Has your attitude to P&O changed?

[No pager thank you]

5 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Evidence?  How about this, just for starters:

 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/05/po-cruises-tells-passengers-owed-thousands-to-wait-three-months-for-cancelled-cruise-refunds/

To add to Harry's point, there is a poll on the Which article, now carrying 473 votes.

 

86pc of respondents say that they have not received a refund, only 5pc have.  The remainder are non P&O guests or not asking for a refund etc.  Admittedly this is a bit of a voodoo poll - you are more likely to read and vote if you are annoyed, but that is pretty damning on P&O all the same.

 

As is the vignette of the customer being shouted at down the phone with 90 days being quoted - making them as bad as MSC and CMV on that particular metric, should that become true.

[DamianG]

Thanks to everyone on here sharing their experience of trying to get a refund I cancelled our July cruise booking just prior to the final payment date. The cruise was then cancelled by P&O 4 days after the final payment due date. I appreciate that timings would be tricky for them, and it was probably a coincidence, but it still felt to me that they were going to happily take my money when they were already planning not to sail.

 

I therefore have a FCC for the (2020 cancelled cruise) deposit amount and the simple fact is that as much as I am annoyed at the antics of P&O throughout this time I will still be looking to use that (FCC) to book a cruise for 2022. We already have a 2021 cruise booked and if cruising is safe at that time we intend to be on-board.

 

We only go on one cruise a year in the long school summer holidays. For the last 5 years I've priced up sailings from different cruise lines and only P&O is within our budget. Maybe it is "dumbed down", "not what it used to be..." etc. (comments I wholeheartedly agree with) but the fact is we want to go on a cruise at least once a year, we like P&O and it is within our budget.

 

I think people have short memories and they will have little problem filling the ships (to whatever capacity they operate on) during the main school holidays. Where they may struggle (in my opinion) is in the "off-peak" times where their ships are filled with working couples and retirees. I do think that they could lose some loyal customers (who can afford to look elsewhere) at those times, and will end up offering some incredibly cheap deals as a result.

[ThomasBarrow]

Day 58 here. Nothing.  Wondering if small claims Court is the way to go if nothing by day 60. 

 

 

[KnowTheScore]

My attitude to P&O hasn't changed and remains a negative one.

 

I had become utterly sick of the relentless cuts and reduction in . . .  well just about everything that Carnival have been making since they acquired P&O well before the COVID crisis.   Now, having witnessed the diabolical debacle of Carnival's management of the Diamond Princess and other ships I'd be fearful to step on any Carnival ship.

 

I'm also not the least bit of the same mind as those who blindly think a vaccine is going to be the saviour of all.  Vaccines take years and years to properly test to be sure they are safe.   The US Vaccine Injury Programme has already paid out over $4 billion in compensation to victims over the past few years.  Anyone claiming they have suddenly rushed out and fast tracked a vaccine will for me personally be treated with a very very long barge pole.  Each to their own of course.

 

I also see once again, that Carnival/P&O are making the same old blunder trying to pander to a younger market to get more bums in cabins and achieve more on-board revenue.   I noted quite wryly during the last financial recession of 2008/9 that what happened is that the youngsters become very strapped for cash, struggle to pay their mortgage and have to reel back and penny pinch.   The older traditional loyal cruising clientele on the other hand said "financial crisis? What financial crisis?"  as their pension payments were simply coming in like regular clockwork.   Very little if any changes for them.    And thus we saw that P&O and other cruise lines had in fact bitten the hand that fed them by largely ignoring that loyal customer base and making endless changes to service, quality, entertainment and all the rest to pander to a younger and more vibrant customer base.

 

Now here we are again in another global crisis.  You can even ignore the problems related to the virus and risks of catching it aboard.  What we have again is another financial recession and one that is predicted to be 3-4 times worse than that of 2008.

So again, who are really going to be the people with the loose cash to go on a cruise?   Answer, it remains the older, solid bread and butter customer base that has always been there but which the cruise line has been steadily annoying for years.

 

Will Carnival/P&O ever learn this lesson?

 

You can not afford to alienate that loyal solid customer base no matter how much you want to attract the raving "have it large" youngsters.  The next few years are going to be extremely difficult for P&O.   The youngsters they wanted are simply not going to cruise.  They will be financially strapped via job losses, employment uncertainty, massive price rises across the board, inflation and all the austerity we will see going forward.   The older traditional cruisers will still have their money, still be wanting to get out there and frankly will have the ultimate power to vote with their feet. 

 

My choice will be to stay clear of P&O and indeed other Carnival lines completely until and unless they cease the silly cutbacks and start gearing cruises around that loyal older customer base again.    I will be heading to Celebrity and others.

 

That said I won't be taking any cruise at all until the cruise industry (or any given cruise line) confirms in writing to me what protocols they would use if/when a passenger or crew member presents with COVID-19 on-board.   If the protocol remains to quarantine every single passenger then I'll say "so long and thanks for all the fish" to cruising completely.   Absolutely no way, no how that I will submit to being treated like cattle fodder like that.  Unacceptable.

 

The industry imo is still completely in turmoil as I don't believe it has even now, resolved that fundamental issue of the protocols that would have to be followed when someone gets Coronavirus on-board.  They are behoven to higher powers in this respect, the same powers that stopped the ships sailing in the first place. 

 

My other worry is that if they were already making so many cutbacks before Coronavirus hit us, then now they have lost $billions in revenue, what will the service and quality be like in the next few years as they try to rake it all back ?!!!!

 

.

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by KnowTheScore

[Britboys]

I don't think the way P&O have dealt with this has really changed my view of the company. Like almost everyone else, I completely agree that they have not dealt with it well at all. I do however believe that they have been no worse than many other travel companies  - which I know is no excuse.

Having cruised with P&O on and off for 23 years, I am of course very aware how much things have changed. I choose to only really cruise on Aurora and Arcadia and will be happy to continue doing so when it suits me. How long that will be I don't know. I currently have 2 cruises booked with them - in October this year and late January next year. I have written off the October one and will make a decision as to whether to transfer the deposit on that when it is closer to paying the full balance. Next year's balance is not payable until the end of October, so I will see how things are looking then.

As much as I still feel loyalty to P&O, I am also enjoying other lines. Because I choose to cruise with a more traditional experience on a smaller ship, I am happy to sail with CMV and Fred Olsen. None of us know how the future of cruising will pan out yet - or indeed what the path of Covid-19 will be. I will cruise again when it feels safe to me.

Because of my choices and cruising budget, my options are getting more limited. My main concern with P&O is that ultimately they could be more or less forced to 'pension off' Aurora as she is one of the more expensive ships for them to run (Oceana is not a favourite and I do not think she will be around much longer anyway).

Interesting times ahead...

[Mysticalmother]

3 hours ago, Selbourne said:

You sound almost exactly like us regarding what you enjoy and what you don’t. If you ever do a Northern Lights cruise again I can thoroughly recommend a balcony. Like you we always book one, not for sunbathing, but for the views. We found that the scenery on the Northern Lights cruise, passing the Lofoten Islands, cruising down the narrow Alta Fjord accompanied by pilot whales and in and out of the other ports was absolutely spectacular and all from the warmth and comfort of our sofa or bed, rather than fighting for the limited good indoor viewing areas. We had spectacular views of the Northern Lights for several days (none at all the second time we did the cruise!) but one of the best views happened to be in the early hours of the morning when we heard a lot of commotion and woke up to see the classic shimmering greenish curtains from the warmth and comfort of our bed (as we usually sleep with the curtains open). We heard loads of people during the cruise commenting that they hadn’t bothered with a balcony cabin as it was a cold weather cruise, but we found it to be even more beneficial than almost any other cruise we had been on! 

Hi Selborne

Well we certainly want to do the Northern Lights cruise again some time....they were switched off when we went in 2018! And, yes, I would definitely have a balcony next time...but at least we did have a nice large window cabin, so I know what you mean about the views. At least we still saw a lot of the scenery.....in between the snow showers!.

[Josy1953]

4 minutes ago, Britboys said:

I don't think the way P&O have dealt with this has really changed my view of the company. Like almost everyone else, I completely agree that they have not dealt with it well at all. I do however believe that they have been no worse than many other travel companies  - which I know is no excuse.

Having cruised with P&O on and off for 23 years, I am of course very aware how much things have changed. I choose to only really cruise on Aurora and Arcadia and will be happy to continue doing so when it suits me. How long that will be I don't know. I currently have 2 cruises booked with them - in October this year and late January next year. I have written off the October one and will make a decision as to whether to transfer the deposit on that when it is closer to paying the full balance. Next year's balance is not payable until the end of October, so I will see how things are looking then.

As much as I still feel loyalty to P&O, I am also enjoying other lines. Because I choose to cruise with a more traditional experience on a smaller ship, I am happy to sail with CMV and Fred Olsen. None of us know how the future of cruising will pan out yet - or indeed what the path of Covid-19 will be. I will cruise again when it feels safe to me.

Because of my choices and cruising budget, my options are getting more limited. My main concern with P&O is that ultimately they could be more or less forced to 'pension off' Aurora as she is one of the more expensive ships for them to run (Oceana is not a favourite and I do not think she will be around much longer anyway).

Interesting times ahead...

I truly hope that you are wrong about Aurora, we love her.  As things are at the moment it is unlikely that we will cruise again and it is even less likely that we will go with P&O if we do cruise again.  

[KnowTheScore]

Britboys: "My main concern with P&O is that ultimately they could be more or less forced to 'pension off' Aurora as she is one of the more expensive ships for them to run (Oceana is not a favourite and I do not think she will be around much longer anyway).

Interesting times ahead..."

 

Again if they did that they would be massively biting the hand that feeds them.  It would be a catastrophic move.  They already ditched Oriana a firm favourite amongst traditional cruisers.   I really think it's time for them to rethink their entire strategy.  Decide what they want to be instead of trying to be all things to all people which is just a complete mess and always has been.

 

They should really have split the brand and properly created a cruise line for the younger generation and left P&O for the older traditionalists.   Then there would be no confusion and people would know what to expect and how to behave.  Bring back Ocean Village if they must, I don't really care just as long as they stop diluting the brand and provide a cruise service that the traditional cruisers want and will use on the types of ships that they love.

 

The strategy of maximising profits by making the fleet one full of 5000+ pax mega ships is clearly untenable now.  Such ships are never imo going to be able to provide safe environments in a COVID-19 type world.   Get back to traditional ships, accept less profits, deliver better service and gain a stronger customer base.

 

.

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

Evidence?  How about this, just for starters:

 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/05/po-cruises-tells-passengers-owed-thousands-to-wait-three-months-for-cancelled-cruise-refunds/

 

Do you have any evidence to justify your: "Is that true or did you hear it on the BBC?"

Or the Brussels jibe?  Factual reporting may not always seem factual when you're used to seeing your news filtered through a blue lens.

Thanks for sharing the link to the Which? article. I now feel even more disappointed with P&O and Paul Ludlow in particular, as it is now patently obvious that the only reason that he issued his email yesterday was because they had been asked for comment by Which? and they knew that an adverse piece of PR was coming. The fact that Which? is making it very easy, with links etc, for customers to make a claim against P&O, will also have panicked them. Fascinating that of the many hundreds of people responding to their survey, only 5% have received refunds and 86% are still waiting (the rest weren’t customers). That seems to fit with the stats on here and, from what I am told, the folk on other social media channels. Those who are dismissing the fact that P&O has deliberately held on to customers cash to shore up their cash flow as wild speculation or conspiracy theories are, I am sorry to say, displaying an ignorance of how businesses in crisis can operate. Perhaps naively, I had expected better of P&O. 

[Solent Richard]

19 hours ago, No pager thank you said:

I agree that it is a defendable position to be satisfied with the latest explanation for the delay from P&O, as much as it is to level your investment in to the issue of any refund due based on the extent to which you need the money returned.  Personally I am not, but this is not to say that I don't see this opposing viewpoint; there are indeed hundreds of likes on the P&O fan club posts on FB as one example.

 

I also agree that the majority of customers did allow the extension from the 14 days, up to and including 45 days without sentiment changing.  Reviewing the FB page closely as an example, the volume and anger within the comments has built from that point, not helped by the posts about cocktails and quizzes which appear, at least to some, to be in poor taste.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A good measured post. And of course there are larger communities on facebook where, generally, they are 'real' people as opposed to screen names.

 

I Admin a number of fb groups and, in particular,  three feature Cunard. You'd really have to spend time searching for any 'moans' over this subject.

[Solent Richard]

19 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Evidence?  How about this, just for starters:

 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/05/po-cruises-tells-passengers-owed-thousands-to-wait-three-months-for-cancelled-cruise-refunds/

 

Do you have any evidence to justify your: "Is that true or did you hear it on the BBC?"

Or the Brussels jibe?  Factual reporting may not always seem factual when you're used to seeing your news filtered through a blue lens.

 

Good morning Harry.

 

I've given you an up-tick purely on the basis I found your comment so amusing.

 

And the basis of my mirth? Well it has to be a quote from 'Which' - the Liberal consumer's answer to The Sun.

 

 

[Britboys]

19 hours ago, Josy1953 said:

I truly hope that you are wrong about Aurora, we love her.  As things are at the moment it is unlikely that we will cruise again and it is even less likely that we will go with P&O if we do cruise again.  

I too hope I am wrong. She is my clear favourite now the wonderful Oriana is no more 😞

[Britboys]

19 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

Britboys: "My main concern with P&O is that ultimately they could be more or less forced to 'pension off' Aurora as she is one of the more expensive ships for them to run (Oceana is not a favourite and I do not think she will be around much longer anyway).

Interesting times ahead..."

 

Again if they did that they would be massively biting the hand that feeds them.  It would be a catastrophic move.  They already ditched Oriana a firm favourite amongst traditional cruisers.   I really think it's time for them to rethink their entire strategy.  Decide what they want to be instead of trying to be all things to all people which is just a complete mess and always has been.

 

They should really have split the brand and properly created a cruise line for the younger generation and left P&O for the older traditionalists.   Then there would be no confusion and people would know what to expect and how to behave.  Bring back Ocean Village if they must, I don't really care just as long as they stop diluting the brand and provide a cruise service that the traditional cruisers want and will use on the types of ships that they love.

 

The strategy of maximising profits by making the fleet one full of 5000+ pax mega ships is clearly untenable now.  Such ships are never imo going to be able to provide safe environments in a COVID-19 type world.   Get back to traditional ships, accept less profits, deliver better service and gain a stronger customer base.

 

.

I do agree with you that they should have split the brands and that is something that I suggested several years ago. I however felt that 2 brands could happily exist side by side as P&O, with the distinction being P&O Classic and P&O Contemporary. At the current time however, with the major financial challenge presented by this crisis, I don't think it possible.

I sincerely hope that this does not see the end of Aurora but I do think it will depend on how long travel/cruise restrictions are in place. Aurora - and to a degree Oceana - are the eldest ships in the fleet and the most expensive to run. Sailing these ships at up to half capacity is unlikely to be viable unless fares were increased to such a degree that many pax would choose not to sail. The balance sheet is king at the moment and the longer the restrictions continue, the more likely P&O/Carnival will need to consider tough action.

P&O are now in a difficult place, having gone (or been led) down a path of value-for-money cruising. They are already losing traditional pax to CMV, Fred Olsen and Saga. Also, in general terms, the traditional cruiser is a dying breed but has more competition than when P&O had the monopoly.

Sadly (IMHO) Iona - being far more economical and with far more onboard revenue centres to bring in many more extras, is likely to be 'the darling' of the fleet as far as senior management is concerned. She is likely to be far easier to run with reduced capacity on board.

[Denarius]

Re splitting the brand to target different markets. Royal Caribbean have done this succesfully with Royal Caribbean, Celebrity and Azamara; Norwegian Cruise lines with NCL, Oceania and Regent. Both follow the same pattern.  Main brands aimed at the mass market plus sub brands offering smaller ships, higher standards, less formality (no black tie) and of course higher prices. P&O could have gone down the same route but chose instead to have adult only ships aimed at the same market as their family ships; people who would have sailed on them but prefer an adult only enviroment. Possibly this is because Carnival as a group set their sights firmly on the mass market - although they still own Seabourn. But if the mass market collapses but the well heeled continue to cruise they could find themselves high and dry.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Denarius

[No pager thank you]

8 hours ago, Britboys said:

I too hope I am wrong. She is my clear favourite now the wonderful Oriana is no more 😞

Same here, Aurora is my favourite.

 

But in the cut and thrust of any new reduced passenger market, she'll struggle to survive. 

 

Arcadia might do, as I am conscious of the practical constraint around their tonnage making some of the smaller ports easier to navigate.  However you can make the argument the other way round easily.

 

Strategy wise, pre-virus it was Oriana out, and two times Iona in.  Would have to be a radical volte-face from the current talent in Carnival House.

[No pager thank you]

11 minutes ago, Denarius said:

Possibly this is because Carnival as a group set their sights firmly on the mass market - although they still own Seabourn. But if the mass market collapses but the well heeled continue to cruise they could find themselves high and dry.

As an extension, is Carnival strategy to push the traditionalists on to Seabourn, or at least a Seabourn pricing structure, for exclusivity, that special touch?

 

That may be beyond the height of the heel of some of the traditionalists; some are P&O through and through, others would have upscaled though years ago.

[terrierjohn]

12 minutes ago, Denarius said:

Re splitting the brand to target different markets. Royal Caribbean have done this succesfully with Royal Caribbean, Celebrity and Azamara; Norwegian Cruise lines with NCL, Oceania and Regent. Both follow the same pattern.  Main brands aimed at the mass market plus sub brands offering smaller ships, higher standards, less formality (no black tie) and of course higher prices. P&O could have gone down the same route but chose instead to have adult only ships aimed at the same market as their family ships; people who would have sailed on them but prefer an adult only enviroment. Possibly this is because Carnival as a group set their sights firmly on the mass market - although they still own Seabourn. But if the mass market collapses but the well heeled continue to cruise they could find themselves high and dry.

But P&O is only a sub brand of Carnival, they already have Seaborne for the really wealthy, Cunard for those who think are upper crust, Holland America for the better off middle class, Aida for wealthy Germans, and Costa for out of work Neapolitans  and then Princess, Carnival and P&O for the blue collar crowd.

But you can put your own spin on the various brands to suit your own views.

[Selbourne]

As the discussion has moved to alternative cruise operators, can I ask a question of those who have experience of other cruise lines?

 

We have only ever cruised with P&O, have been on all their ships and although only in our 50’s we see ourselves as ‘traditional’ cruisers who don’t like the direction that P&O is going in, so are open to alternatives, preferably more upmarket and certainly not American ‘resort’ ships full of theme parks and kids. Other than Cunard Grill Class, which ‘premium’ operators offer round trip ex-UK cruises? Flying isn’t an option for us. Good accessible (disabled) cabins and facilities are crucial, as are 100% non-smoking balconies. We are foodies so great restaurants are also a must. I’m hearing good things about Saga’s new ships but my wife has a mind block that we aren't old enough for a Saga holiday yet 😂. So, if we take the plunge and desert P&O, given our likes and dislikes, which operator, offering round trip ex-UK cruises would best fit the bill?

[NoFlyGuy]

We will not be deserting P&O for holidays.

If Carnival UK were the only travel company taking ages to refund customers I might think otherwise.

As is obvious by my username we don't fly, that rules out a whole host of cruise operators.

We like the option to cruise year round, another bunch out of the equation although we could use some during the summer eg RCI and we  have done so in the past.

We like freedom/my time dining so that now precludes Fred and CMV and also Cunard unless you pay a huge premium.

Price, P&O may not be the greatest offering but even if all the above was satisfied we couldn't justify paying £300 to £400 pppn.

How much better can the food or entertainment be to justify those prices?

Luckily we all have the choice, each to their own.

[bourdon]

Lots of keyboard warriors responding to this post, and like every situation on social media everyone is suddenly a legal expert.  Some of the accusations and claims against Carnival written on this post are defamatory, and let the investigation decide.  Personally I will be keeping my booking with P&O, I usually sail with Cunard, but want to give them a try.  I have had nothing but really helpful staff assist when I phone them, and people clearly have absolutely no respect for how difficult their job must be, they don't personally make the decisions about when refunds are paid and the processes involved.

 

The choice is simple if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to sail with P&O, but there will be plenty who will so I am sure you won't be missed.

[ThomasBarrow]

Wrong thread

Edited May 16, 2020 by ThomasBarrow
Posted on wrong thread

[AndyMichelle]

9 hours ago, bourdon said:

Lots of keyboard warriors responding to this post, and like every situation on social media everyone is suddenly a legal expert.  Some of the accusations and claims against Carnival written on this post are defamatory, and let the investigation decide.  Personally I will be keeping my booking with P&O, I usually sail with Cunard, but want to give them a try.  I have had nothing but really helpful staff assist when I phone them, and people clearly have absolutely no respect for how difficult their job must be, they don't personally make the decisions about when refunds are paid and the processes involved.

 

The choice is simple if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to sail with P&O, but there will be plenty who will so I am sure you won't be missed.

The irony is, the ones who were more forceful seemed to get their refunds first... 

I have sort of given up chasing as I won't be rude and am very conscious that the person on the phone is following instructions, but surely, when you are blatantly lied to and fobbed off, we must be allowed to get frustrated... 

Despite all this, the reason we travelled with P&O was because of the offering and price. 

Customer service has never been their strong point, so not sure why we are surprised. 

The only thing that may change for us is we might do less cruises at higher prices, so will open our eyes a bit more. 

But, more than likely, see you in the Crows Nest.. 

Andy 

 

[janny444]

Hi...I have been " lurking" in the background reading all the comments...especially about the thread  concerning refunds. I should have been on the same cruise as Andy....Britannia...19th April and no refund received as yet

The question asked by the OP is " has my attitude changed towards P&O"....the answer is no it hasn't...they are behaving exactly as the have done before....stonewalling....ignoring...." you will do it my way and if you don't....tough...." attitude.....

When I have mentioned on CC about  P&O's dismal approach to " customer service" on many occasions I have had to dive for cover that I dare say something negative about P&O.

I have cruised with different cruise lines so I am aware of other cruise lines customer service and I am sorry to say P&O are at the bottom of the list.

 

[AndyMichelle]

4 minutes ago, janny444 said:

Hi...I have been " lurking" in the background reading all the comments...especially about the thread  concerning refunds. I should have been on the same cruise as Andy....Britannia...19th April and no refund received as yet

The question asked by the OP is " has my attitude changed towards P&O"....the answer is no it hasn't...they are behaving exactly as the have done before....stonewalling....ignoring...." you will do it my way and if you don't....tough...." attitude.....

When I have mentioned on CC about  P&O's dismal approach to " customer service" on many occasions I have had to dive for cover that I dare say something negative about P&O.

I have cruised with different cruise lines so I am aware of other cruise lines customer service and I am sorry to say P&O are at the bottom of the list.

 

I tend to defend P&O's offering as being good value for money and suiting us, but, like most on here, am fully aware of their attitude to customer service, and was long before the refund scenario. 

Why did we expect any different now? 

Andy 

 

 

[NewWestwardbound]

12 hours ago, Selbourne said:

As the discussion has moved to alternative cruise operators, can I ask a question of those who have experience of other cruise lines?

 

We have only ever cruised with P&O, have been on all their ships and although only in our 50’s we see ourselves as ‘traditional’ cruisers who don’t like the direction that P&O is going in, so are open to alternatives, preferably more upmarket and certainly not American ‘resort’ ships full of theme parks and kids. Other than Cunard Grill Class, which ‘premium’ operators offer round trip ex-UK cruises? Flying isn’t an option for us. Good accessible (disabled) cabins and facilities are crucial, as are 100% non-smoking balconies. We are foodies so great restaurants are also a must. I’m hearing good things about Saga’s new ships but my wife has a mind block that we aren't old enough for a Saga holiday yet 😂. So, if we take the plunge and desert P&O, given our likes and dislikes, which operator, offering round trip ex-UK cruises would best fit the bill?

Perhaps Celebrity?