commemorating the 35th anniversary of the Prinsendam rescue at Coast Guard Base Seattle, Oct. 6, 2015. Boutwell and Mellon, both 378-foot High Endurance Cutters, were involved in the rescue of 524 people after the luxury cruise liner Prinsendam caught fire in the Gulf of Alaska, Oct. 4, 1980. (Photo courtesy of retired Senior Chief Stan Jaceks)

[AV8rix]

1 hour ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

I've always felt that HAL are a highly dysfunctional company on a good day, with outmoded IT infrastructures (they evidently use a LOT of "off the shelf" software applications that do not integrate with one another from what I have been told) and poor intra-department communication and very inconsistent polices between individual ships and also between corporate and the ships.  I think it's a case of too many "little kingdoms" being unwilling, or unable to work together. 

 

That's on a "good" day ........ fast forward to the current situation and we can see why they are in meltdown mode!

 

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

My opinion of HAL's tech department is the same that I have with other company's departments.  People are employed who have an interest in keeping their job.  Therefore, they have to find ways to "fix what is not broken" and make "improvements" to "enhance their customers online experience".  Such a practice is called Job Security 101.  For the consumer, it's too often called "Frustration 401".

 

59 minutes ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

 

I was mostly referring to internal non-customer facing IT/software systems.  It seems that none are well integrated and a lot of data has to be manually imported/merged.   Also many of the ships are using outdated software applications that don't communicate well with corporate, or internally with each other between departments.  They need a top to bottom front to back IT overhaul but parent Carnival Corp is NOTORIOUSLY cheap in investing in this kind of stuff.  Given the current financial situation I'm sure any IT/systems overhaul just got pushed back yet another decade!

 

Beginning in 2017 (announcement was made in late 2016) Carnival (corporate) outsourced IT to Capgemini, and it's been a disaster since.  Ummm, any doubters can check on this -- search on keywords "Carnival" and "Capgemini".

[Captain Ricky]

1 hour ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Sorry to hear! May he rest in peace! 

 

 

 

 

Capt. Edward Westfall, current commanding officer of Coast Guard Cutter Boutwell; retired Capt. Leroy Krumm, commanding officer of Boutwell in 1980; retired Capt. Richard Sardeson, commanding officer of Coast Guard Cutter Mellon in 1980; and Capt. Darran McLenon, current commanding officer of Mellon, pose for a photo during a reunion commemorating the 35th anniversary of the Prinsendam rescue at Coast Guard Base Seattle, Oct. 6, 2015. Boutwell and Mellon, both 378-foot High Endurance Cutters, were involved in the rescue of 524 people after the luxury cruise liner Prinsendam caught fire in the Gulf of Alaska, Oct. 4, 1980. (Photo courtesy of retired Senior Chief Stan Jaceks)

It's weird the way this post has diverged from its original intent.  Or not.

[rotjeknor]

10 hours ago, Captain Ricky said:

Thanks for these pictures.  I have a lot of pics in my files but not these.  As far as the comment that she could have been saved, that is probably true but at what environmental cost?  HAL wanted to bring her into one of the bays near Sitka to put out the fire but the US Forest Service denied permission for environmental reasons.  The fear was oil and other pollution interfering with Salmon migration.  Prinsendam would have been pulled into a bay just at the time some species of salmon smolt would be migrating from their streams to the ocean.  Then there would be the possibility of oiling coastline where Herring would be spawning in 5 months.  So the decision was made in favor of the fish.  I can't fault that decision.

Your welcome ! I also have the bulletin in which the shipyard announced the building of the Prinsendam and an early drawing. She looked different.

Anyhow I meant about being saved, that the fire was as good as extinguished at one point , but somebody opened a door to the engine room and the flow of oxygen gave the fire new energy.... there was no CO2 left to fight the rekindled fire.

[rotjeknor]

4 hours ago, Captain Ricky said:

It's weird the way this post has diverged from its original intent.  Or not.

It is more or less in line with the opinions vented in this thread . HAL lovers, defenders, cheerleaders on one side and people who want to see blood on the other side. For those in the first categorie, anything about HAL' s history is worthwhile digging into . In the meantime I'm waiting patiently for my refund 😉

 

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, rotjeknor said:

It is more or less in line with the opinions vented in this thread . HAL lovers, defenders, cheerleaders on one side and people who want to see blood on the other side. For those in the first categorie, anything about HAL' s history is worthwhile digging into . In the meantime I'm waiting patiently for my refund 😉

 

 

Not so. There are a number of us who don't want to see blood, we just want HAL to do their job at least as well as other lines in the same situation are doing it.

[rotjeknor]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Not so. There are a number of us who don't want to see blood, we just want HAL to do their job at least as well as other lines in the same situation are doing it.

In a lot of posts I read that communication managers, IT , Mr. Ashford himself ( see thread name) and others are failing one way or another and have to resign.

I recently looked at CMV cruises for a july cruise out of Rotterdam , they told me that in case of cancellation it would take between 60 and 120 days to process either an FCC or refund. Their company is much smaller than HAL, they probably have less office personnel as well . But it still takes ‘em the same time , or even longer to process.

I agree that HAL could take away a lot of the frustration if they would give status updates, but I’m not in favor of sacking people.

[trident]

7 hours ago, rotjeknor said:

It is more or less in line with the opinions vented in this thread . HAL lovers, defenders, cheerleaders on one side and people who want to see blood on the other side. For those in the first categorie, anything about HAL' s history is worthwhile digging into . In the meantime I'm waiting patiently for my refund 😉

 

We are not cheerleaders for HAL, just maritime history enthusiasts.  We were ready for Ashford to be fired after he changed the logo.  Not a fan of his leadership.  However, I feel HAL is doing as well or as badly as most other cruise lines.   

[strickerj]

I agree the response from HAL (and Carnival Corp in general) has been pretty poor, but if Ashford resigned or got canned, where would they find someone else both capable and willing to take his job in the midst of this crisis? I'm not sure if anyone else would be any better.

[Captain_Morgan]

Sorry to jump in at the tail end here, but I've heard from a family friend with reliable knowledge who has said that an internal announcement is coming as it relates to the future of some executives, which may or may not include the subject of this thread...watch this space as the saying goes!!

[NameThatFunnel]

 

Here is press release from HAL

 

 

 

 

Orlando Ashford to Leave Holland America Line

After More than Five Years 

 

President of premium cruise line will depart at the end of May

 

 

Seattle, Wash., May 12, 2020 — Holland America Line President Orlando Ashford announced that he will be leaving the company at the end of May. Ashford, who heads the premium cruise line within the Carnival Corporation family of brands, has been at the company for nearly five and half years and led a rejuvenation of the brand through an emphasis on enhanced onboard entertainment, live music and culinary experiences.

  

Since November 2014, Ashford has served as president of Holland America Line, leading the award-winning cruise line's brand and business, including its fleet of 14 premium vessels which carry more than 900,000 guests annually to all seven continents. He oversaw Holland America Line’s sales and marketing, revenue management, deployment and itinerary planning, public relations, hotel operations and strategy. Recently he has guided the company through an unprecedented pause in global cruise operations that have been extended through the line’s planned 2020 Alaska, Europe and Canada/New England sailing seasons.

 

“Orlando has made a substantial contribution to Holland America Line during his tenure, bringing a renewed energy to the premium cruise line that was recognized with many awards and accolades,” said Stein Kruse, Group CEO of Holland America Group and Carnival UK. “His unique background as an innovator and global leader in human resources was highly respected in our organization and his dynamism will be greatly missed.”

 

“It has been an honor and a privilege to lead the evolution of the Holland America Line brand for more than five years,” said Ashford. “I can’t say enough about the talent and teamwork both shoreside and on board the ships that has driven our many successes over the years.

 

“Today, a global pandemic has impacted our industry in ways that are completely unprecedented,” added Ashford. “However, I believe it is human nature to travel and explore new places and cultures and meet new people. I have no doubt that Holland America Line will thrive again soon, and its guests will be ready when cruise operations resume. I look forward to being one of the first to sail.”

  

Prior to joining Holland America Line, Ashford was president of the Talent Business Segment for Mercer, the global consulting leader in talent, health, retirement and investments. Previous to Mercer he served as senior vice president, chief human resources and communications officer of Mercer's parent company, Marsh & McLennan Companies. Ashford also has held several other leadership roles earlier in his career with organizations such as Coca-Cola, Motorola, Ameritech and Andersen Consulting.

 

Ashford serves on the board of directors of ITT, Inc., Hershey Entertainment & Resorts Company, Positive Coaching Alliance, Virginia Mason Medical Center and Year Up, a year-long intensive training program for underserved young adults.

 

Ashford is often recognized for his leadership. For example, Ashford was selected by Seattle Business Magazine for the 2019 Executive Excellence Award, honoring the best-of-the-best leaders in Washington state business and community.

 

Ashford’s book, “Talentism,” examines how technology and human networks can help bridge the skills gap, improve business performance and lead to the betterment of society at large. He has a second book currently in development.

Edited May 12, 2020 by NameThatFunnel

[Captain Ricky]

I just got an email trying to sell me Carnival Cruises for the beginning of September.  I asked if they realistically thought the CDC "No Sail" order would be lifted before a vaccine.  The agent on the chat line said "We can't answer for the CDC."  but "With Carnival, if you were to be on a cruise that the cruise line cancelled due to Covid, the cruise line does not have a set time for refunds to be processed and can exceed 90 days as they have over 1.5 million refunds to process."  To book the cruise I have to put up a deposit right now, (and if I book within 4 days I get extra on board credit and hotel fees paid.) and if I cancel it is non refundable.  I get the feeling that I am being asked to contribute to a big "Ponzi" scheme.

[KirkNC]

It’s very important that they get a new leader quickly to right the ship.

[1ANGELCAT]

Well the big news should make a lot of people happy. I’d like to see Stein Kruse back in charge.

[iancal]

He must have read the OP's post.

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by iancal