Do you want cruising to return to what it was?

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I do not choose any cruise ship “FOR” any vacation.  I do choose QM2 as a way to come home from what is the closest thing I have to “elegant vacations” : my visits with rather formal sister’s family in England.  I choose QM2 (which is perhaps one of the most formal ships sailing) - not for her formality, but because of the fact that she offers the most comfortable way to come home from frequent trips to visit that formal family in England.  She sails from Southampton - perhaps three hours away from my sister’s house, and she lets me off in Brooklyn - about an hour away from my house.

 

it is purely coincidental that the ideal way to cross the Atlantic happens to be similarly formal to the week or so preceding that crossing.  Frankly, I would prefer a less formal shipboard environment — but the convenience of the itinerary makes sense.

 

Well, it sure sounds like you are smelling the roses to me.   Well done.  

[navybankerteacher]

30 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Well, it sure sounds like you are smelling the roses to me.   Well done.  

Better roses than skunk cabbage — and small ships than megas.

[KnowTheScore]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 1:20 AM, ilikeanswers said:

do think this Pandemic is an opportunity for a reset to make changes that in your opinion would improve the cruise industry? And if so what changes would you like to see? 

 

The industry HAS to reset in order to survive at all going forward.  I still very much struggle to see how it's going to cope.

 

The "cosmetic" stuff like abolishing self-service buffets and having less passengers is frankly pretty superficial.

 

The issue they still have to resolve is the power that the World Health Organisation and other authoritative bodies have to force the cruise lines to operate in a certain way and in particular forcing them to respond to on-board cases of COVID-19 (or any future killer virus) in draconian ways.

 

The cruise lines can limit the number of passengers all they want, can test people as often as they want, but if the bottom line remains that when ONE person presents with COVID-19 symptoms on-board then EVERY other passenger gets quarantined to their cabins for 2 weeks or taken off to some unknown quarantine facility in some foreign port and/or then flown home and then more quarantine, then sorry but I won't be cruising again.

 

As far as I currently know, this fundamental show stopping problem has not yet been resolved (if it has please someone enlighten me).

 

Very few people are going to set foot on a ship again if the potential for a "Diamond Princess" experience still exists.   Cruise lines are going to have to underwrite in their customer contracts that such protocols will NOT happen again.

 

The only real solution is to let people choose to take their chances with the virus.  Treat it like Flu, if someone gets COVID-19 on-board, remove them from the ship immediately but let everyone else get on with their holiday.

 

Until we get to that point, it remains Game Over for the industry imho.

 

.

Edited June 1, 2020 by KnowTheScore

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

The industry HAS to reset in order to survive at all going forward.  I still very much struggle to see how it's going to cope.

 

The "cosmetic" stuff like abolishing self-service buffets and having less passengers is frankly pretty superficial.

 

The issue they still have to resolve is the power that the World Health Organisation and other authoritative bodies have to force the cruise lines to operate in a certain way and in particular forcing them to respond to on-board cases of COVID-19 (or any future killer virus) in draconian ways.

 

The cruise lines can limit the number of passengers all they want, can test people as often as they want, but if the bottom line remains that when ONE person presents with COVID-19 symptoms on-board then EVERY other passenger gets quarantined to their cabins for 2 weeks or taken off to some unknown quarantine facility in some foreign port and/or then flown home and then more quarantine, then sorry but I won't be cruising again.

 

As far as I currently know, this fundamental show stopping problem has not yet been resolved (if it has please someone enlighten me).

 

Very few people are going to set foot on a ship again if the potential for a "Diamond Princess" experience still exists.   Cruise lines are going to have to underwrite in their customer contracts that such protocols will NOT happen again.

 

The only real solution is to let people choose to take their chances with the virus.  Treat it like Flu, if someone gets COVID-19 on-board, remove them from the ship immediately but let everyone else get on with their holiday.

 

Until we get to that point, it remains Game Over for the industry imho.

 

.

The problem with "remove them immediately but let everyone else get on with their holiday" is who is going to take them.

 

Other than that I do believe you have pointed out the fundamental problem.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

The problem with "remove them immediately but let everyone else get on with their holiday" is who is going to take them.

 

Other than that I do believe you have pointed out the fundamental problem.

And, what will they do with them if they do take them?  How many critically ill people can be cared for in some of the smaller, less developed ports of call.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

And, what will they do with them if they do take them?  How many critically ill people can be cared for in some of the smaller, less developed ports of call.

Which is exactly why they will not want to take them.

[clo]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Which is exactly why they will not want to take them.

I honestly don't know who is more stupid or blind to the facts? The cruise lines or their passengers. Is someone actually willing to die or kill others so they can go on a freaking vacation?

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, clo said:

I honestly don't know who is more stupid or blind to the facts? The cruise lines or their passengers. Is someone actually willing to die or kill others so they can go on a freaking vacation?

Reading all the posts (and your responses to them) in would you cruise without a vaccine, it seems there are many who would be willing to die or kill others for a vacation. Sad, but true.

[Joebucks]

On 5/31/2020 at 10:50 PM, Silver Sweethearts said:

 

Our idea of a vacation is to be pampered. We like elegant cruise ships. Regent, Silversea, Seabourn and so on have done a pretty good job at providing an elegant setting (though more casual now than in years past).  We figure we can be casual for free when we hang out at home though, so if we are going on a cruise vacation we want it to take us away from the craziness of every day life.  It's a breather for some yet obviously not for everyone, but you sure can get used to it.   

 

That's the beauty of vacationing, there's an experience for everyone!

 

Perhaps my tastes will evolve and change, but I do doubt it when it comes to elegance. That's the absolute last thing I'm looking for on vacation. No one where in my trip am I excited about a suit and a tie. Give me some shorts, Hawaiian shirt, flip flops, a bourbon, and some good times. That's what it's all about, to me at least.

[clo]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

it seems there are many who would be willing to die or kill others for a vacation. Sad, but true.

Infuriating. Outrageous. And, yeah, I guess sad that they're willing to kill others to indulge their silliness.

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Reading all the posts (and your responses to them) in would you cruise without a vaccine, it seems there are many who would be willing to die or kill others for a vacation. Sad, but true.

 

16 minutes ago, clo said:

Infuriating. Outrageous. And, yeah, I guess sad that they're willing to kill others to indulge their silliness.

 

I think the rhetoric is getting a little heated. This is not a dichotomous situation with one right and one wrong answer -- it's not as if someone's boarding a ship with the intention of killing others. 

 

It's all a matter of risk assessment. Some see the risks as high; others as low. If those cruising agree there is risk involved and are willing to take that risk -- what then?

 

If the risk is so great, then shouldn't our oversight agencies continue to step in and "pause" cruising for the time being?  If they agree to let cruising go forward, what does that say about the overall risks?

 

There is much we don't know about COVID and its risks also -- how many people exposed will only get mild illness (or none at all)?  What does the immunity picture look like following infection?

 

There are risks associated with boarding a ship without a flu vaccination, and of healthy people getting the flu and exposing others -- who may be less healthy, older, immune-compromised -- to the infection.  Do we need to say absolutely that anyone boarding a cruise ship without a flu vaccine is then "willing to die or kill others for a vacation"?

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by cruisemom42

[ontheweb]

22 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

And, what will they do with them if they do take them?  How many critically ill people can be cared for in some of the smaller, less developed ports of call.

So, we have established that you cannot keep sick people on the ships and create floating petri dishes. And we have established that ports either cannot or will not take them. What is left?

 

Throw them overboard. The new cruise contract will have to have a clause that says if you test positive after the ship sails, you must walk the plank.

[cruznjan]

On 5/31/2020 at 6:19 PM, cruisemom42 said:

I don't see the point of indulging in nostalgia -- I have no wish to see cruise lines go back to some golden era. But I think the OP rather meant to ask whether we want to see cruising continue as it was before COVID-19 or do we hope the lines will make some changes that may be permanent...

 

Personally, I not convinced that long-term changes will occur as a result of this, at least not if it is up to the cruise lines themselves. They will do what they can, within the (absolute) limit of the law in order to make as much profit as possible. In my opinion, that is neither a good nor sustainable way to operate, but many of my fellow citizens will say that this is simply capitalism. 

I'm  not indulging in anything. I just answered the question.

[bosslaydee]

2 hours ago, clo said:

Infuriating. Outrageous. And, yeah, I guess sad that they're willing to kill others to indulge their silliness.

How do you find that people choosing to go on an obviously crowded vacation during social distancing would be killing others?
Not everyone dies from covid. And the ones who do (elderly and immunocompromised) should stay home.
No one can be "killing" people who choose to leave their homes.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, cruznjan said:

I'm  not indulging in anything. I just answered the question.

 

I didn't refer to anyone or quote anyone. 

 

I was speaking solely for myself.

[Cruzaholic41]

At this point, I want cruising to return to what it was so we can depart from the small handful who have totally hijacked this board. 

[ColeThornton]

9 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

At this point, I want cruising to return to what it was so we can depart from the small handful who have totally hijacked this board. 

 

Amen to that.   It gets old, doesn't it?

[ldubs]

10 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

At this point, I want cruising to return to what it was so we can depart from the small handful who have totally hijacked this board. 

 

55 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

Amen to that.   It gets old, doesn't it?

 

Like the kid in the backseat constantly saying "are we there yet".   😋  

[clo]

On 6/2/2020 at 10:47 AM, bosslaydee said:

Not everyone dies from covid. And the ones who do (elderly and immunocompromised) should stay home.

I guess you've not kept up with the latest data. 30+% of patient are between 20 and 40. And more and more children are getting the wicked version. Oh, right, and one can be asymptomatic and contagious. Sounds to me like everyone should stay home based on that alone. Right?

[clo]

11 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

Like the kid in the backseat constantly saying "are we there yet".   😋  

ldubs, I do see the accusation of hijacking coming from the cruise 'addicts' (self-described).

 

Oh just saw on the news the idea of the RNC convention being moved out of NC due to huge numbers of people all being together in relatively small places.  Hmm.

[bosslaydee]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

I guess you've not kept up with the latest data. 30+% of patient are between 20 and 40. And more and more children are getting the wicked version. Oh, right, and one can be asymptomatic and contagious. Sounds to me like everyone should stay home based on that alone. Right?

Everyone IS staying home based on that. Most of the world was under lock down. Some countries with unfortunate government are stuck inside at gun point.

[clo]

4 minutes ago, bosslaydee said:

Everyone IS staying home based on that. Most of the world was under lock down. Some countries with unfortunate government are stuck inside at gun point.

 

On 6/2/2020 at 10:47 AM, bosslaydee said:

Not everyone dies from covid. And the ones who do (elderly and immunocompromised) should stay home.

I was referring to this comment of yours. So I guess you agree with me that cruising is treacherous should it resume before/if there's a solid vaccine. So MAYBE two years.

[bosslaydee]

1 minute ago, clo said:

 

I was referring to this comment of yours. So I guess you agree with me that cruising is treacherous should it resume before/if there's a solid vaccine. So MAYBE two years.

My position through covid and on CC has always been this: the highest percentage of deaths are the elderly, people with pre existing conditions and the immunocompromised. I feel they should protect themselves above all else.
But ANYONE old, young, big, small, should focus on their health. Covid is a mystery of sorts and not everyone knows everything. So if anyone feels worried their life could be in danger, they should stay away from people. Especially in this time where its accepted and accommodated. Cruising is a luxury in general (covid or not) so its not a necessity. Taking a break is not the end of the world. Take a different type of vacation, there's plenty to choose from where you're not sharing a floating hotel with 4000 other people. But if someone wants to do it, it doesn't affect me, they are their own adult. I do not bash people for making any decision that affects their well-being.
I am considering returning to cruising late fall of this year.

[clo]

1 minute ago, bosslaydee said:

I am considering returning to cruising late fall of this year.

I was preparing to thank you for your well stated thoughts. Until this. So obviously there will be no vaccine by then and I'm betting no good treatment. So you're willing to contract it in whatever form it takes. And, if asymptomatic, then bring it home and infect others. Okey dokey.

[bosslaydee]

1 minute ago, clo said:

I was preparing to thank you for your well stated thoughts. Until this. So obviously there will be no vaccine by then and I'm betting no good treatment. So you're willing to contract it in whatever form it takes. And, if asymptomatic, then bring it home and infect others. Okey dokey.

Do you know the percentage of asymptomatic cases? I'm guessing no since tests aren't even frequent enough to test SYMPTOMATIC cases. So, let's stop throwing that word around like asymptomatic is a huge, definitive probability.

 

Secondly, i don't know how the states do it, but if i leave my country, the minute i return i'll have to be under 14 day quarantine. I live alone so why do you assume i'd spread anything? Please do not assume i'd willingly infect people.

 

And lastly, the most important point that was unfortunately missed; I'm considering it. I have made no plans. I have put no money down. I have time to think it over and choose a different course of action. I'd like to wait for people to go on the august cruises and come back and see how they fare. Until then, i have no set plans.
Please do not bully me into thinking like you. I'm very open minded to all of life's possibilities.