Should executive salaries be suspended until Princess is able to refund her loyal passengers

[npcl]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Those executives primary responsibility is to the shareholders not the customer.  Do the car manufacturers or real estate developers show any responsibility for the consumer's wallet?  I don't think so, corporations have the attitude that if you can't afford their product, move along.  That said, I don't think any of the cruise lines voluntarily suspended operations so they could hang onto pre-payments.  I'm sure they all would rather be sailing with happy customers but that's not in the cards right now.  Are the banks and localities required to refund mortgage payments and taxes on second homes that governments prohibit travel to?  These are tough times for vendors and consumers as well.

If you order a car from a manufacturer and they fail to deliver they certainly are responsible for refunding the money.  In the case of such failure to deliver many states has limits on the time frame to refund as well.

 

As far as banks they have loaned the buyer money for which the property is held as collateral.  The loan still exists so the bank is in fact delivering its service.

 

Bottom line is the deposits were collected as payment for a service to be performed, under a set of legal terms and conditions.  As such under both Federal and US state law they are obligated to return those funds.

 

The biggest problem is that there are not any defined limits (unlike a vehicle purchase) that defines how long they have to return the funds.

 

As a one time Louisiana governor was said it may not be ethical, but its not illegal.

 

I encourage everyone that is owed money, that has lived up to their side of the terms to dispute using their credit card, and to notify both their state attorney general as well as their local representative.  Maybe we just might get the refund timing loophole fixed to help someone else in the future.

 

CCL certainly lists guests as being one of the key stakeholders under corporate governance

 

We are committed to governance policies and practices that ensure shareholder and other stakeholder interests are represented in a thoughtful and independent manner. Sound principles of corporate governance are critical to obtaining and retaining the trust of investors. They are also vital in securing respect from other key stakeholders and interested parties -- including employees, our guests, suppliers, the communities in which we conduct business, government officials and the public at large.

Edited May 17, 2020 by npcl

[sfaaa]

On 5/16/2020 at 12:54 PM, Loreni said:

It would generate some much needed goodwill.  These executives are in a much better position to personally get through the coronavirus than passengers who may need their money for rent or mortgage payments.  

Goodwill? Let's be serious. Would you be willing to work for free if your employer is in a cash crunch?

[npcl]

10 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

Goodwill? Let's be serious. Would you be willing to work for free if your employer is in a cash crunch?

Most are not senior executives in a major corporation whose future is somewhat dependent upon how their customers view the company.  People who have made millions in their current position and will make millions more in the future if their companies survive.

 

Certainly a number of execs at other companies have cut or eliminated their own salaries

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2020/03/30/ceos-are-cutting-their-own-salaries-in-response-to-the-coronavirus/#344fe963e913

[jagoffee]

What a terrible idea.  
 

Perhaps a pay cut or a suspension of bonuses, which is probably already being done. 

[Lucky TGO]

That’s a great idea but you know it’s never going to happen.

Tony

[skynight]

"Should executive salaries be suspended until Princess is able to refund her loyal passengers" Elimination of a few dozen higher salaries will do little to help the massive debt of which customer refunds are a small part. The primary focus of the corporation is to keep the company liquid for a few years. It is the most senior staff that have this responsibility.

Compensation of all staff, including the most senior management is an operational decision for the corporation in good times and like now bad. The Corporation has already announced reductions in compensation across the board, including its most senior staff. If the corporation survives it is these individuals who will pull it through, generate new income, welcome old and new customers and provide 100 thousand+ jobs. With new income debt can be repaid, including customer refunds.

The hard reality is that customers will just have to wait for refunds which may be provided sooner, later or possibly never if the company goes out of business.

[13cheermom]

Well at the hospitals that both my daughters work at, they have taken pay decreases across the board, starting from the CEO and   downward.  If hospitals can afford to do this to help their overall financial situation, then a cruise line should be able to do the same.  To be honest my daughters risk their health with exposure  each and everyday to work on the front line, and while they might get paid well to do that job, they still have taken cuts and reduced hours to make the hospital work as a whole.  The cruise line as I see it doesn't do anything to help with healthcare in the grand scheme of things so should gladly give up some up of those highly paid upper management salaries.  

[iancal]

Really, would you like your salary suspended???

 

I suspect that Princess senior folks are busier than ever.  Refunds, litigation, financing, layoffs, revised short and long term plans.

Edited May 20, 2020 by iancal

[1emerald1]

What other people make is none of my business, however I would agree with salary freezes, not reductions, and suspension of bonuses until cruising resumes.

[john watson]

If people were loyal passengers they would simply re-book an alternative cruise thus minimising any financial impact to the said company.  What companies including cruise lines need right now is for people to stay calm and ride out the storm and not overstress the cash flow situation. The management will be looking at how each company may best survive and whatever money you have invested in your cruise/s was affordable when you booked.

 

Regards John

[caribill]

10 hours ago, john watson said:

If people were loyal passengers they would simply re-book an alternative cruise thus minimising any financial impact to the said company. 

 

Many would like to take the same itinerary that was for the cancelled cruise.

 

RCI allows you to move a booking to the same itinerary at the same price you had for the cancelled cruise.

 

Princess does not have that program, and many are finding that the same cruise next year is priced significantly higher. Even the bonus FCC does not cover the increase in pricing in many cases.

[13cheermom]

Well my husband works for a major utility company that spreads from Indiana all the way to Florida, and they are  now making cuts in all levels because of the lack of revenue because of the current situation.  If this particular corporation is taking these measures then Carnival Corporation (Princess & Carnival) should be doing the same.  Last time I checked the CEO wasn't processing refunds (which they have the dropped the ball on) for all of hard-working individuals.  Still waiting on over $10K worth of refunds for an Alaskan bucket-list cruise that now will only be remembered as a nightmare of a non-existent vacation for us.  Continue to get calls from a rep every 2 weeks to tell us to be patient and wait (she needs to be helping with the refunding process instead of calling me).  I just want to have this all settled and taken care of so we can move on from here, after still waiting at the 75 day mark now. 🥵

[donaldsc]

On 5/16/2020 at 3:26 PM, npcl said:

Actually having been an executive on a fortune 500 company, I would say that senior executives taking cuts, or even declining compensation  during periods of extreme duress in the companies they are heading, is far more the rule, at least as far as the good executive and companies go.

 

Actually you are wrong they do have an obligation to look out for and make sure that they operate ethically and efficiently when it comes to their financial dealing with customers, both as a group and as individuals.

 

Their salary won't solve the problem, but their willingness to own the problem would go a long way to restoring credibility for their companies.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-a-list-of-ce-os-taking-pay-cuts-amidst-the-coronavirus-crisis-171206258.html

 

Since when have cruise lines ever behaved ethically?

 

DON

[skynight]

3 hours ago, 13cheermom said:

Well my husband works for a major utility company that spreads from Indiana all the way to Florida, and they are  now making cuts in all levels because of the lack of revenue because of the current situation.  If this particular corporation is taking these measures then Carnival Corporation (Princess & Carnival) should be doing the same.   🥵

Actually Carnival is making cuts at all levels. Announced May 14th in part:

"To further strengthen liquidity, Carnival Corporation and its brands are announcing a combination of layoffs, furloughs, reduced work weeks and salary reductions across the company, including senior management."

[pms4104]

On 5/16/2020 at 2:54 PM, Loreni said:

It would generate some much needed goodwill.  These executives are in a much better position to personally get through the coronavirus than passengers who may need their money for rent or mortgage payments.  

We don't really know what's going on in anyone else's life ... nor do we know the status of their personal finances ... appearances can be deceiving

[caribill]

6 hours ago, pms4104 said:

We don't really know what's going on in anyone else's life ... nor do we know the status of their personal finances ... appearances can be deceiving

 

Arnold Donald, President and CEO of Carnival Corp received $1,500,000 in salary for 2019 and a total of $11,149,514 including non-salary compensation. (Much of that was in CCL Corp stock which is now lower in value than when granted.)

 

Stein Kruse, Group CEO of Holland America Group (which includes Princess) received $925,000 in salary for 2019 and a total of $3,772,421 including non salary compensation. (Much of that was in CCL Corp stock which is now lower in value than when granted.)

 

But, you are correct, we do not know the status of their personal finances.

[sfaaa]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Arnold Donald, President and CEO of Carnival Corp received $1,500,000 in salary for 2019 and a total of $11,149,514 including non-salary compensation. (Much of that was in CCL Corp stock which is now lower in value than when granted.)

 

Stein Kruse, Group CEO of Holland America Group (which includes Princess) received $925,000 in salary for 2019 and a total of $3,772,421 including non salary compensation. (Much of that was in CCL Corp stock which is now lower in value than when granted.)

 

But, you are correct, we do not know the status of their personal finances.

But this doesn't tell you how much debt they owe the bank or creditors. Rich people have expensive hobbies, like to live a high life, own many cool toys and can make bad investments or decisions just like others. They may make more but they also spend a lot more, sometimes to the point they have to declare bankruptcy to get out of personal debt.

[hobbyfarmer2]

Interesting question.

 

Does suspending someone's salary act as a motivator or demotivator?

 

Personally, I would just leave.  Hard to keep a good attitude when you are working for nothing and I like to have a good attitude about everything I do.

[Ride-The-Waves]

"These executives are in a much better position to personally get through the coronavirus than passengers who may need their money for rent or mortgage payments."  

 

OP is right on this point.  However, offer that one should  not be cruising if that money is needed "for rent of mortgage payments."

 

Corporate leadership has an obligation only to shareholders to enhance the company's bottom line and share value.  That is their legal obligation.  Beyond that they will, of course, make efforts to keep people returning to their product by offering incentives and perks (all which are added to the cost of the product).  However, to claim corporate leadership is interested in the financial well being of their customers is fallacious.

[Coral]

On 6/9/2020 at 2:08 PM, hobbyfarmer2 said:

Interesting question.

 

Does suspending someone's salary act as a motivator or demotivator?

 

Personally, I would just leave.  Hard to keep a good attitude when you are working for nothing and I like to have a good attitude about everything I do.

In the US -  a lot of individuals have had to take a pay cut in order to keep their jobs. Part of today's economy.

[hobbyfarmer2]

2 hours ago, Coral said:

In the US -  a lot of individuals have had to take a pay cut in order to keep their jobs. Part of today's economy.

Understood, but not quite the same as working for zero monetary compensation.