WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO RESTART CRUISE SHIPS???

[CGTNORMANDIE]

1 hour ago, Prost Seattle said:

I hope your state doesn’t regret these choices. 

People under 60 are going to have to accept a level of risk.  The stats show they are surviving.  The elderly will have to continue to shelter.  It should be a personal choice for people under 60.  

[Blackduck59]

3 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

People under 60 are going to have to accept a level of risk.  The stats show they are surviving.  The elderly will have to continue to shelter.  It should be a personal choice for people under 60.  

 

And you wonder why the largest outbreak in the world is in the United States...Good luck with that.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

2 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

And you wonder why the largest outbreak in the world is in the United States...Good luck with that.

The largest outbreak in the US was due to the idiotic mishandling of the nursing homes.  61% of the deaths were elderly...mostly nursing homes.  If you removed that 60% you would have 35,000 deaths...not even close to the annual flu deaths.

[Oville]

3 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

The largest outbreak in the US was due to the idiotic mishandling of the nursing homes.  61% of the deaths were elderly...mostly nursing homes.  If you removed that 60% you would have 35,000 deaths...not even close to the annual flu deaths.

But what % of the flu deaths each year are nursing homes? Also, where did you get the 61% stat.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

O.K.  Can we get back to the topic.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to get cruising restarted?  

[Doubt It]

8 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

Sorry buddy you were the one spouting percentages out of thin air. I don't have to support my statement it is widely reported by major news sources including the CDC that the USA has the largest out break and death toll in the world. 

Oops you chose a bad argument.

 

In Ontario, approx 71% of deaths were in long term care nursing homes. Further they are re-examining the number of deaths because many were labelled  virus 19 but were not. My sister in Ottawa says everyone is out, no one is sheltering.  She also says that in the stores it is the +50 crowd who are not wearing masks.

 

It appears the death rate in Ontario will be going down. I understand there is much inconsistency in the labeling of virus deaths, I see that NYC and Colorado (I think) will be lowering their death rate, particularly those that were in hospitals. 

 

This situation casts doubt in my mind about what is the true, accurate death rates in Countries as they are not labeled using the same criteria. So to cast stones at the USA may be premature.

 

Regarding +50 crowd and cruising - since there seems to be a trend of re-examining the death rates of this virus - then this might provide lift to confidence.

[TeeRick]

OK real statistics and a real reference from my home state of PA which has been among the hardest hit in the USA.  You can get up to date numbers from any state from their Dept of Health websites - updated every day.  No need to throw random numbers around.  

As of May 17, 2020.

 

State Total:  62,234 cases.  4418 deaths.  (7%)

Nursing Homes/Assisted Care:  15,538 cases (25% of total cases)*

Nursing Home/Assisted Care:  3057 Deaths (69% of total deaths)*

 

* includes residents and health care workers at these facilities

 

https://www.health.pa.gov/topics/disease/coronavirus/Pages/Cases.aspx

 

 

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, Doubt It said:

My sister in Ottawa says everyone is out, no one is sheltering.

Your sister is mistaken. Maybe everyone in her social circle is out and about and not sheltering but she shouldn't generalize. 

[MrCoachRentz]

2 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

O.K.  Can we get back to the topic.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to get cruising restarted?  

That's easy, open the ports and let people choose.  Manage possible infections while on the ship, just like they do with nora virus.  If experts say this will never go away, then, might as well start living and managing.  

[ch175]

11 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

And you wonder why the largest outbreak in the world is in the United States...Good luck with that.

There are currently 1.52 million confirmed cases in the US. The US population is approximately 328 million. That’s about 0.46% of the population.

 

There are some actual numbers to think about.

[markeb]

22 minutes ago, ch175 said:

There are currently 1.52 million confirmed cases in the US. The US population is approximately 328 million. That’s about 0.46% of the population.

 

There are some actual numbers to think about.

Meaningless. Out of how many tests?  The entire population hasn’t been tested. 

[Blackduck59]

Thank you TeeRick for giving proper numbers. It is a staggering statistic of mortality rates for the elderly, 25% of cases 69% of deaths. Your state really has been hit hard. Have you been able to lower the curve yet?

We have been quite fortunate on Vancouver Island, I don't think we have a new case reported in about a week and so far no outbreaks in any elder care facilities. We did have a concern in Campbell River but that was not Covid 19. Of course our provincial population density is a little misleading. British Columbia is a fair bit bigger than Texas but the population is less than half that of Pennsylvania. That being said much of the population is clustered in an area we refer to as "the lower mainland" 

Be safe and be well everyone

[ECCruise]

43 minutes ago, MrCoachRentz said:

That's easy, open the ports and let people choose.  Manage possible infections while on the ship, just like they do with nora virus.  If experts say this will never go away, then, might as well start living and managing.  

I do think that this will easily win the "things that can go horribly wrong" post of the year.

Numerous stats show annual norovirus deaths in the US at less than 800.

Covid-19 deaths in the US in less than 90 days:  over 90,000

Yep.  The ships should handle it the same way.

Wow.

Edited May 18, 2020 by ECCruise

[npcl]

12 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

People under 60 are going to have to accept a level of risk.  The stats show they are surviving.  The elderly will have to continue to shelter.  It should be a personal choice for people under 60.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/multisystem-inflammatory-syndrome-in-children-and-adolescents-with-covid-19

 

Also keep in mind that in New York

 

3.9% of all deaths was 18-44 age group

22.4% of all deaths were in the 45-65 age group

 

So as far as the people under 60 they might want ot rethink it is they have any pre-existing conditions or are male, since mean are more likely to die of COVID than women.

 

The biggest issue is not those under 60, but more the matter that they might contract covid and bring it back to their own community and contribute to community spread.  Since it is much more likely that those that are willing to accept the risk are also those that will not social distance, wear masks, or follow other rules to reduce community spread.

[Blackduck59]

29 minutes ago, ch175 said:

There are currently 1.52 million confirmed cases in the US. The US population is approximately 328 million. That’s about 0.46% of the population.

 

There are some actual numbers to think about.

 

Careful with statistics, they can be disappointing. I'm not really trusting the numbers I see out of China but reports show that out of 1.393 Billion people (that's more than a Billion more than the population of the US) reports 82,954 cases. That seems very low to me, like I said don't trust those numbers. But it does illustrate certain differences in response.

[Basketball wife]

3 hours ago, Doubt It said:

I understand there is much inconsistency in the labeling of virus deaths, I see that NYC and Colorado (I think) will be lowering their death rate, particularly those that were in hospitals. 

 

This situation casts doubt in my mind about what is the true, accurate death rates in Countries as they are not labeled using the same criteria. So to cast stones at the USA may be premature.

Inconsistency, probably. But if you compare countries’ total numbers of deaths in the same months from previous years, there is a definite uptick in 2020. What else is there to account for this?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html?auth=login-email&login=email

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

https://nationalpost.com/health/covid-19-appears-to-have-increased-total-number-of-quebec-deaths-recorded-in-april-by-35-statistics

 

Also, Fouremco is correct, not sure where, in Ottawa, your sister lives but that is not the case for my daughter who lives near Tunney’s Pasture...

 

 

[yorky]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

OK real statistics and a real reference from my home state of PA which has been among the hardest hit in the USA.  You can get up to date numbers from any state from their Dept of Health websites - updated every day.  No need to throw random numbers around.  

As of May 17, 2020.

 

State Total:  62,234 cases.  4418 deaths.  (7%)

Nursing Homes/Assisted Care:  15,538 cases (25% of total cases)*

Nursing Home/Assisted Care:  3057 Deaths (69% of total deaths)*

 

* includes residents and health care workers at these facilities

 

https://www.health.pa.gov/topics/disease/coronavirus/Pages/Cases.aspx

 

 

In my brothers area they have had 13 deaths from Covid, 10 of those were in one care home. Look we all know if you are under 60 with no underlying health conditions the risk of death is extremely low percentage wise. This virus targets  the old and vulnerable in a massive way.

[npcl]

Keep in mind one of the major impacts of COVID-19 is its impact on hospital resources. Depending upon the study the median length of time of a hospital stay is 14-19 days.  

[npcl]

12 minutes ago, yorky said:

In my brothers area they have had 13 deaths from Covid, 10 of those were in one care home. Look we all know if you are under 60 with no underlying health conditions the risk of death is extremely low percentage wise. This virus targets  the old and vulnerable in a massive way.

Tell that to Nick Cordero, he lived, barely.

Edited May 18, 2020 by npcl

[ch175]

10 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

Careful with statistics, they can be disappointing. I'm not really trusting the numbers I see out of China but reports show that out of 1.393 Billion people (that's more than a Billion more than the population of the US) reports 82,954 cases. That seems very low to me, like I said don't trust those numbers. But it does illustrate certain differences in response.

That’s true.

 

But apply some logic here.

 

At the start, the only people who were tested were those with the most severe symptoms. Now, not only are more people being tested but also people with less severe symptoms since the requirements to get tested have been relaxed.

 

On top of that, more positive tests from people with mild symptoms means the mortality rate decreases.

 

In both cases the story is that the virus is less severe/deadly than originally thought.

[npcl]

There is still much to learn about COVID in the last month we have seen the information about strokes in young adults from COVID.  The Kawasaki syndrome like symptoms in children where they have had the virus, recovered, then weeks later develop severe inflammation symptoms.  Now the cases from the Roosevelt where 13 sailors have had COVID, recovered, then developed symptoms and testing positive again.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by npcl

[biguntx]

Based on today's market movement...it will take a vaccine to get the industry moving again...

[DaveSJ711]

13 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

Please do state your sources. It seems a rather typical tactic from some Americans these days to spout random crap as fact. Sorry you, quoted a Canadian and we prefer actual truth. Be aware FOX News is not a legitimate source. So do try to support your argument with proper numbers, such as state records or CDC something of that nature.

 

Because Canadians prefer "actual truth," here is some truth:  Nursing homes account for 81% of Canada's deaths from COVID-19, a far greater proportion than in the United States.  The source for this statistic is Canada's chief public health officer, Theresa Tam.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/coronavirus-canada-long-term-care-nursing-homes/2020/05/18/01494ad4-947f-11ea-87a3-22d324235636_story.html

Edited May 18, 2020 by DaveSJ711

[npcl]

23 minutes ago, ch175 said:

That’s true.

 

But apply some logic here.

 

At the start, the only people who were tested were those with the most severe symptoms. Now, not only are more people being tested but also people with less severe symptoms since the requirements to get tested have been relaxed.

 

On top of that, more positive tests from people with mild symptoms means the mortality rate decreases.

 

In both cases the story is that the virus is less severe/deadly than originally thought.

The best study out there concerning the number of people actually infected is from Spain, one of the countries hit the worst.  It conducted a randomized scientific study of over 70,000.  The conclusion from that study was 5% of the population across the county was exposed.

 

Since Spain has a population of 46.94 million. has reported 277,719 cases and 27,650 deaths.  So that would imply  a total exposure of 2.34 million.  Roughly 8.4 times the number of reported cases and a death rate of 1.1% of the totally exposed population.

 

Now there are also some papers about fully tested populations.  Once of them was a study of the Diamond Princess.  The results of that study estimated 1.3% mortality rate.  There was also a paper from a Chinese village near Wuhan, that was also a fully tested population, that came up with a 1.1% number.

Edited May 18, 2020 by npcl

[yorky]

34 minutes ago, npcl said:

Tell that to Nick Cordero, he lived, barely.

The stats are the stats and not that difficult to find, many feel the actual percentage of elderly in care homes from Covid is actually higher. Individual examples of reactions to Covid are pretty pointless in all honesty.