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Social Distancing - will ships have to rearrange or even close venues? And who regulates this?


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53 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

No, what we'll see is a spike in deaths at hospitals and a swing again to lock down, this is simply ignorance and stupidity at epic levels across all levels of the population.

 

In Europe and Asian the culture seems to have evolved to actually obey guidelines, freedom in US really has taken a turn to the sad down side.    

I'm thinking the next two weeks will show really bad news. I hope I'm wrong but the way people are disregarding almost every single thing they've been told or suggested to do.... I've said this about another issue on another site: ignorance (not stupidity) and a closed mind are truly a deadly combo. PS: I'm turning 73 in a few weeks and if this kills me I'm going to be royally...er, annoyed.

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10 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

I and others have a paywall on NYT so here's another:

 

https://www.france24.com/en/20200517-sweden-s-covid-19-strategy-has-caused-an-amplification-of-the-epidemic

 

Why do people keep bringing up Sweden?

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29 minutes ago, taglovestocruise said:

Hopefully the US will never turn into a nanny state. 

Sounds like a lot of people in the US need a nanny since they're making such dangerous decisions.

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11 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Well that makes it a lot clearer thanks🤗. To be fair that is the point I am trying to explain, if countries don't make travel insurance a regulation of entry someone at the end of the day has to foot the bill and while some can pay out of pocket there are plenty who can't and once they leave the country it is nearly impossible to extract money from them. It is hard for me to be sympathetic to the complaints of these countries because it is an easy to remedy problem but they obviously fear cutting into their customer numbers more. As I said in another post you can't just rely on good sense and good will and if countries aren't willing to mitigate that financial risk then IMO that is the price they choose to pay and they shouldn't complain about it.

 

I'm all for your country doing what you propose, as long as I don't have to pay for it.  I'm against free medical to tourists here in my home country.  I don't think we should give an incentive to those who knowingly don't exercise good sense and I don't want to foot the bill.  

 

But, I think we agree that it would be good for a financial responsibility requirement for tourists (meaning insurance).    

 

 

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20 minutes ago, cruizergal70 said:

Sweden didn't do lockdowns. So folks are trying to say that the US lockdowns were not needed.

Well, Sweden's record sucks. Right?

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30 minutes ago, clo said:

Well, Sweden's record sucks. Right?

 

Right, especially when compared to the record of other Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, and Finland).  The COVID outbreak has been far deadlier in Sweden.  Unlike its neighbors, Sweden saw a huge increase in deaths over recent months.  Stockholm's mortality increase during this period far exceeds the increase in American cities like Boston and Chicago.  (The NYT article provides details.)

 

I love Sweden and most things Swedish, but I don't love the country's approach to fighting COVID.

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28 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

Right, especially when compared to the record of other Nordic countries (Norway, Denmark, and Finland).  The COVID outbreak has been far deadlier in Sweden.  Unlike its neighbors, Sweden saw a huge increase in deaths over recent months.  Stockholm's mortality increase during this period far exceeds the increase in American cities like Boston and Chicago.  (The NYT article provides details.)

 

I love Sweden and most things Swedish, but I don't love the country's approach to fighting COVID.

 

While the Swedish model hasn't been great for Sweden it would have been worst for the USA. Sweden at least has generous sick pay so when they get sick they can afford to stay home and thereby lessen the spread of disease. Most American employees don't have this option so unless they are physically unable to walk out the door they will turn up to work sick. If USA had gone with the Swedish model the death toll would be far more devastating😔

 

Sweden's per capita coronavirus death toll is among the highest in the world — a sign its decision to avoid a lockdown may not be working

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5 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

While the Swedish model hasn't been great for Sweden it would have been worst for the USA.

But people keep touting it as the be all and end all. Is this one of those uninformed things?

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11 minutes ago, clo said:

But people keep touting it as the be all and end all. Is this one of those uninformed things?

 

I would say it is "skimming syndrome". People read the headline and maybe one paragraph and therefore miss the details that are pertinent to the story. All they see is Sweden no lockdown, the total number of deaths which give the impression of low numbers and also miss things like the differences between the two countries. Even if the Swedish model had worked in Sweden it doesn't mean it would work in a country like USA, just like lock downs are not necessarily the answer in countries like India where the lack of support systems has people starving due to no income to buy food. Every country has there own unique situation that requires their own way to deal with the COVID19 problem. You can't just look at another country and say let's copy what they are doing. 

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15 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I would say it is "skimming syndrome". People read the headline and maybe one paragraph and therefore miss the details that are pertinent to the story. All they see is Sweden no lockdown, the total number of deaths which give the impression of low numbers and also miss things like the differences between the two countries. Even if the Swedish model had worked in Sweden it doesn't mean it would work in a country like USA, just like lock downs are not necessarily the answer in countries like India where the lack of support systems has people starving due to no income to buy food. Every country has there own unique situation that requires their own way to deal with the COVID19 problem. You can't just look at another country and say let's copy what they are doing. 

Thanks. You've given me a superb perspective.

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1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I would say it is "skimming syndrome". People read the headline and maybe one paragraph and therefore miss the details that are pertinent to the story. All they see is Sweden no lockdown, the total number of deaths which give the impression of low numbers and also miss things like the differences between the two countries. Even if the Swedish model had worked in Sweden it doesn't mean it would work in a country like USA, just like lock downs are not necessarily the answer in countries like India where the lack of support systems has people starving due to no income to buy food. Every country has there own unique situation that requires their own way to deal with the COVID19 problem. You can't just look at another country and say let's copy what they are doing. 

 

People like to position things to their advantage.  Sweden has taken the no lock down, shelter in place for the highest risk only.    

 

As you can see their death rate is fare higher than their similar demographics neighbors,  next if you look at Sweden compared to US and how mortality is effected by those, if Sweden had US demographics their death rate would be even worse.

 

Lastly their economy is tanking, so even without lockdown they are tanking.    People like to ignore the worse death, and cratered economy and only focus on the fact they didn't lock down, but they are worse and not better in anything but the ability to go out and eat and not wear mask, but more deaths, and bad economy, a strange thing when you look at it all to call it better.  

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As I have said in many threads, perhaps in this thread too, I have no reason to defend the Swedish strategy because I didn't voted for the government we have now.

 

It's too early to say if the Swedish strategy is right or wrong. So far we have many more deaths than many other countries but we are doing better than a few without lockdown and masks.

 

For a couple of weeks our curve with deaths per day has been going the right way, down. Our infection rate has also been below 1,0 for a few weeks.

 

Time will tell.

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18 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

As I have said in many threads, perhaps in this thread too, I have no reason to defend the Swedish strategy because I didn't voted for the government we have now.

 

It's too early to say if the Swedish strategy is right or wrong. So far we have many more deaths than many other countries but we are doing better than a few without lockdown and masks.

 

For a couple of weeks our curve with deaths per day has been going the right way, down. Our infection rate has also been below 1,0 for a few weeks.

 

Time will tell.

 

Unfortunately you will have to get use to the Swedish model being brought up as it seems to be the desire of some Americans😆. Even if in the end it turned out to be some sort of success it still wouldn't mean it would work for the USA. As has been stated before both countries have different cultures, safety nets that influence the behaviour of citizens and of course the prevelance of underlying health issues are different. It is no different to people who laud Taiwan for their success however just because it worked there doesn't mean the same techniques would work in another country.

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18 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Unfortunately you will have to get use to the Swedish model being brought up as it seems to be the desire of some Americans😆. Even if in the end it turned out to be some sort of success it still wouldn't mean it would work for the USA. As has been stated before both countries have different cultures, safety nets that influence the behaviour of citizens and of course the prevelance of underlying health issues are different. It is no different to people who laud Taiwan for their success however just because it worked there doesn't mean the same techniques would work in another country.

 

I don't mind that it's brought up. My hope is that when this is over I can bring it up myself as a success.

 

I agree with you that even if it works here, which we don't know yet, it may not work in the USA. I do think that a lockdown was absolutely necessary in Italy.

 

I think that every countries goal is to keep the curve as flat as possible to avoid a total disaster for the health care system and so far our curve is flat enough. Many deaths now doesn't necessary mean that the total number of deaths when this is over will be higher.

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9 hours ago, chipmaster said:

As you can see their death rate is fare higher than their similar demographics neighbors,  next if you look at Sweden compared to US and how mortality is effected by those, if Sweden had US demographics their death rate would be even worse.

 

Hopefully some people here will read and analyze this and not keep repeating how great Sweden's MO was. Repeating wrong info can be dangerous. Thanks.

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