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Do you want cruising to return to what it was?


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56 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

My concern isn't so much the cruise itself -- it's getting to the cruise.  This article and the accompanying comments send chills through what's left of my spine.  (Flying on American Airlines seems especially problematic.)

 

 


Well then lock yourself in your safe room. Make sure it has WiFi so you can continue this paranoia for the next year. 

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16 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

We don't know if it isn't effecting the young. A few months ago everyone believed children had no risk from the illness and now medical professionals are thinking this new kawasaki like disease could be a result from COVID19 infection. Also they are seeing former COVID19 patients being diagnosed with heart disease and kidney diseases. There is so much unknown about the long term effects of this disease so to say young people will be fine is premature. 

I don't think anyone said it isn't affecting the young.  What I said was that the young AND healthy are not at substantial risk from COVID,  The graph I posted clearly indicates that COVID death rate for the young (regardless of health) is much, much, much lower than for the elderly.  Is the death rate zero?  No. There's risk associated with most everything we do.  My point is simply that if you're counting on the young and healthy to abstain from returning to "normal" behavior in order to protect the elderly and compromised, your are likely to be disappointed.  The smart bet is to take personal responsibility for your own protection.

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33 minutes ago, mnocket said:

... My point is simply that if you're counting on the young and healthy to abstain from returning to "normal" behavior in order to protect the elderly and compromised, your are likely to be disappointed.  The smart bet is to take personal responsibility for your own protection.

Taking personal responsibility could be seen as pressing for legislation requiring the “young and healthy” to be quarantined if their “normal” behavior puts other members of their community at risk.

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13 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Taking personal responsibility could be seen as pressing for legislation requiring the “young and healthy” to be quarantined if their “normal” behavior puts other members of their community at risk.

I guess, advocating for a police state could be viewed by some as taking personal responsibility.  I read about a country (I think it was China?) where if you tested positive, you were required to enter quarantine in a state facility.  The government was using hotels for this purpose.  I suppose the USA could take this a step further and force anyone who failed to properly social distance into mandatory quarantine.  This isn't a solution I favor, and advocating for this type of regulation of others isn't what I consider personal responsibility, but that's just me.

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13 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:


Well then lock yourself in your safe room. Make sure it has WiFi so you can continue this paranoia for the next year. 

I am prepared to stay in my house for the next 5 years if I do not die from all my illnesses.I have 300 VHS movies,2 VCR’s ,267 DVD’s ,2 DVD players,100 LP’s,one victrola ,345 CD’s,2 CD players,78 cassettes,2 Casaette players,1000 books,1 IPad and a lifetime subscription to Cruise Critic.

Edited by lenquixote66
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13 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:


Well then lock yourself in your safe room. Make sure it has WiFi so you can continue this paranoia for the next year. 

 

It's concerning -- indeed, highly disturbing -- that the airlines decline to enforce their own safety rules.  Too bad you don't get it.

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1 hour ago, mnocket said:

I guess, advocating for a police state could be viewed by some as taking personal responsibility.  I read about a country (I think it was China?) where if you tested positive, you were required to enter quarantine in a state facility.  The government was using hotels for this purpose.  I suppose the USA could take this a step further and force anyone who failed to properly social distance into mandatory quarantine.  This isn't a solution I favor, and advocating for this type of regulation of others isn't what I consider personal responsibility, but that's just me.

 Requiring  people who (because of recreational travel) expose themselves to deadly diseases to take reasonable steps to not infect others is hardly a hallmark of “a police state”  — it is simply expecting themselves to behave in a responsible fashion. 

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38 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

It's concerning -- indeed, highly disturbing -- that the airlines decline to enforce their own safety rules.  Too bad you don't get it.

 

It does seem from posts on these threads that people from states which have (so far) largely escaped serious COVID  infections generally “don’t get it”.   I hope they do not have to learn.

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8 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

It does seem from posts on these threads that people from states which have (so far) largely escaped serious COVID  infections generally “don’t get it”.   I hope they do not have to learn.

 

Our Florida friend made his comment even though his state has confirmed more than 60,000 COVID cases and at least 2,600 deaths.  So the ostrich approach to the virus isn't limited to states with low infection rates.

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1 hour ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

It's concerning -- indeed, highly disturbing -- that the airlines decline to enforce their own safety rules.  Too bad you don't get it.


Oh, I get it. I just don’t agree with you. I know that’s been extremely difficult for some of you to understand. Then again, I don’t particularly find that surprising for Bainbridge. 

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5 minutes ago, Cruzaholic41 said:


Oh, I get it. I just don’t agree with you. I know that’s been extremely difficult for some of you to understand. Then again, I don’t particularly find that surprising for Bainbridge. 

 

I'm not sure why you keep throwing casual insults my way.  It certainly doesn't help your case (such as it is).

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13 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

Our Florida friend made his comment even though his state has confirmed more than 60,000 COVID cases and at least 2,600 deaths.  So the ostrich approach to the virus isn't limited to states with low infection rates.

Actually Florida has a low infection rate (so far) their population is greater than New York State’s , while the impact in total numbers (so far) is about. 1/10 of New York’s.

 

Of course,  since their infection (and fatalities) are still on the upswing (June 4 saw the highest daily rate) - they may come to have reason to rethink the cavalier attitude some of them express.

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2 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Actually Florida has a low infection rate (so far) their population is greater than New York State’s , while the impact in total numbers (so far) is about. 1/10 of New York’s.

 

Of course,  since their infection (and fatalities) are still on the upswing (June 4 saw the highest daily rate) - they may come to have reason to rethink the cavalier attitude some of them express.

 

Florida's per-capita infection rate is just about the same as the rate in my state (Washington).  I don't consider Washington's rate to be low.

 

Compared to the current rate in New York, and for that matter the rate in many other states, one could call the rate in Florida and Washington "low."  But that's faint praise at best.  Compared to the rate in other states and in other countries, the rate in Florida and Washington is sky-high.  New York's rate is simply higher.

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7 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

Florida's per-capita infection rate is just about the same as the rate in my state (Washington).  I don't consider Washington's rate to be low.

 

Compared to the current rate in New York, and for that matter the rate in many other states, one could call the rate in Florida and Washington "low."  But that's faint praise at best.  Compared to the rate in other states and in other countries, the rate in Florida and Washington is sky-high.  New York's rate is simply higher.

Just one point for clarification---NY state is more than just NY City and its suburbs. There are parts of NY state where the rate is very low. Mine is not one of the super low ones, but much lower than NY and its immediate vicintiy.

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1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Just one point for clarification---NY state is more than just NY City and its suburbs. There are parts of NY state where the rate is very low. Mine is not one of the super low ones, but much lower than NY and its immediate vicintiy.

It doesn’t take a medical degree to realize that a disease which is primarily spread person to person by exhaled droplets will produce infection rates which reflect population density —- that is what distancing is all about.  Of course upstate farm country  is going to do a lot better than crowded metropolitan areas.

 

However, once it exists in the population, an informed population will apply distancing - it just takes more conscious effort in Kings County than in Cayuga County.

 

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6 hours ago, mnocket said:

My point is simply that if you're counting on the young and healthy to abstain from returning to "normal" behavior in order to protect the elderly and compromised, your are likely to be disappointed.  The smart bet is to take personal responsibility for your own protection.

 

Maybe I am more of an optimist but I think young people are far more social aware than you give them credit for. And besides what exactly is "normal behaviour"? If you think about it what is consider "normal" has always been changing. Once upon a time men wore high heels not women, pink was for boys blue was for girls, in America tipping was seen as unpatriotic now not tipping is seen as unacceptable, ordering take out use to be a reserved for certain meals now people do it for nearly all their regular meals, in South Korea you would never eat alone and now they connect through video chat. People adapt and change all the time so whose to say social distancing can't be normalised? 

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1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

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People adapt and change all the time so whose to say social distancing can't be normalised? 

Who’s to say that?

 

Perhaps anyone who knows that there is only so much space in most communities - and certainly on public conveyances such as planes, trains, busses and even cruise ships - which can make it close to impossible for any effective social distancing to be normalized.  

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26 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Who’s to say that?

 

Perhaps anyone who knows that there is only so much space in most communities - and certainly on public conveyances such as planes, trains, busses and even cruise ships - which can make it close to impossible for any effective social distancing to be normalized.  

 

Well that is easily fixed by reducing the need for all that transport😜. There are lot of businesses that want to make work from home permanent and with video conferencing it further reduces the need for transport. Obviously not every job can be done from home but if a large enough chunk of the work force no longer need to travel you are not going to have as many crowds on public transport. The world changes whether you like it or not. Maybe cruising will have to restructure and become more expensive who really knows what the long term impacts on society will be. My mum hates how much we are trending towards a cashless society but there is nothing she can do but adapt (tap and go has helped her with adapting). Sometimes we have to lose the things we love or grown accustomed to on the other hand some changes can lead to great improvements🤗

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2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

I think young people are far more social aware than you give them credit for.

And I totally agree with you. Our daughters and their mates are in their early 40s and they're 'walking the walk.' And committed to change.

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3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Maybe I am more of an optimist but I think young people are far more social aware than you give them credit for. And besides what exactly is "normal behaviour"? If you think about it what is consider "normal" has always been changing. Once upon a time men wore high heels not women, pink was for boys blue was for girls, in America tipping was seen as unpatriotic now not tipping is seen as unacceptable, ordering take out use to be a reserved for certain meals now people do it for nearly all their regular meals, in South Korea you would never eat alone and now they connect through video chat. People adapt and change all the time so whose to say social distancing can't be normalised? 

 

You are confusing social norms like dress and behavior versus something that requires significant new business, space, living models.    

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On 6/3/2020 at 9:26 PM, ilikeanswers said:

 

Asian research suggests 25% Iceland which is a country that has had the most comprehensive testing say 50%

 

Please point me to this study, I want to get educated.

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I've been reading this thread with interest. Not once has it been mentioned WHERE these cruises will go. Unless we're talking closed loop Caribbean cruises, what is the likelihood of any country accepting travellers, particularly from the USA where the death toll is still rising and there is no national plan to combat Covid?

Here in NZ, after a strict lockdown policy,  we have currently only 1 active case, no one in hospital, a total of 22 deaths (all elderly with underlying conditions) and our borders are closed to all but returning citizens who will quarantine on arrival.

Ports in other countries may feel the same about international travellers.

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14 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

It doesn’t take a medical degree to realize that a disease which is primarily spread person to person by exhaled droplets will produce infection rates which reflect population density —- that is what distancing is all about.  Of course upstate farm country  is going to do a lot better than crowded metropolitan areas.

 

However, once it exists in the population, an informed population will apply distancing - it just takes more conscious effort in Kings County than in Cayuga County.

 

So, maybe as well as cruise ships (if sand when they return) having reduced capacity, maybe we should reduce the population of our largest cities.

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