How About a Cruise With No Ports for Safety

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

So that means they could go from Florida to St Thomas and St. Croix. Hmm. Could they include San Juan?


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No, because San Juan is considered a US port, and while there is an exemption for Puerto Rico for starting and ending in different US ports, it would still require a foreign port call.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, Daniel A said:

It sounds as if they made a stop at Tortola in the BVI, then there shouldn't be any worker's visa issues.

But then it would not be a "cruise without ports" or a "cruise to nowhere".  But then again, going from Florida to the USVI isn't a "cruise without ports" that the OP suggested.  And, as I think about it, I'm not sure that a round trip Miami/St. Thomas/Miami would be legal since that would be a closed loop US cruise possibly without a foreign port, since I'm not sure what the actual legal designation of the US territories that are not covered by the PVSA is, since they are part of the US.

Edited May 31, 2020 by chengkp75

[Daniel A]

45 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

But then it would not be a "cruise without ports" or a "cruise to nowhere".  But then again, going from Florida to the USVI isn't a "cruise without ports" that the OP suggested.  And, as I think about it, I'm not sure that a round trip Miami/St. Thomas/Miami would be legal since that would be a closed loop US cruise possibly without a foreign port, since I'm not sure what the actual legal designation of the US territories that are not covered by the PVSA is, since they are part of the US.

From the Code of Federal Regulations (CFRs):

§ 4.80a Coastwise transportation of passengers.

 

(a) For the purposes of this section, the following terms will have the meaning set forth below:

 

(1) Coastwise port means a port in the U.S., its territories, or possessions embraced within the coastwise laws.

 

(2) Nearby foreign port means any foreign port in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao). A port in the U.S. Virgin Islands shall be treated as a nearby foreign port.

[chengkp75]

Thanks, I know I read that, but the mind isn't what it used to be.

[rkacruiser]

On 5/31/2020 at 5:57 PM, Smokeyham said:

It would be great if Cunard offered a (very slow) 14 day Transatlantic crossing.  This could also meet the 14-day quarantine restriction and be a very pleasant way to travel.

 

 

 

Why just Cunard?  I'd be pleased to sail on a ship of several cruise lines whose product I enjoy.  

[Smokeyham]

16 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Why just Cunard?  I'd be pleased to sail on a ship of several cruise lines whose product I enjoy.  

You are quite right......  It would be nice to have many options to do a Transatlantic crossing.     I particularly want to get to Britain!  🙂

 

[SNJCruisers]

1 hour ago, Smokeyham said:

You are quite right......  It would be nice to have many options to do a Transatlantic crossing.     I particularly want to get to Britain!  🙂

 

How about an eastbound TA, combined with  a week on land and then a westbound TA?  Good bucket list option 😀

[RocketMan275]

12 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

How about an eastbound TA, combined with  a week on land and then a westbound TA?  Good bucket list option 😀

Only if  you can put up with Cunard.

[Charles4515]

Only if  you can put up with Cunard.

 

I sailed Cunard one time. It was fun for something different but the QM2 is not a cruise ship. It is an ocean liner. It is somewhat like a museum. One time was enough for me.

 

Also I would point out if you do an eastbound then the next westbound would be the next week. Then west two weeks again. So two weeks on land.

 

 

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[WAMarathoner]

On 5/23/2020 at 3:57 PM, memoak said:

The ports are not the issue.  I love as many sea days as I can get. The issue is that without a vaccine there is no way to stay safe on a cruise. No way to distance etc. Once we have a vaccine I would believe you will be required to show proof just as you need to show shots for yellow fever or malaria 

I doubt it unless a vaccine that was as effective as yellow fever's was developed (not going to happen).  Plus, I think the latest poll showed that almost half (?) of Americans would not take the vaccine for one reason or another.

 

The issue is that there is no way to stay safe IN LIFE.  Use the same safety precautions you use for Noro (no public bathrooms; dining room rather than buffet, etc).

 

I wouldn't mind a "cruise to nowhere" IF the price was right.  It would have to be significantly lower than one with ports; basically a cruise to rest and sleep.

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, WAMarathoner said:

I doubt it unless a vaccine that was as effective as yellow fever's was developed (not going to happen).  Plus, I think the latest poll showed that almost half (?) of Americans would not take the vaccine for one reason or another.

 

The issue is that there is no way to stay safe IN LIFE.  Use the same safety precautions you use for Noro (no public bathrooms; dining room rather than buffet, etc).

 

I wouldn't mind a "cruise to nowhere" IF the price was right.  It would have to be significantly lower than one with ports; basically a cruise to rest and sleep.

I do think that it is very likely we will see an International move (with all travel and cruising) towards requiring a "shot record" for multiple diseases.  Just like 9/11 changed the travel industry so will COVID-19.  As to those who are anti-vaccine, they are going to find it more difficult to live a normal life.   The backlash from COVID-19 will likely see a resurgence in mandatory vaccinations for many things (including schools, cruises, entry into many countries, airlines, etc).   Even if cruise lines did not want to enforce vaccine requirements we predict that a stampede of countries requiring it for entry will force the cruise line's hand.  What vaccines will be required?  Hard to be sure but we would expect, at a minimum, the latest flu shot, measles/mumps/rubella. t-Dap, and COVID-19 (if it exists).    I still have my old shot record from Air Force days and it is hard to believe I got that many shots.

 

Folks that want to continue their anti-vaccine ways will just have to learn to live their life without cruising or international travel.

 

Hank

[caribill]

8 hours ago, WAMarathoner said:

 I think the latest poll showed that almost half (?) of Americans would not take the vaccine for one reason or another.

 

 

Probably because many of them want to wait until their is a vaccine proven to be safe and effective.

 

Look at how many other things that were rushed to market due to Covid-19 have turned out to not perform as desired, from Covid-testing kits to antibody tests N95 masks.

 

There is no way a vaccine that makes it to market this year or early next year will have been proven to be safe. There is a reason that successful vaccines take years to bring to market, adequate testing.

[Daniel A]

10 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I do think that it is very likely we will see an International move (with all travel and cruising) towards requiring a "shot record" for multiple diseases.  Just like 9/11 changed the travel industry so will COVID-19.  As to those who are anti-vaccine, they are going to find it more difficult to live a normal life.   The backlash from COVID-19 will likely see a resurgence in mandatory vaccinations for many things (including schools, cruises, entry into many countries, airlines, etc).   Even if cruise lines did not want to enforce vaccine requirements we predict that a stampede of countries requiring it for entry will force the cruise line's hand.  What vaccines will be required?  Hard to be sure but we would expect, at a minimum, the latest flu shot, measles/mumps/rubella. t-Dap, and COVID-19 (if it exists).    I still have my old shot record from Air Force days and it is hard to believe I got that many shots.

 

Folks that want to continue their anti-vaccine ways will just have to learn to live their life without cruising or international travel.

 

Hank

As long as the vaccine produces detectable antibodies, and antibody efficacy is well documented, maybe a positive antibody certificate would suffice for those who don't get the vaccine but still have the antibodies from previous infection.  Such a document might also replace a vaccination certificate if the vaccination produces the antibodies.

 

As an alternative, maybe passports could contain an immunity endorsement if the State Department would participate in receiving the necessary documentation.  Just a thought...

Edited June 4, 2020 by Daniel A

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

As long as the vaccine produces detectable antibodies, and antibody efficacy is well documented, maybe a positive antibody certificate would suffice for those who don't get the vaccine but still have the antibodies from previous infection.  Such a document might also replace a vaccination certificate if the vaccination produces the antibodies.

 

As an alternative, maybe passports could contain an immunity endorsement if the State Department would participate in receiving the necessary documentation.  Just a thought...

I think you are making many leaps of faith :).  There is actually evidence that even folks with anti-bodies can again develop COVID-19 not to mention nobody yet knows how long antibodies might even be helpful.  Consider the common cold (many cases are caused by a Coronovirus) where the antibodies are only useful for a few months.   And then there is the issue of the flu (also quite common on cruise ships) where we are likely to see ports refusing docking to ships with even a single case of the flu.  This actually happened in Barbados.  

 

Turning Passports into a duel Passport/Vaccination certificate is certainly a possibility,  But just keep in mind that vaccinations can sometimes be good for long term (i.e. Yellow Fever) and very short term (i.e. flu) and even medium term (i.e. D-Tap).  There will need to be some international cooperation to come up with a reasonable approach and in todays world international cooperation is a dream rather then reality.  

 

My fear for cruising is that ship's are a very easy target.   Just consider ports that might only accept a ship if the ship's physician certifies that there is not a single respiratory infection aboard.   The reality is that on any cruise (especially longer voyages) there are always some folks who get sick and URI's (often caused by an unknown virus) are very common.  How many folks will take a cruise vacation when they must fear that a single sick person (on the ship) could put them into isolation for weeks, cancel their ports, and have them returning home weeks later then intended.  And yet that is today's reality.

 

Hank

[Daniel A]

6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I think you are making many leaps of faith :).  There is actually evidence that even folks with anti-bodies can again develop COVID-19 not to mention nobody yet knows how long antibodies might even be helpful.  

 

Hank

Hank-

Thank you for your response.

 

I did qualify that antibody efficacy would need to be well documented.  As an aside, isn't the goal of vaccinations is to produce antibodies?  So if the antibodies don't prevent re-infection why would vaccines even be developed?  

[Hlitner]

7 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Hank-

Thank you for your response.

 

I did qualify that antibody efficacy would need to be well documented.  As an aside, isn't the goal of vaccinations is to produce antibodies?  So if the antibodies don't prevent re-infection why would vaccines even be developed?  

All true.  But my work with the HIV/Aids epidemic taught me that there are many times when we (the experts) know a lot less then we think.  To quote Dr. Fauci (from an AIDS conference many years ago) "We don't know what we don't know!  That is called "science" which is about proving theories rather then speculation.  By the way, I heard a very interesting report last week about problems with COVID-19 anti-bodies.  It seems that many of the children who have developed heart and other COVID-19 related conditions do test positive for anti-bodies but not for the virus.  While most of this is not understood it is now feared that the Kawasaki related syndrome (which can be fatal) is related to the bodies response to antibodies....not the actual virus.  One expert theorized that this might mean that any COVID-19 vaccine could be contraindicated for children.   The mystery of this virus continues.

 

Hank

[caribill]

16 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 

 

Turning Passports into a duel Passport/Vaccination certificate is certainly a possibility,  But just keep in mind that vaccinations can sometimes be good for long term (i.e. Yellow Fever) and very short term (i.e. flu) and even medium term (i.e. D-Tap).  There will need to be some international cooperation to come up with a reasonable approach and in todays world international cooperation is a dream rather then reality.  

 

 

 

For those who get the Yellow Fever vaccination there is an International Certificate of Vaccination that was designed by the WHO and is accepted world wide. If a Covid-19 vaccination needs to be documented, it can be added to the same form.

[Hlitner]

5 hours ago, caribill said:

 

For those who get the Yellow Fever vaccination there is an International Certificate of Vaccination that was designed by the WHO and is accepted world wide. If a Covid-19 vaccination needs to be documented, it can be added to the same form.

In a sense we would be moving forward to the past.  When I was in the US Air Force (60s - 70s) we carried a "shot record" which was a thin yellow booklet.  The first few pages were the International Vaccination Certificate which was recognized around the world and had info about my Small Pox Vaccination (no longer needed).  But that same booklet then had many extra pages (similar to the Visa section of our Passports) where every single shot/vaccination was entered.  I had to have that booklet with me no matter where I was stationed in the world and would take it whenever I was getting a shot so it would be updated.  Everything from Cholera (every 6 months) to tetanus and flu shots were entered into that document.   Because of my work in the Air Force I had to be ready to go anywhere in the world at a moment's notice.  At one time I had nearly 20 different vaccines.  

 

I think it is reasonable to bring back such a system, although these days it could certainly be some kind of computerized record.   It would quickly become a required document for any International travel and with the proper legislation could also be used by domestic hotels and airlines as a requirement.   The anti vaccine folks would be left out, but it would be their own choice.  

 

Hank

[PrincessLuver]

7 hours ago, caribill said:

 

For those who get the Yellow Fever vaccination there is an International Certificate of Vaccination that was designed by the WHO and is accepted world wide. If a Covid-19 vaccination needs to be documented, it can be added to the same form.

 

Agree.....we have this International Certificate of Vaccination with several vaccinations on it besides Yellow Fever so it should be very easy to add a COVID-19 vaccination record if there ever is a vaccine.

[Iamcruzin]

I book Princess for the itineraries alone. They lack any type of entertainment and those new ships with the postage stamp size balconies and poorly designed staterooms are a deal breaker. I would sooner sail back and forth on the Staten Island Ferry for free or watch paint dry.  I might be persuaded to sail without ports of call on one the Oasis class Royal Caribbean ships even though I hate those big ships. At least they have better entertainment and more comfortable staterooms. 

[WAMarathoner]

On 6/4/2020 at 6:09 AM, Daniel A said:

As an alternative, maybe passports could contain an immunity endorsement if the State Department would participate in receiving the necessary documentation.  Just a thought...

That would likely violate HIPAA.

 

I know IRL of not a single person who has given their child every single vaccination recommended by the CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/schedules/index.html).  Everyone draws a line; it's just not at the same place for everyone.  For instance, I don't of anyone who got their boys an HPV shot.

 

There's a 20-year rule for effectiveness.  By all means, if you want the vaccine, go for it.  You'll ostensibly be protected -- which means, in part, protected against those who don't want (or can't take) it.

[cruzsnooze]

The problem with adding the Covid vaccine is that it isn't known if the immunity would be short term if even effective. The point I was making originally was that assuming everyone who boards the ship was screened as best as we know how and didn't allow disembarkation at any ports (but stopped long enough to satisfy the PSVA) might be of interest in the next year prior to a vaccine being released.

Edited June 5, 2020 by cruzsnooze

[memoak]

I still carry the yellow sheet with vaccinations when I travel along with my passport

[Thrak]

3 hours ago, memoak said:

I still carry the yellow sheet with vaccinations when I travel along with my passport

 

I don't even know how to get a full record of vaccinations.  Of course when I was a kid we got "vaccinated" by catching every dang disease that came along. Measles? Check. German Measles (Rubella)? Check. Chicken Pox? Check. Mumps? Check. Sheesh... We did get the polio sugar cubes in school though. I think we got those twice and I do have the smallpox vaccination scar on my arm. My wife made sure our kids were all vaccinated.

[katisdale]

My daughter (fewer vaccines when she was young) and my grandchildren have received every vaccine recommended. I have a long history with vaccines including getting the Salk vaccine in the only state (Ohio) that did a double blind study. I am currently in a study looking at a vaccine for clostridium difficile. I just looked at my yellow book from my time in the USAF. We sure had to have a lot of vaccines to serve.