What happens then.........?

[HamOp]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

In 1960 (about the time that polio and measles vaccines started to be given), the US population was 180 million. Now it is an estimated 330 million.

 

I doubt we have nearly twice as many public health workers now, to organize such a massive undertaking.

 

The U.S. now has 3.8 Million RN's.  The U.S. Has around 1.5 million doctors.  Many pharmacists ( about 306,000) are now able to give injections.

So, that's about 5.6 million people who can stick a needle in your arm.  That works out to about one medical professional for  about every 60 people.

 

disclaimer - all the stats came from the internet, so take it for what it's worth. 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

26 minutes ago, HamOp said:

The U.S. now has 3.8 Million RN's.  The U.S. Has around 1.5 million doctors.  Many pharmacists ( about 306,000) are now able to give injections.

So, that's about 5.6 million people who can stick a needle in your arm.  That works out to about one medical professional for  about every 60 people.

 

disclaimer - all the stats came from the internet, so take it for what it's worth. 

 

 

 

That's assuming that a) they are not busy doing other extremely essential things -- like saving lives, and b) that everyone will have access to them. 

 

[cbr663]

22 hours ago, Doubt It said:

Excellent thread.

 

One thing our family has always included into purchasing decisions is a "hassle factor".

 

The notion of having a risk of being turned away at the dock based on one or more tests, and then possibly more tests during the cruise, significantly reduces cruising as an option.

 

The benefits of a cruise would have to significantly outweigh the "hassle factor".

 

Until it is very clear what the risks are to the purchaser of cruises, will not consider cruising as an option.

 

 

I like your "hassle factor."  There are a lot of changes that could happen with the cruise experience that could not only make it a big hassle to cruise but also strip it of the things that we personally enjoy.  Until I know what the cruise product will be post COVID-19, we will not be booking a cruise.

[CruiserBruce]

11 hours ago, HamOp said:

The U.S. now has 3.8 Million RN's.  The U.S. Has around 1.5 million doctors.  Many pharmacists ( about 306,000) are now able to give injections.

So, that's about 5.6 million people who can stick a needle in your arm.  That works out to about one medical professional for  about every 60 people.

 

disclaimer - all the stats came from the internet, so take it for what it's worth. 

 

 

The other issue here is there is a well known nurse shortage, and in many fields, a doctor shortage. So it isn't like the mentioned jobs just have people sitting around waiting to do their 60 vaccinations.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, cbr663 said:

I like your "hassle factor."  There are a lot of changes that could happen with the cruise experience that could not only make it a big hassle to cruise but also strip it of the things that we personally enjoy.  Until I know what the cruise product will be post COVID-19, we will not be booking a cruise.

That is why those first few cruises (whether they are this August or not) will be so important. Not only do they have to not have any virus related disasters, but also reports back from those initial cruisers have to be that the experience was still a true cruise experience.

[Doubt It]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

That is why those first few cruises (whether they are this August or not) will be so important. Not only do they have to not have any virus related disasters, but also reports back from those initial cruisers have to be that the experience was still a true cruise experience.

 

Exactly.

I am amazed at the number of posters who are buying into the FCC's, lift and shift etc.

As consumers, they are purchasing an unknown.

 

Until the cruise product is well redefined and that I determine if the entire cruise process - air, cruise, air and ports certainty and everything in between, is worthy of my after tax $, and that the Benefits of a cruise far outweigh the costs/risks/hassle - my household and many friends will not book a cruise.

 

 

[Roz]

 

12 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

That's assuming that a) they are not busy doing other extremely essential things -- like saving lives, and b) that everyone will have access to them. 

 

 

When my RN mother worked the polio clinics, they were held in the evening and on Saturday.  There are also retired medical professionals who could be pressed into service.  The US eradicated polio in the 50s; surely we can figure out a way to get large numbers of people vaccinated in the 21st century.

[Ride-The-Waves]

If denied boarding for a medical reason, like a pre-existing condition, the cruise lines offer future cruise credit!

[Ride-The-Waves]

39 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

 

When my RN mother worked the polio clinics, they were held in the evening and on Saturday.  There are also retired medical professionals who could be pressed into service.  The US eradicated polio in the 50s; surely we can figure out a way to get large numbers of people vaccinated in the 21st century.

And that is not considering that 30 percent of Americans polled stated they would NOT accept the vaccine.  If that holds, and if a vaccine is available, the virus could still be active and hiding in many people.

[FRANKIEDNYC]

Do preexisting conditions go away so that you can use a FCC?

[TiogaCruiser]

17 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

In 1960 (about the time that polio and measles vaccines started to be given), the US population was 180 million. Now it is an estimated 330 million.

 

I doubt we have nearly twice as many public health workers now, to organize such a massive undertaking.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by TiogaCruiser

[TiogaCruiser]

17 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Deleted. Sorry. I made a mess.

Edited May 24, 2020 by TiogaCruiser

[TiogaCruiser]

17 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

In 1960 (about the time that polio and measles vaccines started to be given), the US population was 180 million. Now it is an estimated 330 million.

 

I doubt we have nearly twice as many public health workers now, to organize such a massive undertaking.

 

We probably have less, and much more is dedicated to infrastructure and administration vs direct care. 37 years in public health here. 
 

California is a managed care state. PCPs are expected to provide primary care ( including vaccines). Currently laws prevent PH from providing routine vaccines to people who have health insurance (unless they have proof the PCP doesn’t stock the  vaccine). So that may need to change.

 

Another common job category that does injections is MAs. In The majority of private offices I have been to It’s the MA who administers vaccines. Many do not employ RNs or LVNs.
 

As someone already pointed out, pharmacists have been doing vaccines for the past several years. The data is entered into the state database (CAIR), which many providers use.

Edited May 24, 2020 by TiogaCruiser

[TiogaCruiser]

sorry 

Edited May 24, 2020 by TiogaCruiser

[cruisemom42]

39 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

We probably have less, and much more is dedicated to infrastructure and administration vs direct care. 37 years in public health here. 
 

California is a managed care state. PCPs are expected to provide primary care ( including vaccines). Currently laws prevent PH from providing routine vaccines to people who have health insurance (unless they have proof the PCP doesn’t stock the  vaccine). So that may need to change.

 

Another common job category that does injections is MAs. In The majority of private offices I have been to It’s the MA who administers vaccines. Many do not employ RNs or LVNs.
 

As someone already pointed out, pharmacists have been doing vaccines for the past several years. The data is entered into the state database (CAIR), which many providers use.

 

Interesting, thanks. 

 

Yes, I hadn't thought about pharmacists -- a couple of years ago when I needed a tetanus booster, I got one through my pharmacy (someone recommended it). I was surprised it was an option.

 

[USN59-79]

If the vaccine is available, I don't think it would be a problem to get vaccinated.  We have received our annual flu shots at the Costco pharmacy, at a local Navy base where a shot clinic was set up just for that, and at a local pharmacy.  My real concern is what will happen when after a few days at sea one or two people on board come down with symptoms of COVID-19.  Does the whole ship quarantine?  Are we able to disembark at a port?  We went through this on the Westerdam when there was only the perception that someone had tested positive.  It wasn't pleasant staying up til 3 in the morning trying to book a flight home from Bangkok and a few hours later seeing the ship escorted away from Thailand by one of their Navy ships.

[Infi]

If a passenger is denied boarding due to COVID symptoms, shouldn't his/her traveling companion be denied boarding as well? (Even though the companion may not presently be showing symptoms.) We all know how quickly COVID spreads, and how it's all too easy for asymptomatic carriers to spread the illness, or for the illness not to immediately show up in those infected. One would think cruise lines wouldn't want to take a chance denying boarding to one infected person, while still allowing their potentially exposed/infected traveling companion to board and infect others...

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, USN59-79 said:

My real concern is what will happen when after a few days at sea one or two people on board come down with symptoms of COVID-19.  Does the whole ship quarantine?  Are we able to disembark at a port?  We went through this on the Westerdam when there was only the perception that someone had tested positive.  It wasn't pleasant staying up til 3 in the morning trying to book a flight home from Bangkok and a few hours later seeing the ship escorted away from Thailand by one of their Navy ships.

 

I used to have similar worries, but the virus has now spread to virtually every area of the (populated) globe. It's not a matter of containment now, as it was then. It's more a matter of keeping from having huge surges in COVID-19 cases. I suspect by the time cruises resume, even that will become a slightly less pressing concern.

 

Reliable testing as a part of the process would be huge -- not only for embarking passengers, but for disembarkation.

[cruisemom42]

22 minutes ago, Infi said:

If a passenger is denied boarding due to COVID symptoms, shouldn't his/her traveling companion be denied boarding as well? (Even though the companion may not presently be showing symptoms.) We all know how quickly COVID spreads, and how it's all too easy for asymptomatic carriers to spread the illness, or for the illness not to immediately show up in those infected. 

 

A fair point, and I think you're right. Parties traveling together would have to all be subject to the same ruling.

[Infi]

9 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

A fair point, and I think you're right. Parties traveling together would have to all be subject to the same ruling.

 

And, having the same ruling stand for all members of the travel party protects a cruise line from having to split hairs in what will likely already be a very contentious situation. (I'm thinking: person x and y live in the same household while person z lives elsewhere, though they are all in the same travel party - if person y is infected, whom should be allowed to board?)

Edited May 24, 2020 by Infi

[crusinbanjo]

1 hour ago, Infi said:

If a passenger is denied boarding due to COVID symptoms, shouldn't his/her traveling companion be denied boarding as well? (Even though the companion may not presently be showing symptoms.) We all know how quickly COVID spreads, and how it's all too easy for asymptomatic carriers to spread the illness, or for the illness not to immediately show up in those infected. One would think cruise lines wouldn't want to take a chance denying boarding to one infected person, while still allowing their potentially exposed/infected traveling companion to board and infect others...

 But what if they don’t have Covid,  in our area only 8% of those tested for covid, because they have some symptoms, are positive for the virus.  They way I understand what is being proposed is that they are only looking for symptoms.....  you could be bounced for any number of reasons.  I don’t think they have thought this through enough.

[Infi]

4 hours ago, crusinbanjo said:

 But what if they don’t have Covid,  in our area only 8% of those tested for covid, because they have some symptoms, are positive for the virus.  They way I understand what is being proposed is that they are only looking for symptoms.....  you could be bounced for any number of reasons.  I don’t think they have thought this through enough.

 

It's entirely possible that the travelling companion(s) might not have COVID, but I still think cruise lines will take the position of better safe than sorry. After all, why have a rigorous screening process with the high likelihood of upsetting passengers and denying them passage, and then still allow a potentially risky person pass through?

 

I imagine even more ironclad passenger contracts are in the future, allowing lines to bounce passengers for whatever reasons deemed necessary. 

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, crusinbanjo said:

 But what if they don’t have Covid,  in our area only 8% of those tested for covid, because they have some symptoms, are positive for the virus.  They way I understand what is being proposed is that they are only looking for symptoms.....  you could be bounced for any number of reasons.  I don’t think they have thought this through enough.

 

I don't think they bounce you just for having a temperature. That is just a trigger for them to do a more thorough medical evaluation. 

 

At least that is the way it worked in the past with other screenings (e.g., norovirus).

 

[cbr663]

On 5/24/2020 at 8:06 AM, Doubt It said:

 

Exactly.

I am amazed at the number of posters who are buying into the FCC's, lift and shift etc.

As consumers, they are purchasing an unknown.

 

Until the cruise product is well redefined and that I determine if the entire cruise process - air, cruise, air and ports certainty and everything in between, is worthy of my after tax $, and that the Benefits of a cruise far outweigh the costs/risks/hassle - my household and many friends will not book a cruise.

 

 

 

Yes, I agree.  Anyone purchasing a cruise now is purchasing an unknown.  None of the major cruise lines have provided any insight into how they plan to address COVID-19 when they resume operations.  None of us know how the onboard experience will change.  None of the cruise lines have made it known how the different ports will welcome cruise passengers.  And, most important for me - none of the cruise lines have shared how they will prevent cruise ships from being refused docking when someone tests positive onboard.  This information is paramount to me causing again in light of a second wave coming.

[DFD1]

5 hours ago, cbr663 said:

 

Yes, I agree.  Anyone purchasing a cruise now is purchasing an unknown.  None of the major cruise lines have provided any insight into how they plan to address COVID-19 when they resume operations.  None of us know how the onboard experience will change.  None of the cruise lines have made it known how the different ports will welcome cruise passengers.  And, most important for me - none of the cruise lines have shared how they will prevent cruise ships from being refused docking when someone tests positive onboard.  This information is paramount to me causing again in light of a second wave coming.

 

.......Because they don't have any of the answers to the questions you asked.

 

In the meantime, they will try to get as much passenger money as they possible can to ease the financial difficulties the Covid 19 virus has brought them.