Delta is retiring some planes.

[rkacruiser]

I read today that Delta is retiring their 777, the MD-88, and the MD-90 planes.  I am sorry to learn that about the 777 because I have found it to be a very comfortable plane.  Since their DAY-ATL service has used the MD-88 and MD-90 planes in the past, I wonder what equipment they will now assign to that route.  I am afraid it will be another small jet.   I may be incorrect, but I think the MD planes were the only larger jet that was providing service for DAY any more.   

[FlyerTalker]

The 777 was a small sub-fleet, with only 18 airframes.  DL has decided that their future long-haul fleet will be a mix of the A330, both in classic and NEO versions, along with the A350 which they deem their fleet's flagship.  767s will be the next long-haul to be retired - AA has announced that for their 767s.  In general, there has been much positive buzz on the A350, both from passengers and from the operation side.  In business, the Delta One Suites is a huge leap up from the old 777 herringbone design.

 

The MadDogs were always going to be leaving the fleet -- this shutdown just accelerated the process.  Even the 90s are fairly long in the tooth.  I would expect that you would get replacement in the form of the A220 (formerly known as the Bombardier C-Series), which has also been getting passenger raves.  Some frequencies might even get 737 service.

[CruiserBruce]

So is American, so is United.

[rkacruiser]

23 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

I would expect that you would get replacement in the form of the A220 (formerly known as the Bombardier C-Series), which has also been getting passenger raves

 

Looking at information about this plane, it appears to be a decent replacement for the service that I expect DAY will experience.  

[ericosmith]

I really hate to see the 2/3 seating go.  The more A220s as replacements for the MadDogs the better.

[em-sk]

On 5/18/2020 at 8:18 PM, ericosmith said:

I really hate to see the 2/3 seating go.  The more A220s as replacements for the MadDogs the better.

 

The A220 are a step up from the MadDogs.   They are the most advanced single aisle aircraft on the market with bigger windows, enough overhead space for everyone to have a full compliant of carry on baggage.  

[SelectSys]

20 hours ago, em-sk said:

 

The A220 are a step up from the MadDogs...

 

I used to fly the MD 80 every week and I really don't miss seeing them go.  I remember then cruising a bit slower - I think - than other aircraft.  This cruising speed resulted in  some horrendously long flights from ORD to SAN during the winter going against the wind.  Perhaps those winter flights simply jade my memory of the aircraft.

[zdcatc12]

1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

 

I used to fly the MD 80 every week and I really don't miss seeing them go.  I remember then cruising a bit slower - I think - than other aircraft.  This cruising speed resulted in  some horrendously long flights from ORD to SAN during the winter going against the wind.  Perhaps those winter flights simply jade my memory of the aircraft.

No slower at altitude by much, if any, compared to other airliners. It was probably due to a 200-300 knot headwind because of the time of year it was, so it would have been slower on any jet. Most airliners fly between Mach .76 and .78 with a few, e.g. 747 around .80 or .81. Of course, the max ceiling on a MD is FL370 as opposed to FL430 or FL450 like some newer ones, so they could not fly as high either.

[FlyerTalker]

22 hours ago, em-sk said:

The A220 are a step up from the MadDogs.   They are the most advanced single aisle aircraft on the market with bigger windows, enough overhead space for everyone to have a full compliant of carry on baggage.  

 

 

Today, there was a major fire in the Bombardier facility in Belfast, where the A220 wings are assembled.  Who knows what that means for the long-term future for the program.

[em-sk]

On 5/24/2020 at 7:30 PM, FlyerTalker said:

 

 

Today, there was a major fire in the Bombardier facility in Belfast, where the A220 wings are assembled.  Who knows what that means for the long-term future for the program.

 

Sounds like there will be no impact.  

 

https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospace/bombardier-expects-minimal-impact-from-belfast-plant-fire/138516.article

 

I find it weird  the wings are made in Northern Ireland and then shipped to Montreal to be connected to the rest of the aircraft. 

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, em-sk said:

I find it weird  the wings are made in Northern Ireland and then shipped to Montreal to be connected to the rest of the aircraft. 

 

If you want to see a real jigsaw puzzle plane, look at the 787.  Wing assemblies from Japan, fuselage sections from Italy and much much more.  Here's an excellent article, and a cool graphic, showing the various sources for 787 assemblies.

 

https://www.aeronewstv.com/en/industry/commercial-aviation/3707-boeing-787-dreamliner-structure-parts-from-around-the-globe.html

 

 

[SelectSys]

On 5/24/2020 at 7:11 PM, zdcatc12 said:

No slower at altitude by much, if any, compared to other airliners. It was probably due to a 200-300 knot headwind because of the time of year it was, so it would have been slower on any jet. Most airliners fly between Mach .76 and .78 with a few, e.g. 747 around .80 or .81. Of course, the max ceiling on a MD is FL370 as opposed to FL430 or FL450 like some newer ones, so they could not fly as high either.

 

For sure the wind was a huge part of the slowness.  My theme song for those flights was Bob Seger's, "Against the Wind."  My memory is that the MD80 was the slowest of all AA's jets at the time as listed in the "American Way"  magazine and this contributed to my impatience of wanting to get home.   Maybe the Fokker 100 was slightly slower.  

[zdcatc12]

18 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

For sure the wind was a huge part of the slowness.  My theme song for those flights was Bob Seger's, "Against the Wind."  My memory is that the MD80 was the slowest of all AA's jets at the time as listed in the "American Way"  magazine and this contributed to my impatience of wanting to get home.   Maybe the Fokker 100 was slightly slower.  

Yes, the Fokker would have been slower and the Classic 737s, i.e. 300/400/500, though AA never flew those, about the same as the MD80s. The slowest jet used by airlines, though there were hardly any produced, was the J328, basically a D328 with jet engines, but the same wing. I believe their cruise was around .70.

[rkacruiser]

There was one version of a MD 80 plane in which I flew that had a galley on the left side of the plane, near the rear if I remember correctly, that took up space that could have seated passengers if it was not located there.  I had a seat on the right side opposite the galley and got prompt service for another beverage, etc.  I wondered then--and do still--why was such a design ever produced?

[FlyerTalker]

53 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

There was one version of a MD 80 plane in which I flew that had a galley on the left side of the plane, near the rear if I remember correctly, that took up space that could have seated passengers if it was not located there.  I had a seat on the right side opposite the galley and got prompt service for another beverage, etc.  I wondered then--and do still--why was such a design ever produced?

 

The galley was at the location of the aft left door, so it was convenient for catering.  As the size of the aircraft increased, the need for additional galley space was required - remember, these were designed in days when meals and beverage service was greater than what you find today - the 80s started service in 1980.

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

The galley was at the location of the aft left door, so it was convenient for catering.  As the size of the aircraft increased, the need for additional galley space was required - remember, these were designed in days when meals and beverage service was greater than what you find today - the 80s started service in 1980.

 

I did not realize that it was at that aft left door.  It was such an odd configuration for an aircraft on which I have flown that it has remained memorable.  

[MSUjohn]

being from michigan delta is my home airline and i fly delta almost exclusively. delta absorbed a lot of aircraft through its merger with northwest leaving them with a fleet that was a little bit of everything: 777, 767,  757, 747, 737, 717 md88/90, and the a320 family.

 

that is a huge variety of aircraft with a lot of overlap. streamlining the fleet is essential for training, parts maintenance and so on.

 

the retirment of the 777 is a shock because they all just completed a frame up overhaul including a brand new interior. i know there is a large overlap with the a350. the cabin crew i spoke to do not like the a350. i am no fan of the mad dog so i am not sad to see it go, the md717, i mean boeing 717 will be around for a couple of more years though. these are being replaced with the 737NG

 

he 767-400 are slightly younger than the more numerous 767-300 and may be around for a few more years especially since This includes a significant cabin retrofit that sees the airline with a proper business class product , a true premium economy product, and a refresh of its economy class seats.

 

i have flown the a220 once and it was nice.

[rkacruiser]

17 hours ago, MSUjohn said:

being from michigan delta is my home airline

 

DTW is my favorite airport.  I will go out of my way to try to make a connection to/from DAY, if I can, by booking flights through DTW.  

 

17 hours ago, MSUjohn said:

the cabin crew i spoke to do not like the a350

 

Did they say why?  Having flown on the A350 and the 777, I really did not see much difference other than the overhead luggage compartments on the A 350 seemed to be higher placed than on the 777.  

[MSUjohn]

On 7/12/2020 at 4:37 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

DTW is my favorite airport.  I will go out of my way to try to make a connection to/from DAY, if I can, by booking flights through DTW.  

 

 

Did they say why?  Having flown on the A350 and the 777, I really did not see much difference other than the overhead luggage compartments on the A 350 seemed to be higher placed than on the 777.  

 

yes, the cabin crew did not like the overhead luggage bins (we had ground staff come onboard to close them), they also DID NOT  like the galley. apparently everything about it was inconvenient. I should have enquired about their sleeping area on the a350 vs other airframes but didn't.

DTW is great; that being said I have never stepped foot in the north terminal.

Edited July 13, 2020 by MSUjohn

[rkacruiser]

7 minutes ago, MSUjohn said:

the cabin crew did not like the overhead luggage bins (we had ground staff come onboard to close them)

 

That is an interesting comment!  When I attempted to get my carry-on into the luggage bin, I had enough difficulty that the bag slipped, pining a finger of my left hand between the bag and the edge of the bin.  The finger was injured, sufficiently so that if I had said anything about it to a crew member, I would have been taken off the flight or had the flight delayed, I thought.  A passenger across from me saw my dilemma and pushed the bag into position.  My finger ached throughout the rest of my trip home and for several days afterwards.  

 

The most irritating thing was that the Delta One Flight Attendant for my area witnessed the entire situation from the Galley area (I was in seat 2A) and did nothing to assist.  He was the most disappointing Delta Flight Attendant that I have ever experienced throughout that flight.  

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

The most irritating thing was that the Delta One Flight Attendant for my area witnessed the entire situation from the Galley area (I was in seat 2A) and did nothing to assist.  He was the most disappointing Delta Flight Attendant that I have ever experienced throughout that flight.  

 

Much to the chagrin of some travelers, assisting with overhead bin bags is not a part of flight attendant duties.  In fact, there are reports of FAs who have been injured while assisting with luggage who have been denied workman's comp and injury reimbursement because it is not a specified work requirement.  So many, if not most, won't touch a passenger's bag.

[rkacruiser]

18 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Much to the chagrin of some travelers, assisting with overhead bin bags is not a part of flight attendant duties.  In fact, there are reports of FAs who have been injured while assisting with luggage who have been denied workman's comp and injury reimbursement because it is not a specified work requirement.  So many, if not most, won't touch a passenger's bag.

 

Did not know this and I appreciate your post.  Perhaps I was too harsh in my opinion of that Flight Attendant.  Knowing that he saw what was transpiring and did nothing to assist probably influenced my overall view of his service.  

[FlyerTalker]

If an FA assists, it's their own choice to do so.  Roll of the dice.

 

Keeping this to the original topic.....DL will now be scrapping some of their oldest A320s, acquired in the Northwest merger.  Not just retiring, scrapping.

[waterbug123]

16 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Did not know this and I appreciate your post.  Perhaps I was too harsh in my opinion of that Flight Attendant.  Knowing that he saw what was transpiring and did nothing to assist probably influenced my overall view of his service.  

 

Flyertalker is correct.  Furthermore, FAs are not technically "on the clock" until pushback.  They are required to be there during boarding but that time is not generally part of their paid hours.  Hence, the helping with bags not being one of their assigned duties.

[rkacruiser]

7 hours ago, waterbug123 said:

 

Flyertalker is correct.  Furthermore, FAs are not technically "on the clock" until pushback.  They are required to be there during boarding but that time is not generally part of their paid hours.  Hence, the helping with bags not being one of their assigned duties.

 

Your post is interesting to me.  "FAs are not technically on the clock until pushback."

 

So, as a First Class or Business Class passenger, they are "not on the clock" when they take my pre-flight drink order and deliver that drink?  Particularly flying Delta one, my FA will sometimes take my lunch or dinner order while the plane is still at the gate and the door has not been closed.