If 'Social Distancing' last till 2021 will we still have a Cruise Industry.

[lucymorgan]

11 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Countries get to decide when they open their borders, I certainly get that.  If it takes to long, I hope they remember when cruise lines do not return later then.  working together always works better than isolationism.  

I agree countries get to decide when to open their borders.  Countries with very low numbers of cases are planning to create these travel bubbles between them - working together as you say.  

 

Cruise lines will go to where they can make profit or (at least at the moment) match costs with expenses.   I wonder if the number of ships waiting in Manila Bay (25 ships) is partly to take advantage of any reopening in the proposed travel bubble down under.  

Edited May 21, 2020 by lucymorgan

[jimbo5544]

6 minutes ago, lucymorgan said:

I agree countries get to decide when to open their borders.  Countries with very low numbers of cases are planning to create these travel bubbles between them - working together as you say.  

 

Cruise lines will go to where they can make profit or (at least at the moment) match costs with expenses.   I wonder if the number of ships waiting in Manila is partly to take advantage of any reopening in the proposed travel bubble down under.  

Decisions go on both sides, and both have consequences.  Unless their is a significant reason, they might stay away.  I would applaud them doing so. I have seen maybe 3 ports that they would decide to cruise either way.  Take San Francisco as an example, since they chose to ignore the Miracle, Carnival will not sail from there for years.  Them doing so (if it happens) will cost them zero.

Edited May 21, 2020 by jimbo5544

[SeaHunt]

2 hours ago, datolim said:

Waiting to see how the airlines are handling this matter. Maybe some would operate up to 65% capacity, i.e. no middle seat. 

 

Here's an email I received from Delta showing what they plan on implementing:

 

Your safety remains paramount, and your feedback helps guide the actions that support wellness and distancing when you choose to travel with Delta. That’s why layers of protection are now in place at every touchpoint of your journey, from beginning to end. Here’s what you can expect: Confidence in your safety.   Safer travel starts as you check in, where you will be required to wear a mask until you reach your destination. Our employees will be wearing them as well - just ask for one if you don’t have your own. Surfaces you encounter are wiped down throughout the day, starting with kiosks and baggage stations. Plexiglass shields will be in place at Delta check-in and gate counters by the end of May, and you will be encouraged to maintain a safe distance with decals at check-in, at the gate and on all Delta-owned jet bridges.  At the gate, you’ll find gate areas and jet bridges disinfected with electrostatic spraying. Before you board, our teams follow an extensive cleaning checklist with authority to hold the flight for additional cleaning if they aren’t satisfied. This includes safely sanitizing each aircraft with electrostatic spraying before every flight and wiping down tray tables and seatback screens. Boarding will occur from back to front and be limited to 10 customers at a time to minimize your contact with others. You will receive snack bags with a sanitizing wipe at boarding on select flights to reduce onboard service touchpoints. Every flight is capped at 60 percent capacity and middle seats are blocked for your protection. The air on all aircraft is completely recirculated 10 to 30 times per hour with fresh, outside air or through industrial-grade HEPA filters with similar performance to those used in hospital operating rooms and other highly sensitive environments. Announcements will also encourage you to take time when deplaning to create distance for those ahead to exit.  We are exceeding all travel guidelines set by the U.S. Travel Association, and you have my commitment that we will consistently deliver. If you have questions during your trip, our team will be available to answer them.  Flexibility and understanding as travel plans change.    In a recent survey, one of you shared, “I was anticipating a hassle from previous customer support experiences with other companies, but my concern was addressed in a way that felt very good as a consumer. This was my best support experience ever.” Our Reservations and Customer Care team has processed more than $1.5 billion in cash refunds since January, including $182 million so far this month. Your patience is appreciated as they continue to handle an enormous volume of calls each day. You can also easily cancel, make changes or rebook online via My Trips any time before your travel date. If you have travel booked through Sept. 30, 2020, or existing eCredits from flights March 1st through Sept. 30, 2020, there are no change fees to reschedule your trip through Sept. 30, 2022. In addition, tickets purchased between March 1 and May 31, 2020, can be changed without a change fee for a year from your date of purchase.  While this crisis has made us distance ourselves, the isolation has brought a sense of togetherness as we check in on one another. I will continue to communicate with you and ask that you share any feedback you have. You can rest assured that we are taking every step to keep you safe throughout your journey when you are ready to fly with us again.     Sincerely,

Ed Bastian   CEO

Edited May 21, 2020 by SeaHunt

[BlerkOne]

Prices may go up, but cruising will go on.

[MsTabbyKats]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Prices may go up, but cruising will go on.

Exactly...because chartering a private yacht can be very expensive!

[scpirate]

12 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Bookings for cruises are up. Fact.

Up from what ? zero.

[shipbound2]

4 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Cruise lines have to take risks to stay in business.  Carnival is ready to sail now.  If as in a past post there would be no cruises thru 2021, then cruising as we know it would cease to exist.  

I canceled my October 31,2020 cruise and rebooked it for 5/5/2021 on the Horizon. I did not want to deal with all that  social distancing and other crap.

 

[bamaone]

4 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Yeah....down down down because of social distancing and masks.  As it gets warmer out...off come the masks and groups gather.  Then it will be up up up.

Or you may be wrong wrong wrong

[ProgRockCruiser]

3 hours ago, Joe817 said:

Brazil is in the southern hemisphere. As we here in the northern hemisphere are coming out of our colder weather, Brazil is entering their colder season. So sun is not going to be as great, or as strong. And according to news reports, Brazil is not handling this pandemic as well as the U.S. 

Northern Brazil straddles the equator.  The southernmost section of Brazil is about as far south as Jacksonville, FL is north.  Sao Paulo in the south sees "winter" daily low temps in the 50s.  

 

So Brazil will see a cooler period, but not exactly DC-area winter.  

 

However, the handing of the coronavirus issue in the country has been quite, um, poor indeed.

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

This is the first time I am posting without having a response message .  This & many other topics are so divisive.  Are we really that different as a society?  
 

Yeah, let’s cruise ASAP.  But let’s cruise safely.  Is it that hard for 2,000–5,000 people to come together for 3-7 days without defining every single item as a point of contention?  I’m friggen  scared but I will go.  You should make your opinion plausible rather than being self-centric.  We all have a vested interest in future cruises.  I’m not canceling & will make my final payment.  

[SeaHunt]

To add to my post #78 answering datolim re flights:

 

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) announced several changes to the airport screening process on Thursday, part of an effort to implement safety measures through the entire travel process during the novel coronavirus pandemic.

 

However, a program to implement temperature checks for passengers, widely expected to be introduced in the coming days, was not included in the changes.

 

"In the interest of TSA frontline workers and traveler health, TSA is committed to making prudent changes to our screening processes to limit physical contact and increase physical distance as much as possible," TSA Administrator David Pekoske said in a press release. "We continue to evaluate our security measures with an eye towards making smart, timely decisions benefiting health and safety, as well as the traveler experience."

 

The new procedures are expected to be rolled out nationwide by mid-June, the TSA said. Most of the protocols involve fairly simple changes aimed at promoting social distance, and decreasing touch points between screeners and passengers.

 

The administration highlighted five changes:

Passengers will keep possession of their boarding passes, rather than handing them to a screener. Passengers will be asked to place the passes on the barcode scanner themselves, and to hold them up for screeners to read.

 

People traveling with food should place it into a plastic bag, and should put it in a separate bin before it goes through the X-ray machine. According to the TSA, food items "often trigger an alarm during the screening process; separating the food from the carry-on bag lessens the likelihood that a TSA officer will need to open the carry-on bag and remove the food items for a closer inspection."

 

While passengers can continue to take up to 12 ounces of hand sanitizer through checkpoints, other liquids are still restricted to 3.4 ounces. If a bag is found to contain a prohibited item, passengers may be sent outside of security with their bag to dispose of the item, instead of opening their bag and having it inspected by a screener. This is to reduce contact between screeners and bags' contents.

 

The TSA will ask passengers to practice social distance while in line for security, and will start marking appropriate spacing on the floor, as well as staggering checkpoints where possible. 

 

Passengers are encouraged to wear facial coverings while in the airport and at security, though may need to briefly pull it down to be identified at the screening checkpoint. US airlines are requiring passengers to wear masks while on board.

 

The TSA also said that passengers who have not flown during the pandemic may notice a few changes before their next flight, including:

Reduced security lane usage due to the reduction in passenger volume.

All TSA officers at checkpoints wearing masks and gloves.

TSA officers optionally wearing eye protection and clear plastic face shields at some locations.

TSA officers will continue the practice of changing gloves after each pat-down.

Plastic shielding installed at many travel document checking podiums, divest, bag search and drop off locations.

TSA officers practicing social distancing.

Routine cleaning and disinfecting of frequently touched surfaces in the screening checkpoint area.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tsa-just-announced-5-changes-160901809.html

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, lucymorgan said:

I wonder if the number of ships waiting in Manila Bay (25 ships) is partly to take advantage of any reopening in the proposed travel bubble down under.  

Considering they are currently packed with Filipino crew who cannot disembark to their home country, I really don't think that is the major consideration for why they are there.

[BlerkOne]

54 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Exactly...because chartering a private yacht can be very expensive!

 

No requirement to social distance on a charter.

 

The crew on cruise ships has a much better understanding and respect for rules to avoid sickness on cruise ships compared to the general land based US population, it appears.

[ProgRockCruiser]

Regarding # of cases of coronavirus in FL - the recent "statistics" have been up and down for quite a while, bouncing between 550 and 950 new cases per day for a couple of weeks, maybe a bit more.  But today the state announced over 1200 new cases in the last day.  Random spike in the noise of sampling?  Perhaps.  Result of the incubation period after starting to open up more fully two weeks ago?  Perhaps.  Also, with the shenanigans going on with the firing of the dashboard manager, I'm not sure I trust what the state publishes anyway.

 

Florida didn't fully into "Phase 1" until Monday of this week - south Florida still had a number of restrictions in place.  Phase 2 has not yet started, I believe, just an expanded Phase 1.  

 

As for # of new cases each day vs the total number of tests: I don't think enough or the right type of data has been collected to make any judgments.  Yeah, more testing will lead to more overall positive tests, and should also lead to more negative tests.  But early on, the tests were restricted to those really at risk and/or showing definitive symptoms, so they tended to show high rates of infection per number of people tested.  Now, the tests are far more widespread, and people probably not really at risk of being infected are getting tested for peace of mind.

 

Personally, I'm taking it cautious, because I know too many older/at risk folks, and I don't want to be a vector.  And I also don't want to get sick, oddly enough.  If things have really started to trend down by early June, I'll feel a bit better.

 

As for the OP's original question: IMHO, if social distancing through use of face masks and physical separation is still "required", then cruising will not happen - too many people won't want to do it, so will either cancel, or too many will break the "rules", not wear masks, get all crowded at the bars, Lido deck, and comedy clubs, and eventually another outbreak will occur, and the gates will come slamming down again.

[MsTabbyKats]

1 hour ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

This is the first time I am posting without having a response message .  This & many other topics are so divisive.  Are we really that different as a society?  
 

Yeah, let’s cruise ASAP.  But let’s cruise safely.  Is it that hard for 2,000–5,000 people to come together for 3-7 days without defining every single item as a point of contention?  I’m friggen  scared but I will go.  You should make your opinion plausible rather than being self-centric.  We all have a vested interest in future cruises.  I’m not canceling & will make my final payment.  

Cruising is supposed to be fun.  If you're "friggin scared" why would you go on a cruise?

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

1 minute ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Cruising is supposed to be fun.  If you're "friggin scared" why would you go on a cruise?

Because I’m tired of worrying about if my payment is refundable & my wife still wants to go.  I’m not scared for myself; scared of what I might bringing back.  Cruising is generally about relaxation to me rather than fun.  I can make sure I space myself away & not focus on what is my current misery going to work.  At least I hope that happens.  

[firefly333]

6 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

Because I’m tired of worrying about if my payment is refundable & my wife still wants to go.  I’m not scared for myself; scared of what I might bringing back.  Cruising is generally about relaxation to me rather than fun.  I can make sure I space myself away & not focus on what is my current misery going to work.  At least I hope that happens.  

I think everyone is worried, but hiding at home forever also isnt a answer unless you are my parents age.

 

I read about that swimmer who win all those medals saying the virus is triggering his mental issues. My cousins daughter is back at her doctors with high blood pressure having a panic attack. 

 

I'm going on living but being careful. I know everyone is worried, but stopping life isnt necessarily healthy either. If my cruise goes, so will I. I bought lots of books, got a centrally located cabin and will avoid elevators as much as possible. Staying locked in my house I'm going stir crazy. Each to their own. I'm ignoring the doom and gloom, reading their posts not good for my mental health.

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

9 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I think everyone is worried, but hiding at home forever also isnt a answer unless you are my parents age.

 

I read about that swimmer who win all those medals saying the virus is triggering his mental issues. My cousins daughter is back at her doctors with high blood pressure having a panic attack. 

 

I'm going on living but being careful. I know everyone is worried, but stopping life isnt necessarily healthy either. If my cruise goes, so will I. I bought lots of books, got a centrally located cabin and will avoid elevators as much as possible. Staying locked in my house I'm going stir crazy. Each to their own. I'm ignoring the doom and gloom, reading their posts not good for my mental health.

Sorry if my posts appear to be doom & gloom.  I’ve not been hiding; actually working every day since this started in an essential position in a high exposure state.  I do also have some of the issues your cousins daughter has so every day is an adventure for me.  My post earlier was that I’m willing to take some mitigated risk since living in a bubble long term is not living.  
 

Arguing over politics, masks and everything else we can’t ever agree on is no longer worth my time.  I never try to sway others so that is not why I’m posting.  I’m just convinced at this point that if my cruise will happen & I should be on it.

[sanger727]

10 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Actually they are trending down. Fact

I’m not going to disagree with you about how the numbers are trending. In Ohio we have been holding steady at around 500-600 new cases a day down from a high of 1,000-1,200. But things had been shut down until this week. We won’t really know what things re-opening is going to mean until a lot of things re-open and wait a couple weeks to see if the trend changes. What we know is that when everything shuts down, cases don’t go crazy. What we don’t know is what happens when it all opens back up again. 

[ladylyn915]

We have gotten off the track of the OP's question.  I have just one comment with regard to COVID19 numbers trending up or down.  Although I do not work in a hospital,  someone very close to me is a first responder in NYC.  He is privy to much information not necessarily given to the public.  For example,  if a COVID19 patient with an underlying heart problem passes - it is very possible that the death certificate will list cardiac arrest as COD.  This can help COVID19 numbers trend "a certain way" (down).  Conversely, hospitals are funded differently for COVID19 deaths and someone who enters the hospital with CHF may contract COVID19  and die and COVID19 is entered on the death certificate creating a trending higher COVID19 number. (  This may be hearsay - it has been told to me- I have no first hand proof  - please don't flame me).  I believe my relative, you do not have to.  I simply present what I have been told.  It seems plausible to me.  It is a little food for thought.  I only know everyone I know who is in the medical field who has  been in the hospitals these past months say they have never seen anything like this and hope they never do again.

 

Our Panorama cruise was cancelled.  I love cruising as a couple or with my children and their families - but I am not in a hurry to return just yet.

 

My apologies to the OP - we have gotten off the track.....

 

Lyn

[ninjacat123]

3 minutes ago, ladylyn915 said:

 For example,  if a COVID19 patient with an underlying heart problem passes - it is very possible that the death certificate will list cardiac arrest as COD.  This can help COVID19 numbers trend "a certain way" (down).  Conversely, hospitals are funded differently for COVID19 deaths and someone who enters the hospital with CHF may contract COVID19  and die and COVID19 is entered on the death certificate creating a trending higher COVID19 number.

I have heard similar information that concurs with this.

[bitemyfly]

I will not cruise with masks and distancing rules in place .

I think if you take children under 17 out of the population on ccl cruises many if not the majority of people on cruises are at the at risk age which I believe is 65 and up.While there will be some bargin hunters and die hards in the ramp up , without a vaccine most won’t be cruising. Here is hoping for effective treatment and ultimately a vaccine by years end.

 

[MsTabbyKats]

7 minutes ago, bitemyfly said:

I will not cruise with masks and distancing rules in place .

I think if you take children under 17 out of the population on ccl cruises many if not the majority of people on cruises are at the at risk age which I believe is 65 and up.While there will be some bargin hunters and die hards in the ramp up , without a vaccine most won’t be cruising. Here is hoping for effective treatment and ultimately a vaccine by years end.

 

It seems that children suffer more serious post-covid complications than adults.  So, let's assume parents don't want to put their child's life at risk.

Who's left?

[Stallion]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I posted the numbers they dispute what you say.  

 

https://covid19.ncdhhs.gov/dashboard/testing

 

Your own source under Hospitalizations shows a steady increase over the last 6 days

 

https://covid19.ncdhhs.gov/dashboard/hospitalizations

[jimbo5544]

37 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

It seems that children suffer more serious post-covid complications than adults.  So, let's assume parents don't want to put their child's life at risk.

Who's left?

Quantum leap?