How About a Cruise With No Ports for Safety

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

In 2017, Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings President and CEO Frank Del Rio called the vessel the highest yielding in the company's fleet.

 

source:

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23000-hawaii-predicts-no-cruise-passengers-until-second-half-of-2021.html

 

You will note that he chose the term "yield" or "return on investment", not terms like "profitable", "revenue" or "earnings".  Given the reduced price the company paid for the incomplete hull, and the insurance settlement from the German shipyard from the sinking while building, her amortization cost is much lower than other ships in the fleet.  However, the operating costs of the ship, being US flag, are what makes the fares high.  You will find that other cruise lines can offer a 12-14 day cruise from the West Coast to Hawaii for less than the POA charges for a 7 day cruise, even before adding the airfare to get to/from Hawaii.

[gmjc2]

6 hours ago, brisalta said:

 

Why do you keep writing incorrect information?

It is not incorrect!  I reported it as explained to us on several cruises and also in several articles on the internet. Why do you insist that you are right and I am wrong?

The strict interpretation of the written law may appear straight forward but the practical use is more broad because of the cruise ships being foreign flagged.

Enough is enough. Let it go!

[chengkp75]

36 minutes ago, gmjc2 said:

It is not incorrect!  I reported it as explained to us on several cruises and also in several articles on the internet. Why do you insist that you are right and I am wrong?

The strict interpretation of the written law may appear straight forward but the practical use is more broad because of the cruise ships being foreign flagged.

Enough is enough. Let it go!

No one is questioning the "practical use" or the "interpretation of the written law", we are merely pointing out that the usage of Jones Act to passenger ships is incorrect, and the proper act of Congress is the PVSA.  And saying that the "practical use" of the PVSA is "more broad" because of the ships being foreign flagged shows a complete lack of understanding of the Act.

[Thrak]

PVSA (Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886): Passed into law 1886 

 

Jones Act:  Passed into law June 5, 1920

 

[rkacruiser]

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

You will find that other cruise lines can offer a 12-14 day cruise from the West Coast to Hawaii for less than the POA charges for a 7 day cruise, even before adding the airfare to get to/from Hawaii.

 

For the Summer of 2019, friends were considering a POA cruise and invited me to go along.  I did some researching and declined their invitation.  Booking a mid-category veranda stateroom on POA would cost me two times what I paid for my world cruise on a per day basis.  (My friends decided against booking as well and the cost was the primary reason.)

[SNJCruisers]

8 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

For the Summer of 2019, friends were considering a POA cruise and invited me to go along.  I did some researching and declined their invitation.  Booking a mid-category veranda stateroom on POA would cost me two times what I paid for my world cruise on a per day basis.  (My friends decided against booking as well and the cost was the primary reason.)

And to think at some point in the past NCL had 3 different cruises ships doing Hawaii exclusively.

[donaldsc]

20 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

You will note that he chose the term "yield" or "return on investment", not terms like "profitable", "revenue" or "earnings".  Given the reduced price the company paid for the incomplete hull, and the insurance settlement from the German shipyard from the sinking while building, her amortization cost is much lower than other ships in the fleet.  However, the operating costs of the ship, being US flag, are what makes the fares high.  You will find that other cruise lines can offer a 12-14 day cruise from the West Coast to Hawaii for less than the POA charges for a 7 day cruise, even before adding the airfare to get to/from Hawaii.

 

I have not checked it out but how many days do you get to spend in Hawaii and how many days are sea days.  You have to really like sea days to take a cruise from the West Coast to Hawaii.

 

DON

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

I have not checked it out but how many days do you get to spend in Hawaii and how many days are sea days.  You have to really like sea days to take a cruise from the West Coast to Hawaii.

 

DON

A typical cruise from the West Coast is 5 sea days, 5 days in Hawaii, and 5 sea days.  Think of the difference in fuel consumption between having 10 days at 20 knots for 10 days, and then 47 hours steaming in the islands, vs the 60 odd hours of steaming the POA does doing their 7 day cruise with 2 overnights.  Even given the unusual prices that are existing today, a 15 day from San Diego is $1350 pp for an inside, while a 7 day POA is $1250 pp for an inside, plus $300 round trip from San Diego to Honolulu.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

And to think at some point in the past NCL had 3 different cruises ships doing Hawaii exclusively.

While this was an admitted mistake in trying to pump up capacity far too quickly, especially given their crewing problems, pressure from the foreign flag West Coast cruises drove fares down to the point where they were losing $175 million, the last year they had 3 ships there.  Even NCL can offer a longer cruise for less, their repo cruise on the Jewel, which is 11 days one way from Vancouver, gives you 6 days in Hawaii, including an overnight, and starts at $1050 pp, and throw in a one way air Honolulu to Vancouver brings it to $1350 pp, compared to the $1550 cruise/flight for POA.

[Roger88]

No port is safe this days, moreover its hard to distinguish a safe port from the unsafe one. Major ports have very strict regulations regarding the current virus issue and they may offer any kind of ambulance help and etc. I believe that if you want to cruise safe, just pick the route which visits such ports. The majority of them are safe.. in general 

[npcl]

1 hour ago, Roger88 said:

No port is safe this days, moreover its hard to distinguish a safe port from the unsafe one. Major ports have very strict regulations regarding the current virus issue and they may offer any kind of ambulance help and etc. I believe that if you want to cruise safe, just pick the route which visits such ports. The majority of them are safe.. in general 

From most measures the passengers on the ship would pose more risk to the ports than the ports to the passengers on the ship.

[Smokeyham]

This sounds like an interesting idea.  Yes, as we see from comments here, this is not for everyone but likely there are enough people who really enjoy sea days, and are very keen to get back on board, that the idea could work for a couple of cruises.  

 

Hopefully the cruise lines will read this and consider it as an option.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Smokeyham said:

This sounds like an interesting idea.  Yes, as we see from comments here, this is not for everyone but likely there are enough people who really enjoy sea days, and are very keen to get back on board, that the idea could work for a couple of cruises.  

 

Hopefully the cruise lines will read this and consider it as an option.

It's not an option that cruise lines could choose when departing from the US, since it violates visa restrictions.

[Daniel A]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

It's not an option that cruise lines could choose when departing from the US, since it violates visa restrictions.

I'm not sure what you're replying about.  What would violate visa restrictions?   Was Smokeyham referring to the idea of a cruise with no ports?

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

I'm not sure what you're replying about.  What would violate visa restrictions?   Was Smokeyham referring to the idea of a cruise with no ports?

It was my understanding that he was talking about the idea of cruises with no ports.  This would be a "cruise to nowhere", which contrary to common thought here on CC, are still legal per the PVSA, but the reason they are no longer done is that CBP has decided that all foreign crew on a "cruise to nowhere" need to have a B1 work visa, not the C1/D1 crew visa that the crew all have.

[Charles4515]

I'm not sure what you're replying about.  What would violate visa restrictions?   Was Smokeyham referring to the idea of a cruise with no ports?

I am simplifying this but on a cruise to nowhere the workers who are not US citizens would be considered immigrants. So they would need a type of work visa. Those visas have a fee which the cruise lines don’t want to pay but also the visas may be harder to obtain under the current administration.


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[Daniel A]

9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It was my understanding that he was talking about the idea of cruises with no ports.  This would be a "cruise to nowhere", which contrary to common thought here on CC, are still legal per the PVSA, but the reason they are no longer done is that CBP has decided that all foreign crew on a "cruise to nowhere" need to have a B1 work visa, not the C1/D1 crew visa that the crew all have.

Thanks for your response.  So, for a "cruise to nowhere" to happen from Port Everglades, the ship would need to stop at Princess Cay at a minimum?  Can a cruise ship sail from Florida to Saint Thomas without stopping at a foreign location?

[Charles4515]

Thanks for your response.  So, for a "cruise to nowhere" to happen from Port Everglades, the ship would need to stop at Princess Cay at a minimum?  Can a cruise ship sail from Florida to Saint Thomas without stopping at a foreign location?

 

 

If the cruise left from Port Everglades it would have to stop at a foreign port like Princess Cay or some other foreign port. St. Thomas is a US port.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

25 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Thanks for your response.  So, for a "cruise to nowhere" to happen from Port Everglades, the ship would need to stop at Princess Cay at a minimum?  Can a cruise ship sail from Florida to Saint Thomas without stopping at a foreign location?

That is an interesting question, since it would be legal under the PVSA, but without a foreign port call, it essentially doesn't leave the US, so the work visa problem may come into play.  The visa ruling on cruises to nowhere is a State Department/CBP policy, not a law, so it would probably require a ruling if someone tried it.

18 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

 

If the cruise left from Port Everglades it would have to stop at a foreign port like Princess Cay or some other foreign port. St. Thomas is a US port.

 

 

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Yes, it could, sail from PEV to St. Thomas since the PVSA does not apply to the USVI.  The ports in American Samoa, Northern Marianas, and USVI are not considered to be US ports.  This is different than the exemption granted to Puerto Rico, which expires when a US flag operation  starts service to/from Puerto Rico, but the coastwise laws simply do not apply to the USVI.  These three territories are also exempt from the Jones Act.

[Charles4515]

Yes, it could, sail from PEV to St. Thomas since the PVSA does not apply to the USVI.  The ports in American Samoa, Northern Marianas, and USVI are not considered to be US ports.  This is different than the exemption granted to Puerto Rico, which expires when a US flag operation  starts service to/from Puerto Rico, but the coastwise laws simply do not apply to the USVI.  These three territories are also exempt from the Jones Act.

So that means they could go from Florida to St Thomas and St. Croix. Hmm. Could they include San Juan?


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[voljeep]

7 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

and St. Croix

when was the last time Princess sailed to that port ??

[Charles4515]

when was the last time Princess sailed to that port ??

I don’t know about Princess. We were supposed to stop there on Royal Caribbean Jewel of the Seas in 2017 but the port was canceled due to damage from Hurricane Maria.


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[Daniel A]

57 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

So that means they could go from Florida to St Thomas and St. Croix. Hmm. Could they include San Juan?

 

 

It sounds as if they made a stop at Tortola in the BVI, then there shouldn't be any worker's visa issues.

[kangforpres]

Well I think Cunard and the QM2 have this market cornered, It's a lovely trip 6 nights TA, but right now you would be sailing from one Covid 19 hotspot to another.  And the UK has a 14 day quarantine on new arrivals.

[Smokeyham]

33 minutes ago, kangforpres said:

Well I think Cunard and the QM2 have this market cornered, It's a lovely trip 6 nights TA, but right now you would be sailing from one Covid 19 hotspot to another.  And the UK has a 14 day quarantine on new arrivals.

It would be great if Cunard offered a (very slow) 14 day Transatlantic crossing.  This could also meet the 14-day quarantine restriction and be a very pleasant way to travel.