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The-Inside-Cabin

Orlando Ashford is leaving HAL

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps it is a signal that other, significant changes are coming to the the entire Carnival Corp group of cruise lines.   

 

Or perhaps he did not make his financial goals for three or more quarters in a row prior to covid or his financial performance was well below that of the other cruise line leaders.

 

Who really knows????

Edited by iancal

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1 hour ago, iancal said:

Perhaps it is a signal that other, significant changes are coming to the the entire Carnival Corp group of cruise lines.   

 

Or perhaps he did not make his financial goals for three or more quarters in a row prior to covid or his financial performance was well below that of the other cruise line leaders.

 

Who really knows????

But it was probably not because those doing the firings read these boards.

 

Those who got their wish granted can be happy even though they really cannot take credit for it.

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2 hours ago, iancal said:

Perhaps it is a signal that other, significant changes are coming to the the entire Carnival Corp group of cruise lines.   

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yes, more to come.  A restructuring is in the works from the corporate level.  

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/carnival-corp-signals-layoffs-furloughs-salary-cuts-include-senior-management

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2 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

 

Oh yes, more to come.  A restructuring is in the works from the corporate level.  

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/carnival-corp-signals-layoffs-furloughs-salary-cuts-include-senior-management

Anything we propose (or guess at) at this point is pure speculation. The only thing that can be said for now, is that Change Will Be Coming. What that is and how its executed will probably depend on following major factors. 

 

  1. When can cruising restart for each of the lines under CCL. 
  2. What is the actual cash flow from operations once they resume. 

I'd surely hope there are some serious discussions going on in the board room and executive management levels about the future. Nothing should be off the table, including shuttering lines and selling off ships.

 

Its probably going to be ugly in the travel industry for the next couple of years. Some of the smaller European Airlines are already going under and the future for the majors both here and abroad does not look too good either. 

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All I can say is, is that this Ashford guy better not be getting any type of severance package in any shape or form while we passengers/customers (myself included) are STILL WAITING ON REFUNDS ON CANCELLED CRUISES !!! As a long time Mariner, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth as to why it is taking so long to issue refunds, especially for their repeat customers...they sure are quick to take your money, but when it comes time for a refund, forget about it !!!

I will take that into consideration when/if I EVER cruise with HAL again...

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18 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Beautiful souvenir menus that people took home with them? When I was cleaning out my folks house I came across some from HAL cruises in the 70s and I often see them on eBay. 
 

The last gala night of Prinsendam they gave us the menu.

 

I am one who has collected menus from every dinner for every cruise over the years.  I have boxes and boxes filled with memorabilia from my cruises.  I recall, at least, once, when I told my MDR Steward that I wanted the nightly dinner menu, he said:  "No need."  We will give you a complete set on the last night."  I thought to myself:  Yea, right.  I doubt that will happen.  But, it did!  His assistant and he got a bit extra in the additional gratuity that I was planning on giving him that evening.  

 

For several reasons, my most recent cruises have seen a combination of hard copy "stuff" being taken off the ship by me and digital photos of the "stuff" that I normally would have kept.  I enjoy viewing the pictures.  But, it's not quite the same in not being able to handle "the real deal".

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On 5/14/2020 at 11:03 AM, iancal said:

Perhaps it is a signal that other, significant changes are coming to the the entire Carnival Corp group of cruise lines.   

 

There will be a lot of empty ships berthed for a while, even with their plan to do shorter cruises under the new regulations whatever or whenever they may be cruising again. What if having 3 Presidents for separate cruise lines under the Holland America Group is not cost effective? What if Carnival (and Stein Kruse as CEO of remaining HAG) thought rolling the President position for all three under Jan S and she runs each line. What if they merge our Mariner points for the 3 lines and begin offering "Prinsendam" type itineraries with one or two of the smaller Seabourn ships and split the ports of the Princess and HAL itineraries between them. They can still keep their Carnival "fun ships" separate and run HAG more efficiently with better operations and synergy among them. Just thinking out loud.....

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Posted (edited)

No doubt at the very least Carnival Corp will reduce the spans of control across all of their cruise lines...especially at the senior management level. 

 

I suspect that sweeping changes are coming.  Other than Ashford it appears to be quiet.  To me that indicates that significant restructuring is under way along with new short term goals, long term goals, and marketing strategies.

 

 Nothing will be off the table. I would not assume that the current line up of cruise lines will be the same going forward. I bet rumours are flying around inside Corporate and inside each of the cruise lines. Oh to be a fly on the wall and to have access to the financials of each of the cruise lines!

 

Then again, I could be out to lunch on this.

Edited by iancal

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50 minutes ago, iancal said:

...............................

 

Then again, I could be out to lunch on this.

 

Remember: curbside and takeout service only and watch out for these things

Mini-Standard Flyswatter-With Logo

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With all this speculating, wouldn’t it be funny if we found out that Ashford actually left because he had a better job offer!🤔

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On 5/12/2020 at 1:12 PM, DFD1 said:

Agree there were some "gimicky" events floating around, The Orange Party being one of them. We thought it kind of silly.

 

Kruse seems more suited for the job. Knowing at least a little bit about the cruise industry, which he does, should help navigate these difficult waters.

 

 

We loved the Orange Party!

 

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On 5/13/2020 at 2:07 PM, The-Inside-Cabin said:


Hey! We have ordered that steak! (Wink)

For the whole table. We enjoy the spectacle!

Here is Presty slicing it up!

Adjustments.JPG


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

I also ordered one.  My steak and my wife's filet.

 

DSCN0836.JPG

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On 5/14/2020 at 12:08 PM, ontheweb said:

But it was probably not because those doing the firings read these boards.

 

Those who got their wish granted can be happy even though they really cannot take credit for it.

Spot on, ontheweb - well said.

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Posted (edited)

Who knows how successful Mr Ashford was.  To really understand that we would have to see the financials.  Clearly many people on this board did not like him. 

 

His Carnival Corp masters may have liked what he did to the bottom line and to the balance sheet.  We may never know how successful or unsuccessful he was from a financial perspective.  At the end of the day I would think that those numbers are all that his masters would care about.  That is what determines their bonuses and their how lucrative their stock options  and restricted stock units  are.

Edited by iancal

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1 hour ago, iancal said:

Who knows how successful Mr Ashford was.  To really understand that we would have to see the financials.  Clearly many people on this board did not like him. 

 

His Carnival Corp masters may have liked what he did to the bottom line and to the balance sheet.  We may never know how successful or unsuccessful he was from a financial perspective.  At the end of the day I would think that those numbers are all that his masters would care about.  That is what determines their bonuses and their how lucrative their stock options  and restricted stock units  are.

 

 

To be honest I'm not even sure his performance came into play with this announcement.  Carnival Corp may actually be very pleased with his performance, but when a restructuring is in play, even good people are let go.  I think there is more to come for sure.  

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I don't think radical, big changes are coming, at least not immediately. I think HAL and CCL in general are in Survival Mode and that is their focus for the time being. To make sweeping changes now would be foolhardy, especially when the situation changes almost on a daily basis.
Once they get through the crisis will be the time to begin making changes.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, TriumphGuy said:

I don't think radical, big changes are coming, at least not immediately. I think HAL and CCL in general are in Survival Mode and that is their focus for the time being. To make sweeping changes now would be foolhardy, especially when the situation changes almost on a daily basis.
Once they get through the crisis will be the time to begin making changes.

 

 

The changes have already started, with almost half the workforce of Carnival Corp either laid off or furloughed.  We also have the chiefs of two Carnival Corp brands exiting.  Now is probably the perfect time to make some drastic changes, especially considering that no one predicts a rebound of cruising any time soon.  I don't think taking a wait and see approach is the way to go in this situation.  I agree they are in survival mode, and part of that survival for long term viability probably involves some substantial restructuring.  

Edited by eroller

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On 5/12/2020 at 12:07 PM, wesport said:

He should work for free until the refunds are done.

How much "work" do you think you will get if you don't pay a guy?

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On 5/14/2020 at 11:08 AM, ontheweb said:

But it was probably not because those doing the firings read these boards.

 

Those who got their wish granted can be happy even though they really cannot take credit for it.

How do you know he was fired? I agree possibility but so far none of us have a clue.

 

Maybe he made a decision to leave a “sinking ship” and has another job offer?

 

I’m speculating many company presidents! CEO’s and executive’s may be looking for other employment as company’s fold and declare bankruptcy.

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2 hours ago, aliaschief said:

How do you know he was fired? I agree possibility but so far none of us have a clue.

 

Maybe he made a decision to leave a “sinking ship” and has another job offer?

 

I’m speculating many company presidents! CEO’s and executive’s may be looking for other employment as company’s fold and declare bankruptcy.

I don't think a rational person voluntarily leaves a position in which they are being paid millions of dollars in total compensation in the middle of a recession.

This was  definitely an involuntary separation.

It would be foolish to think otherwise.

Stein Kruse head  of HAL Group was the man who brought Ashford in. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision for him to let him go. Ashford had no cruise industry experience prior to this job. The two men knew each other from Purdue University.

Having been fired myself, I never like to hear of anyone being let go. It can be hard to get over depending on the circumstances.

 

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51 minutes ago, NordicPrince said:

I don't think a rational person voluntarily leaves a position in which they are being paid millions of dollars in total compensation in the middle of a recession.

This was  definitely an involuntary separation.

It would be foolish to think otherwise.

Stein Kruse head  of HAL Group was the man who brought Ashford in. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision for him to let him go. Ashford had no cruise industry experience prior to this job. The two men knew each other from Purdue University.

Having been fired myself, I never like to hear of anyone being let go. It can be hard to get over depending on the circumstances.

I respect and most likely agree with your post. 
 Let me speculate? What if Ashford was released by Holland America because there was no longer going to be a Holland America cruise line?

 

My point was and is; that none of us know really know what’s going on and we’re not sure we want to know. 
 

Some maybe know but at they are not liberty to say..

 

 

 

 

 

 

51 minutes ago, NordicPrince said:

 

 

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19 hours ago, aliaschief said:

 Let me speculate? What if Ashford was released by Holland America because there was no longer going to be a Holland America cruise line?

 

I hope your speculation is incorrect.  May I add my speculation?

 

Other executive "shoes" could yet drop:  Princess Cruises's Jan Schwarz, the gentleman who heads Cunard whose name I don't recall:  Maybe the plan might be for a consolidation of all of the Brands under the Carnival Umbrella--that are not Carnival Cruise Lines itself--to be under the direction of one executive.  Truly a big job, but with proper executive support of "Senior Vice-Presidents" for this and that and the other, Mr. Kruse has the experience to handle the task.  

 

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21 hours ago, NordicPrince said:

Having been fired myself, I never like to hear of anyone being let go. It can be hard to get over depending on the circumstances.

 

I've been fired many times myself.  The first cut is the deepest.

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I’m sure if HA had shown a substantial increase in profits over the course of Ashford’s tenure, he’d still be there. One other element that we haven’t discussed might have figured into his dismissal as well, the guest satisfaction survey. We all know how important that is, because we’re reminded by practically every crew member that there will be hell to pay for them if we don’t check every box as excellent. Maybe those numbers were down.

 

Also, though you certainly can’t blame him for what’s happening worldwide, the events on both the Zandaam and Westerdam were certainly not bright spots on his resume. Maybe he took the fall for letting them continue to sail.

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