Bigger, Newer Ships, In New Home Ports

[TravelerThom]

13 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Don’t forget that the GT is only a measure of interior volume.  Oasis class ships also have a lot more outdoor space compared to other ships that isn’t included in that.

Does anyone know what oasis class square footage of public deck space (which I guess would include the Deck 5 running track) per SOLAS count is? How does that compare to other classes? Obviously Oasis has a lot of public deck space, but they also have a lot of people, some stacked 17 decks high. 

[Sea Dog]

9 hours ago, RCCL Fan said:

Sure, we might be sailing again in September, or October but it's only going to be a couple ships and it's probably not going to be where they're currently scheduled to sail.

Looks like we made the right call to L&S our October Freedom sailing out of SJ to November of 21. Curious if San Juan will open it's ports even by then.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Sea Dog

[Crazy planning mom]

9 hours ago, RCCL Fan said:

 

There are 3 quotes that stood out to me in today's call from RCI leadership....    

 

1)

"We don't expect that... someday somebody blows a horn, and all the ships start operating right away. We think that it will be a gradual start, a little bit like society is opening up gradually."

 

2)

"So we would imagine that we would start with fewer ships, and more likely to be more drive markets in the beginning, and then it would then evolve and grow from there."

 

3)

"But certainly the newer ships have more public space per passenger. And would be heavily in consideration for the return to service, as well as other ships that we've modernized and having more venues on to."

 

So...

It's not like August 1, or September 1, All ships are going to sail as scheduled.  Nope.

 

Sure, we might be sailing again in September, or October but it's only going to be a couple ships and it's probably not going to be where they're currently scheduled to sail.

 

Newer and Bigger ships are most cost effective and allow easiest social distancing....

 

and RCI believes travelers will people will still avoid being in an enclosed space like an airplane.... but may be willing to cruise... so lets make the ships easier to drive to. 

 

If all this holds true....

 

I think we're going to see the Oasis, Quantum class ships  and the recently amped ships (Indy, Navigator,Mariner) deployed around the country, rather than concentrated in South Florida.

 

Divide them up first between...

NY/NJ, Orlando, South Florida, Texas, Seattle... 

 

Then places like Baltimore, Norfolk, Boston, Charleston, New Orleans. 

 

The fleet may get entirely reassigned for a bit... which will play havoc for those cruises we have booked this winter.

 

Again all guesses, but that's what my brain came up with when I read these quotes....   What about you?

Disagree about them moving ships.

They are going to focus on Florida in the beginning and then Galveston.  NY/NJ has been hardest hit by Corona and will not open soon.  Baltimore cannot accommodate larger sailings.  I don't see RC all of the sudden sailing out of Norfolk and Charleston. 

[twangster]

I think you have to take the quotes offered in context to the questions that were asked.  

 

These are not statements that were made in broad terms attempting to project what Royal is thinking, these were specific responses to questions that were posed during the Q&A portion of the investor call.  Be careful extrapolating the company's direction from them, the response and verbiage quoted was created on the fly off the top of their heads to satisfy investors.

 

To that end I don't see them trying to move ships around to fulfil the statements as manadates of their intentions to bring the quotes to fruition.  

 

The way I see it is that they expect the makeup of their initial guests after restart to be folks that are within driving distance of an existing home port operation.  They are not expecting a lot of guests will be arriving on planes.  From an investor perspective they are warning that part of the past market won't be sailing.   They don't expect very many fly-in guests.   I don't see it to indicate they intend to add new home ports to create new drive markets.  

 

I don't see it to mean they are going to do costly ship movements or repositioning to a new area that doesn't already have bookings for that ship in that home port.  Oasis at Cape Liberty for example has existing August and September bookings they could leverage.  Oasis at a Florida port in August has zero bookings and very little time to sell enough bookings to make a profitable cruise.  If they move Oasis to anywhere other than Bayonne this summer they have thousands of cancellations and refunds to deal with, assuming that Bayonne can reopen and some established sail dates can execute.

 

To rip a ship away from a home port that has existing bookings means more cancellations and refunds which is the last thing they want.    Grandeur has existing bookings for Baltimore.  If the port opens and they can sail then so be it, Grandeur sails from Baltimore.   

 

During good times it takes a two year sales cycle to fill a ship.  Moving a ship to a new port it was wasn't already sailing from means starting at zero bookings during a time when many fewer people will be looking to book a cruise.  Moving another ship to Baltimore or to a new home port where they have no existing operation would be costly and yield very low sales.  

 

What I see happening first are the short 3 & 4 night Mariner and Navigator cruises that include CocoCay.  There are existing bookings for these established sail dates and Florida has always been the number one cruise market by a large margin.  They also said on the call that they are pleasantly surprised by the number of loyalty bookings they are seeing.  Florida has high concentrations of loyalty members.    While not everyone on a 3 night cruise is a drive guest I'm betting the majority are as few guests are going to fly for a 3 night cruise.  Sure, there would have been some, but not the majority on any particular sail date.

 

Crewing just two ships such as Mariner and Navigator would be easier to do.

 

Short sailing have another benefit.  If the average person takes 4 to 5 days to display full on COVID-19 symptoms then it's less likely a newly infected person can attribute an infection explicitly to a 3 or 4 night cruise.  They might suspect they caught it on the cruise but they also most likely went other places where they could have caught it.  They could have caught it church, they could have caught it while grocery shopping, they could have caught it at the mall or restaurant that opened up.  Short cruises reduce (but not eliminate) the opportunity to make the news with a COVID-19 outbreak.  

[goldfish65]

Should I be prepared that my dream of a T/A on a smaller, older ship next April (Rhapsody) won't ever happen?

[jrapps]

15 minutes ago, twangster said:

I don't see it to mean they are going to do costly ship movements or repositioning to a new area that doesn't already have bookings for that ship in that home port. 

 

What I see happening first are the short 3 & 4 night Mariner and Navigator cruises that include CocoCay. 

 

I agree with this. They aren't going to move ships but they will be cancelling sailing from some ships/ports while allowing others to sail when they first start and it will totally be dependent on the local rules, how full the ship booking are, how much crew they have, etc. 

 

I personally believe they will start in FL with 2 ships (possibly Mariner and Navigator) to dip toes in the water. They will want to rely first on ports where people can drive to and not rely on flying for a good base of cruisers. Those ships appeal mostly to FL natives. Short 3-4 day sailing only, possibly going ONLY to CocoCay so there is zero interaction between guests and foreign ports. They will do everything they can to sail at 50% capacity or less, even if that means offering people upgrades to move to different sailings to free up space. Even if those ships sail at a financial loss, it will be a way of starting up.

 

From there they may add 1-2 Oasis class ships as those can sail with less people and still be profitable. But that will depend on how successful the first tests are. Benefits of Oasis ships are the space and profitability, but they also usually only do 7-day itineraries with many ports. I can see them trying to favor short cruises with limited ports on the ramp up.

[twangster]

4 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I personally believe they will start in FL with 2 ships (possibly Mariner and Navigator) to dip toes in the water. They will want to rely first on ports where people can drive to and not rely on flying for a good base of cruisers. Those ships appeal mostly to FL natives. Short 3-4 day sailing only, possibly going ONLY to CocoCay so there is zero interaction between guests and foreign ports.

 

Plus CocoCay has proven to yield good revenues since PDCC.   Reduced opportunity for the exposure to COVID-19 AND a good source for more revenue.  Win-win.   

[Milwaukee Eight]

Would love to sail on Oasis Class at 30% Capacity. 

[Ourusualbeach]

2 hours ago, TravelerThom said:

Does anyone know what oasis class square footage of public deck space (which I guess would include the Deck 5 running track) per SOLAS count is? How does that compare to other classes? Obviously Oasis has a lot of public deck space, but they also have a lot of people, some stacked 17 decks high. 

Having a square footage of public space excluding corridors for every ship would be great but I have not seen that posted anywhere

[newcruzer2]

13 hours ago, pspercy said:

I've read Galveston can handle a larger ship but the concerns are people handling and traffic outside.

Three rumours in last couple of days have Anthem coming there. We'll see 🙂

I sure hope so, I have Dec 2021 allure booked but will cancel it they simply leave liberty in Galveston

[pspercy]

I read somewhere Liberty has already gone to take crew home or something like that.

 

She's showing as being at Cococay at present.

[Biker19]

Another fun read from just a few months ago and what people were thinking.

 

Along with that, since this initiative has former RCI staff on it, you may see in the distant future, some RCI ships doing a port stop on the Asia-Europe repos:

 

Officially launched today, Cruise Saudi aims to establish the cruise industry in Saudi Arabia and create a new destination for international cruise lines

 

Cruise Saudi will develop ports and terminals in several cities, along with tourist destinations, all with the aim of introducing new itineraries that explore Saudi heritage and culture while ensuring the preservation of the environment and the protection of natural resources.

Based in Jeddah, Cruise Saudi is fully owned by the country's Public Investment Fund, the kingdom's main investment arm. It is part of the PIF Strategy 2021-2025, which focuses on diversifying revenue sources away from oil.

 

'Historic moment'

Speaking today at the Future Investment Initiative in Riyadh, Cruise Saudi Interim CEO Fawaz Farooqui called the launch a 'historic moment.'

It is a testament to the country's Vision 2030, the tourists Saudi Arabia wants to attract and the new cultural sites it wants to develop.

 

Plus, 'It's a brand-new destination, and this is exactly what the cruise industry is looking for,' Farooqui said. 'So we want to give them access to beautiful sites and pristine waters and beaches,' while also ensuring the sites and the environment are protected and preserved.

Cruise Saudi is also expected to boost the economy, creating 50,000 direct, indirect and seasonal jobs by 2035.

 

On stage with Farooqui in Riyadh was Manfredi Lefebvre d'Ovidio, former Silversea Cruises executive chairman and owner, and co-chairman of Abercrombie & Kent. Last year, Cruise Saudi operated a Red Sea charter program with a Silversea ship.

'Huge potential'

Having extensively toured the country, Lefebvre sees 'huge potential.' He said Saudi Arabia offers 'everything — authentic culture, beautiful nature, the best sea in the world, incredible landscapes, history, food, so much to do and so much to see.'

 

Infrastructure is needed, but 'that is going to come, I hope,' Lefebvre said.

Silversea has stops in Jeddah during 2022 and 2023 as part of Piraeus-Dubai and Singapore (or Mumbai)-Piraeus voyages.

UNESCO World Heritage Sites

Farooqui noted three of the country's five UNESCO World Heritage Sites will be accessible through Cruise Saudi, two on the Red Sea and one on the Arabian Gulf. This, along with 'the most stunning marine habitat with some of the most resilient coral reefs in the world, and we're going to be sure we're protecting it.'

 

Cruise Saudi, he added, is a 'one-stop shop to help cruise companies get into Saudi Arabia.'

Farooqui added: 'The Saudi waters are open. We welcome you to Saudi Arabia.'

MSC to call Damman

Pierfrancesco Vago, executive chairman of MSC Cruises and global chairman of Cruise Lines International Association, noted new destinations will be key to cruising's recovery and sustainable growth.

 

Welcoming Cruise Saudi, he said MSC is looking at the Red Sea, 'an incredible destination,' along with the Arabian Gulf.

 

Vago announced that for the upcoming 2021/22 season in the Gulf, MSC will incorporate a stop at Dammam in Saudi Arabia, part of a 'beautiful offering' that includes Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Qatar.

Jeddah homeport?

Vago added it may be possible to develop a homeport in Jeddah one day where MSC travelers from all over the world could embark to explore the Red Sea.

 

He suggested a smaller vessel may be appropriate for this destination and underscored the importance of protecting the environment.

 

Another panelist, Barry Sternlicht, chairman and CEO of Starwood Capital Group, which is working on three hotels in the country, said he's impressed with the delicate balance Saudi Arabia is achieving by pushing ahead with development while also prioritizing preserving the environment.

 

Sternlicht complimented the country on its 'excellent' US advertising campaign which 'demystifies an area of the world that's not very well understood. It's such a culture of hospitality.

I've always felt very welcome,' he said.

 

Former Disney Cruise Line President Karl Holz, who moderated the Future Investment Initiative cruise session, directed the audience to cruisesaudi.com, which lists two high-profile cruise industry executives bolstering the team: Miguel Reyna as chief development & asset management officer and Mark Robinson as chief commercial & operations officer.

 

Reyna spent 20 years with Royal Caribbean Group in commercial and port development and asset management roles roles, most recently as AVP commercial development & construction.

 

With more than 30 years of experience in the cruise and travel sectors, Robinson most recently served as head of business development, EMEA & Asia Pacific, for Global Ports Holding. Earlier, he created and led Intercruises Shoreside & Port Services over 15 years.

 

PIF-backed Cruise Saudi to develop national cruise industry (seatrade-cruise.com)

[Biker19]

Cruise Saudi is planning to develop six ports for cruise operations in the coming years including an initial three locations along the Red Sea and Dammam on the Arabian Gulf.

 

Ghassan Khan, chief strategy officer at Cruise Saudi spoke of its plans to build and manage ports, cruise facilities and destinations showcasing the best of what Saudi Arabia has to offer in an Innovation Buzz Zone interview with Mary Bond at Seatrade Cruise Virtual: Expedition Cruising.

 

‘We are focussing on developing six destinations within the next few years but for this year we will be activating three cruise facilities along the Red Sea – Jeddah, Yanbu and Al Wajh,’ noted Khan.

 

When we talk about development we want to ensure sustainability and minimise the environmental impact as we want to keep our shores unspoilt so we will first be using existing facilities and upgrading them or expanding them but some developments in the future will be green field sites.

UNESCO World Heritage sites

Saudi Arabia has five UNESCO World Heritage sites – ‘three of which are close to the ports we are investing in,’ explained Khan.

‘We are in an age of mass tourism and selfie sticks and these sites are fresh air for expedition tourists.’

He picked out nature, culture and heritage as just three of the draws that Saudi Arabia can offer as a cruise destination.

‘This is the first time in decades that a new cruise destination has truly opened up and it’s really a milestone for us as a company and a country and I believe for the cruise industry as well,’ he added.

Khan remarked, ‘since we launched we have seen an overwhelming interest from cruise lines and partners who are interested in working in Saudi.’

As the architect and driver of cruising in Saudi Arabia we aim to be the one-stop-shop  for whatever the cruise lines need, be it infrastructure, shorex, logistics and travel arrangements.

Source market

Khan and the team at Cruise Saudi hope to welcome homeporting cruise lines very soon and he also see huge potential for Saudi Arabia to become an important source market for the global cruise market:

‘Our country is within a 3hr flight from a population of 250m people living in Asia, Africa and Europe. As we drive investment in the tourism sector not only in sea ports, but world class airports and land connectivity  and as we educate and open up cruising to Saudi tourists there is opportunity.

 

Silversea Cruises’ Silver Spirit ran a series of sailings here last summer targeted at the local source market and it generated a lot of interest, he said.

Authentic

Asked to name three key factors of the appeal of Saudi Arabia as an  expedition cruise destination Khan swiftly replied: captivating, accessible and authentic.

 

‘Saudi Arabia has something for everyone..it is rich in culture and appeals to a diverse spectrum of travellers seeking to discover unspoilt territories whether its diving in the Red Sea, trekking in the mountains or desert exploration. These experiences coupled with heritage, cuisine and our renowned hospitality makes it very appealing,’ he concluded.

 

Cruise Saudi to develop ports close to UNESCO World Heritage sites (seatrade-cruise.com)

[Biker19]

Cruise Saudi, a 100-percent Public Investment Fund-owned business that seeks to develop Saudi Arabia’s cruise industry, and MSC Cruises have announced the launch of Red Sea cruises in the coming winter 2021-2022 season.

 

Fawaz Farooqui, Managing Director of Cruise Saudi, and Pierfrancesco Vago, Executive Chairman of MSC Cruises, signed a landmark framework agreement in the Saudi capital city Riyadh to mark the beginning of the new partnership.

 

Under the terms of the agreement, the MSC Magnifica will homeport in Jeddah, the commercial hub and one of the largest cities of Saudi Arabia, as well as the second-largest port in the Middle East with a historical centre that has been designated as a UNESCO World Heritage site.

 

Operating seven-day Red Sea cruises from November 2021 to March 2022, the vessel will visit a selection of ports and destinations in the region and three Saudi ports including weekly calls to the port of AlWajh, the gateway to the UNESCO World Heritage site of AlUla.

 

As the Kingdom prepares to host the inaugural Formula 1 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix 2021 on Dec. 5 in Jeddah, the Magnifica guests will have the chance to follow this global sports event during their trip aboard the Magnifica.

 

In addition to the Magnifica’s Red Sea sailings, MSC Cruises’ flagship Virtuosa will see her winter 2021 programme in the Arabian Gulf enriched with calls in the port of Dammam, visiting AlAhsa oasis, another UNESCO World Heritage site.

 

The Virtuosa will call at this new exciting destination every week from December 2021 to March 2022.

Speaking on the signing of the agreement, Farooqui said: “We are delighted to work with MSC Cruises and are keen to forge a long-term partnership. We look forward to exploring opportunities to increase the number and size of vessels operating on Saudi routes in the future. Saudi Arabia has a lot to offer visitors, and the new collaboration will open doors for intrepid travelers from across the globe to be amongst the first to experience the rich Saudi heritage and warm, hospitality. Meanwhile, through welcoming international tourists to these emerging destinations, it will create new sources of income for local communities.”

 

For his part, Vago said: “Having witnessed at first hand the richness of the local heritage, I am impressed with Saudi Arabia’s ability to preserve its traditions and culture and make them available for the world to see. I am delighted that MSC Cruises will be in a position to contribute to the Kingdom’s opening to international visitors through becoming a premier cruise destination and I look forward to helping tourists from all over the world as well as from the Kingdom discover the incredible wonders that this country has to offer, including the untouched beauty of its coastline and historical sites.”

The two companies expect a total of up to 170,000 guests to explore Saudi Arabia’s historical, cultural and natural treasures onboard the two MSC Cruises ships during the upcoming winter 2021-2022 season. Saudi residents will also get the opportunity to spend their holidays in their home country and discover its wonders from the comfort that only a cruise ship can provide.

 

International guests will be able to reach Jeddah via direct flight connections from the most important European and international cities serviced by Saudia, the Kingdom’s flag carrier. Thanks to a dedicated partnership, for the benefit of cruise guests, flights will have their schedules modified to fit the two ships’ departure and arrival times to ensure smoother connections throughout.

 

MSC Signs Landmark Agreement With Cruise Saudi To Bring its Ships To Saudi Arabia - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

 

Is RCCL desperate enough to divert a ship to this new market?

[RFerrington]

17 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Is RCCL desperate enough to divert a ship to this new market?

My guess is that RCCL would go anywhere they believed they could make money....but I also believe it would be a long slog to get into that market.  I would go if I felt it was safe.  I’ve never been to SA but I’ve spent a fair amount of time in neighboring Bahrain.  It’s very different but I enjoy the cultural differences.  I love shopping in the suqs.

[RobInMN]

On 5/21/2020 at 8:37 AM, TravelerThom said:

Does anyone know what oasis class square footage of public deck space (which I guess would include the Deck 5 running track) per SOLAS count is? How does that compare to other classes? Obviously Oasis has a lot of public deck space, but they also have a lot of people, some stacked 17 decks high. 

On one of our cruises on Symphony, I looked at the ship FAQ or details, or stats or whatever they called it that you could get at the customer service desk next to the printed CC's. Taking the listed square footage of "air conditioned space" divided by the maximum capacity of passengers and crew (6600 + 2200 = 8800 total), I came up with ~181 sq feet per person. Reversing that, I think the "Air Conditioned space" must have been listed at 1.6 million sq. ft. Like others have pointed out, that does not include the outdoor deck space. But I suppose if you were to put 8800 people on the outdoor deck space at the same time, you probably aren't going to increase that 181 sq ft by very much.

[dswallow]

The laws of most countries in the middle east are such that I simply do not even consider the possibility of sitting on a cruise ship in their port, let alone be on their land. 

[John&LaLa]

18 minutes ago, dswallow said:

The laws of most countries in the middle east are such that I simply do not even consider the possibility of sitting on a cruise ship in their port, let alone be on their land. 

 

Had a fabulous time in Dubai, Oman, Jordan, and of course, Israel.  

 

Would have gone back on Jewel, but ship happens

Edited April 21, 2021 by John&LaLa