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Okay, so I know this is not an NCL-specific topic, but we had a discussion called "masks" so I'm hoping we can discuss this here.

 

We all realize (I hope) that cruising cannot resume until we can stop or manage the spread the Covid-19 virus.  As the country is starting to reopen and testing is more readily available (either Covid-19 virus testing or Covid-19 antibody testing), I'm curious as to how many "non-symptomatic" people have proactively gotten tested for the virus. We now know that 30% of people who have/had Covid have NO (as in ZERO) symptoms.  Even without having symptoms, you are still contagious and can infect others.

 

As I watch the crowds of people on TV celebrating Memorial Day, I can't help but wonder how many of those people knew they were going into those crowds but still never bothered to consider that they might have the virus (but have no symptoms.)  Many of the people I saw on TV were not even wearing masks.

 

It really made me think about cruising and people's behavior in general.  Even if the cruise line doesn't insist that you get tested before embarkation, would you do so before cruising? Are you testing NOW before going out since restrictions are lifting?  Why or why not?

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According to the CDC as of May 22, total tests in the USA are over 13 million. The CDC doesn't readily identify these as serology tests or total test but let's assume these are serology tests alone. If these reflect one person getting one test once (which it doesn't because first responders need to be regular tested) that amounts to 4% of the US population.

 

We have a very long way to go to get to a testing and tracing regimen that will allow at-risk people to resume any sort of normal life.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

We all realize (I hope) that cruising cannot resume until we can stop or manage the spread the Covid-19 virus.

 

Unfortunately, from reading these boards, I think there are a lot of folks who don't realize that.  They seem ready to jump on a ship right now if they could, and seem to be living in an alternate universe in which cruising will resume as soon as August.  (That date was earlier until the cruise lines officially cancelled those months.) 

Edited by Turtles06

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In my post above I stated serology, which is the blood test for antibodies when I meant the test for active virus in the body. Please interpret my comments in that light.

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4 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

 

Unfortunately, from reading these boards, I think there are a lot of folks who don't realize that.  They seem ready to jump on a ship right now if they could, and seem to be living in an alternate universe in which cruising will resume as soon as August.  (That date was earlier until the cruise lines officially cancelled those months.) 

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/american-cruise-lines-plans-to-restart-operations-june-20.html

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38 minutes ago, Paul Bogle said:

We have a very long way to go to get to a testing and tracing regimen that will allow at-risk people to resume any sort of normal life.

As long as you are recognizing that the testing is not for the "at risk" people primarily, the testing is for the "healthy" people. 

 

I think this is a point that many misunderstand.  Just from reading these boards it seems that people who think they are in a low risk category and are generally healthy don't feel the need to wear masks.  What they don't understand is that they could be carriers of Covid-19 (albeit with NO symptoms), and so they are wearing masks or getting tested to protect OTHER people,  not themselves.

 

I guess my question is one of social awareness and responsibility.  If you knew you could be a SILENT carrier of a potential deadly disease, and there was a simple test to confirm whether or not you were carrying the disease, would you take the test if no one forced you  before venturing into a group of people?

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Testing for me would be a YES, all about convenience, but no downside.  But I will NOT wait in a line for hours as I have no symptoms and of low risk profile.

 

If I could get an anti-body test, I would either for active infection or past exposure.  That is useful to me to access what ADDITIONAL risk I want to take.

 

The test for virus as often as I could, it would allow me to know if I was asymptomatic and need to isolate to avoid transmitting to high risk individuals.

 

 

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1 minute ago, pcakes122 said:

I guess my question is one of social awareness and responsibility.  If you knew you could be a SILENT carrier of a potential deadly disease, and there was a simple test to confirm whether or not you were carrying the disease, would you take the test if no one forced you  before venturing into a group of people?

 

Unfortunately there isn't and likely never will be a simple and quick way to discover if someone is a "SILENT" carrier. The test for active virus is the mucus swab test which requires a lab and time to process. 

 

Only tracing of positive virus tests can ring fence active virus. This requires a robust regimen of active virus testing combined with an ability to trace contacts a positive test result had.

 

The antibody test is quick and simple. It provides valuable information also. It tells us who had the disease and perhaps isn't at risk of being a carrier. Both tests are necessary until treatments or vaccination can make at risk communities safer.

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Given the trouble some governments have had in ramping up testing and providing rapid results I can’t see too many of them providing testing to people that have no symptoms and have had no known contact with an active case. 
 

In Ireland at the peak we had over a week’s wait for test results and up to 2 weeks to even get tested. Now it’s about 48hours to get a test result and we’re still sending samples to Germany for processing.  
 

my doctor and his family were among the first cases here and they were all asymptomatic throughout. 

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2 minutes ago, Paul Bogle said:

Unfortunately there isn't and likely never will be a simple and quick way to discover if someone is a "SILENT" carrier. The test for active virus is the mucus swab test which requires a lab and time to process.

This may vary in different parts of the country.  I live in New Jersey and I've already had 4 Covid-19 swab tests (3 were positive and the last one was negative - yay!)   All 4 were done at a drive-thru facility.  The first test I had was in March and it did take 3 hours sitting in the car.  I took the test on a Wednesday and I had results on Saturday.   My latest test was last week.  It was 37 minutes (I made a point of noting) from the time I pulled in to the time I pulled out.  That test was also on a Wednesday and I had results Thursday morning at 9 o'clock.

 

 So it is getting better and easier!

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That is good news. Still I do not think testing for active virus in real time will ever be practical for determining who can get on a cruise ship or an airplane much less a NJ transit train or PATH or the New York subway.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Paul Bogle said:

That is good news. Still I do not think testing for active virus in real time will ever be practical for determining who can get on a cruise ship or an airplane much less a NJ transit train or PATH or the New York subway.

If that's true don't you think it's even more important for people to wear masks?  If you are seemingly healthy but unable to easily get a test to confirm that you don't have the virus, isn't wearing a mask to protect others the minimum you would want to do?   This is what I don't understand about people who don't want to wear masks.

Edited by pcakes122

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Just now, pcakes122 said:

It's that's true don't you think it's even more important for people to wear masks?  If you are seemingly healthy but unable to easily get a test to confirm that you don't have the virus, isn't wearing a mask to protect others the minimum you would want to do?   This is what I don't understand about people who don't want to wear masks.

 

Where did you get the idea I oppose wearing masks?

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Just now, Paul Bogle said:

 

Where did you get the idea I oppose wearing masks?

Where did you get the idea that I said that you were opposed to masks? 

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Besides the fact that in many areas it still is not easy to get a test, it doesn't make a lot of sense to get a test if you have not been exposed.  That's because a negative test just says that at the moment in time it was taken, you were not infected.  Unless one is willing and able to get daily tests, random testing is not what is going to stop the spread.  The way to stop the spread from asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic cases (you are contagious for about two days before symptoms appear) is for everyone to assume they are an asymptomatic person and behave accordingly.

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1 minute ago, gizfish said:

Besides the fact that in many areas it still is not easy to get a test, it doesn't make a lot of sense to get a test if you have not been exposed.  That's because a negative test just says that at the moment in time it was taken, you were not infected.  Unless one is willing and able to get daily tests, random testing is not what is going to stop the spread.  The way to stop the spread from asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic cases (you are contagious for about two days before symptoms appear) is for everyone to assume they are an asymptomatic person and behave accordingly.

Exactly. This is what I'm saying!!  It boggles my mind that people do not want to wear masks.  If you read through the mask discussion on this forum, you are going to see that MANY people do not think they are necessary,  And from watching the news today I can see that many people in the general population feel the same way.

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4 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

It's that's true don't you think it's even more important for people to wear masks?  If you are seemingly healthy but unable to easily get a test to confirm that you don't have the virus, isn't wearing a mask to protect others the minimum you would want to do?   This is what I don't understand about people who don't want to wear masks.

 

2 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

Where did you get the idea that I said that you were opposed to masks? 

 

I guess it was all the you's in your response to me.

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58 minutes ago, Paul Bogle said:

 

Have you booked?

no i havent . im not into river cruises so much. 

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Research into these, more comfortable, secure than N95.

 

Virustatic Shield 

142A50F6-4143-4044-9015-FA0E1FDA83C4.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

As I understand the virus now, masks in public will be necessary until:

 

1) a vaccine ends this pandemic.

2) It is reliably demonstrated that those with antibodies cannot spread the virus. In such case those with antibodies are exempt.

 

I'm saddened but not surprised that some people oppose wearing masks. I do think that when the WHO, CDC and other authoritative bodies recommended against wearing them as late as March, then slowly did an about face with the explanation being it was a noble lie. There are no noble lies. Lying spreads distrust.

Edited by Paul Bogle

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4 minutes ago, Paul Bogle said:

 

 

I guess it was all the you's in your response to me.

In some of those instances I was referring to the general public and in others I was asking your opinion (in other words "dont you agree?) omg lol.  

 

I don't want to give an English lesson here but look up the definition of "you".  It can either mean "you personally" or "people in general" based on context.

 

Maybe you took it personally because that's the way you feel? But we never discussed at any point your personal view on masks so I certainly was not commenting on that.

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4 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

no i havent . im not into river cruises so much. 

 

I'm not interested in river cruising on the Mississippi or Columbia river. Cruising from Amsterdam to Budapest was exquisite. Let me know when those cruises start again.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

In some of those instances I was referring to the general public and in others I was asking your opinion (in other words "dont you agree?) omg lol.  

 

I don't want to give an English lesson here but look up the definition of "you".  It can either mean "you personally" or "people in general" based on context.

 

Maybe you took it personally because that's the way you feel? But we never discussed at any point your personal view on masks so I certainly was not commenting on that.

 

Clearly it was a misunderstanding. 

 

Since second and third person use the same pronouns in our language I try to avoid using "you" when I quote someone unless I am directing it at whom I quote.

Edited by Paul Bogle

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8 minutes ago, Paul Bogle said:

 

Clearly it was a misunderstanding.

It was and I apologize if it came across otherwise!

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