Would you go on a "socially distance" cruise

[JeffElizabeth]

Sounds like most people would rather stay home, but Vegas filled up very fast once some casinos reopened.  I think a "soft opening" for the cruise industry will work. Limited number of boats, possibly smaller ones first. We recently booked a trip on the new Ryndam in late 2021. 

[Kayak32]

10 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

I'm am confused by your comments. The airlines and cruise companies will comply with the best science available. That is, social distancing and masks save lives. It is the job of the CDC etc to veto any arrangement that is a public health hazard. 

 

As I understand it, the majority of Americans do practice social distancing and wearing masks.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/americans-social-distancing-decreases-as-coronavirus-pandemic-persists-poll-finds/ar-BB13VjhJ

 

So, it is your personal decision to fly/cruise or not. But,  the world has changed. The air travel and cruise industries are in contraction. Carnival is retiring ships and reducing capacity. 

 

Cause and effect. Mitigation safeguards are in place because the disease has not been defeated. As long as the disease is active, safeguards are needed. Should you wish to continue cruising without distancing, defeat the disease first.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/18/coronavirus-parts-of-the-us-are-on-the-cusp-of-losing-control-gottlieb-says.html

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/18/california-arizona-florida-report-record-spikes-in-coronavirus-cases.html

 

 

 

 

 

That’s not the science. Direct from CDCs website. And before you point out these look at influenzas not COVID it will be awhile before actual, accurate Covid research is available. So best thing stop guessing and speculating and use that actual science we have available now. 

 

“In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018….In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks…Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza….Proper use of face masks is essential because improper use might increase the risk for transmission.”

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

 

Not CDC but this research is a  doozy. 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

 

 

then there’s this just Incase the science isn’t convincing. 

As of mid June, Bejing got hit with a 2nd wave, city under lockdown. Japan the same thing. Both adhere to wearing masks, so how did that help them???

 

From CBS

https://youtu.be/Fx29Ea3hpR4

 

 

  

Edited June 19, 2020 by Kayak32

[Kayak32]

Oh and go look at the AZ numbers yourself. What is being reported is 100% of testing, both PRC and Serology. In other words all these “new” cases include those positive for antibodies, you know those that had it weeks or even months ago. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Kayak32

[HappyInVan]

27 minutes ago, Kayak32 said:

“In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018….In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks…Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza….Proper use of face masks is essential because improper use might increase the risk for transmission.”

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

 

 

 

Actually, this is from the CDC site May 23rd...

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html

 

They recommend ...

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html

 

they also include citations of recent studies.

 

Why are there conflicting recommendations?

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-offer-conflicting-advice-masks-expert-tells-us/story?id=70958380

 

In fact, Dr. Faucci thinks...

 

"Fauci said on June 9 that the virus is “very different” from other outbreaks such as Ebola and HIV. The virus jumped from an animal host and has a high degree of transmissibility and mortality, he said. It is historically one of the worst pandemics the world has ever experienced, he said, adding people have compared it to the 1918 flu.."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/dr-fauci-frustrated-americans-are-ignoring-science-amid-coronavirus.html

 

Finally, you may not be aware of it. But, the positive percentage from anti-body tests (3-10%) are often  lower than from the PCR tests. Therefore, the inclusion of anti-body tests makes the state look less infected.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/cdc-and-states-are-misreporting-covid-19-test-data-pennsylvania-georgia-texas/611935/

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by HappyInVan

[Kayak32]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Actually, this is from the CDC site May 23rd...

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html

 

They recommend ...

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html

 

they also include citations of recent studies.

 

Why are there conflicting recommendations?

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-offer-conflicting-advice-masks-expert-tells-us/story?id=70958380

 

In fact, Dr. Faucci thinks...

 

"Fauci said on June 9 that the virus is “very different” from other outbreaks such as Ebola and HIV. The virus jumped from an animal host and has a high degree of transmissibility and mortality, he said. It is historically one of the worst pandemics the world has ever experienced, he said, adding people have compared it to the 1918 flu.."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/19/dr-fauci-frustrated-americans-are-ignoring-science-amid-coronavirus.html

 

Finally, you may not be aware of it. But, the positive percentage from anti-body tests (3-10%) are often  lower than from the PCR tests. Therefore, the inclusion of anti-body tests makes the state look less infected.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/cdc-and-states-are-misreporting-covid-19-test-data-pennsylvania-georgia-texas/611935/

 

 

 

 

I am quite aware. I have a masters in human physiology.  Fauci  flip flops every time it suits him and his handlers. 

 

 

[kazu]

1 minute ago, Kayak32 said:

I am quite aware. I have a masters in human physiology.  Fauci  flip flops every time it suits him and his handlers. 

 

 

 

Bolding is mine - and you are a specialist in infectious diseases, too?????

 

This is a new pandemic and scientists are learning as they go.  If Fauci was in charge of the covid updates and his guidance was listened to I suspect your outbreak would not be as bad as it is now and about to become. 😞 

 

[ABoatNerd]

The Canadian equivalent, Dr. Tam, stated not long ago that masks are not effective and are not required. In February she said the virus was not a threat. So it is not country specific regarding inaccurate or misinformation.  The world hot spot for SARS was Toronto in 2003, I lived in a 4 month semi lock down with no technology to work at home. It does not appear that Canada learned that much from SARS as Canada was not any more prepared for a pandemic than any other country. My own family doctor says - if masks are so good, why then do you also have to social distance? - interesting point.

 

The point is that pandemics may likely become more frequent due to globalization activity.

 

That has repercussions on the cruise industry. If mask wearing and on board and on tour social distancing is required - that will turn off many consumers, myself included.

 

It is one thing to wear a mask for essential purchases and necessary outings, entirely something else for non essentials like a cruise.

 

 

 

 

[Kayak32]

13 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Bolding is mine - and you are a specialist in infectious diseases, too?????

 

This is a new pandemic and scientists are learning as they go.  If Fauci was in charge of the covid updates and his guidance was listened to I suspect your outbreak would not be as bad as it is now and about to become. 😞 

 

You do realize Fauci has said lock downs were a mistake.  He also  said masks don’t work in February. Then in March he said they are a sign of respect. Really how about respecting the way our immune system is designed and letting it do it’s thing?  Or respecting the research that has shown for years masks are a health risk to the one wearing them when worn outside a sterile environment? In June you are propagating the virus. Even though at this point the research was/is showing the asymptomatic have an absolutely tiny chance of infecting others. Finally if social distancing works masks aren’t necessary.  

 

You realize domestic abuse, child abuse and suicides are up astronomically do to the lock downs.  We would likely have gotten through this by now if those not high risk would stop hiding between staying inside, social distancing, and masks.  People are prolonging the inevitable.  Until people start developing antibodies this isn’t going anywhere.  The numbers show many more than previously thought have had it.  The survival rate is 99.98% that’s only if you get it first. This is likely even an understatement because many people have not been antibody tested. The numbers are going up right now for a couple reasons.  First the testing blitz. They are lumping current active cases together with those with antibodies. The problem with this is these people are positive now. All those people who couldn’t have “optional” surgeries all those months are now going in for surgery.  That’s if they survived the lock down without their surgery, many didn’t.  These people are being required to be tested prior to surgery.  If positive with antibodies or current virus infected they are being list as active hospital cases.  These are asymptomatic  or antibody present people who are not in the hospital because of Covid, but are being classified as Covid hospitalizations. If they’d stop claim these people as Covid the numbers would look much different.

 

 It’s believed this was here in the USA since last fall.  How did we all survive those months before it was being heavily talked about when we were out living our lives normally?  Yes some did die and I am not belittling that.  But this is insanity. Enjoy your social distancing masked cruises. As most here have said we will pass.  

 

[Sailaway1706]

Always loved to meet people from around the world on a cruise ships. Some became friends. But socially distance on cruise ship? I think that‘s not my kind of cruise. Wearing a mask at the bar, on excursions, at the theatre and other public places on the ship? No thanks. 

[Cshells]

Can't wait to cruise again!

 

It would be lovely to have all these extra space in the ship with less capacity. I always think there's too many people n very limited space onboard unless in a Haven suite. But now with social distancing,  we can enjoy all facilities like in a private yacht or 6* hotels.  That's amazing!

 

We can still meet people with social distancing.  Just need to respect people social distancing space.  People still can have nice conversation and fun time together listening to music and drinks.  But for those who only like to have romantic close relationships,  social distancing maybe not a good idea.  

 

We wear different clothes and gear for protection for different climate and purposes like sports. PPE is the same idea. I don't like to wear shoes. My feet cannot breathe n sweat. I get used to them when I need to. I can take them off when I get home or in my cabin. Same apply to mask, or face shield.  I wear them when i go out all the time now. I have different color now just like t-shirts.  It's easy to get used to if cruise is what you really like to do.  Except for some people unfortunately their health issues make them not able to wear mask.

 

All pharmaceutical companies are racing to be the first to develop a vaccine for Covid19.  The time to enjoy spacious cruise experience will not be long.  Cruise companies are dumping old ships so less cruises will be available.  And after there's a vaccine, cruises will be back to full capacity.  There are 13 vaccines being tested in humans now n 120 others in earlier stages of development. 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/wall-street-banking-covid-19-vaccine-election-200619204859320.html

 

The world is fascinating and I can't wait to explore it with the most simple way of traveling...which is cruising!

[MISTER 67]

On 5/28/2020 at 7:30 PM, The-Inside-Cabin said:

 

This article in the Washington Post describes a potential cruise in the future that would require social distancing and maybe masks.

 

I would never go on such a cruise. It's either a normal cruise or none at all for me.

 

Is there anyone out there who WOULD go on a socially distance cruise?

 

Wear a mask on a cruise - nope. They can sail without me if those are the rules.

 

The whole point of cruising - for me anyway - is normal socializing. Anything less would be a waste of time and money.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/a-longtime-cruise-reviewer-answers-the-question-what-will-it-take-for-you-to-cruise-again/2020/05/28/144283be-9f54-11ea-9590-1858a893bd59_story.html

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Agree 100%.

[MISTER 67]

On 6/15/2020 at 11:09 AM, RocketMan275 said:

To a great extent, that's how things would work.  Some have mentioned assigned dining times, room service required on certain nights to offload MDR, etc.   Specified times to use the pool.  I imagine shore excursions would be restrained, only limited seating on buses, masks required, etc.  Why bother.  

You're right, forget about it.

That being said, I need a cruise as soon as safely possible, that means until we see a vaccine.

Edited June 20, 2020 by MISTER 67

[HappyInVan]

Actually, I don't have a problem with social distancing. I sail for the destinations. The Norwegian fjords are magnificent. I'll gladly wear a mask in public areas.

 

Look at the positives. A cruise ship at 50% capacity? Its like a dream!!!!  😍

 

Covid isn't the only bug going around. We'll all be healthier if we wear masks on an airplane and on a ship.

 

I would book the trip in a heartbeat. The only problem are the pesky tests/isolation to get into the country. I just can't wait for Canada to form a bubble with the EU. 🤩

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by HappyInVan

[RocketMan275]

4 hours ago, MISTER 67 said:

You're right, forget about it.

That being said, I need a cruise as soon as safely possible, that means until we see a vaccine.

"The FDA has never approved a vaccine for humans that is effective against any member of the coronavirus family, which includes SARS, MERS, and several that cause the common cold."

 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/will-there-be-a-coronavirus-vaccine-maybe-not.html

 

There are several ways forward.

We might get a vaccine (see above).

We might get lucky and the virus mutates into something more benign. (Some say this is likely.)

We might develop herd immunity.  (All those running around without masks might be doing us a favor.)

We might have to learn to live with it like we do other coronaviruses.  (Does anyone think, based upon recent experience, that will include these protocols?)

 

I know some of those choices aren't that palatable but there's no law that says we get to choose.

[Lazz]

9 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

"The FDA has never approved a vaccine for humans that is effective against any member of the coronavirus family, which includes SARS, MERS, and several that cause the common cold."

 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/will-there-be-a-coronavirus-vaccine-maybe-not.html

 

There are several ways forward.

We might get a vaccine (see above).

We might get lucky and the virus mutates into something more benign. (Some say this is likely.)

We might develop herd immunity.  (All those running around without masks might be doing us a favor.)

We might have to learn to live with it like we do other coronaviruses.  (Does anyone think, based upon recent experience, that will include these protocols?)

 

I know some of those choices aren't that palatable but there's no law that says we get to choose.

-We might develop herd immunity.  (All those running around without masks might be doing us a favor.)

-We might have to learn to live with it like we do other coronaviruses.  (Does anyone think, based upon recent experience, that will include these protocols?)

 

These two may go together.

[ABoatNerd]

10 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

"The FDA has never approved a vaccine for humans that is effective against any member of the coronavirus family, which includes SARS, MERS, and several that cause the common cold."

 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/will-there-be-a-coronavirus-vaccine-maybe-not.html

 

There are several ways forward.

We might get a vaccine (see above).

We might get lucky and the virus mutates into something more benign. (Some say this is likely.)

We might develop herd immunity.  (All those running around without masks might be doing us a favor.)

We might have to learn to live with it like we do other coronaviruses.  (Does anyone think, based upon recent experience, that will include these protocols?)

 

I know some of those choices aren't that palatable but there's no law that says we get to choose.

 

For sure - I lived the dream in Toronto in 2003 with SARS, Toronto being the hot spot.

Thanks so much for sharing this.

 

[cbjlakebrook]

I would have no problem going on a cruise where social distancing is required. I had booked back to back (East/West) Caribbean 8/1/20, but they cancelled.  It's not ideal but it is also short term.   I love meeting people and socializing but right now it just isn't a good idea.  I would be very unhappy if they do away with buffet.  I was om Westerdam's last cruise (Asia Jan-Feb) and Zaandam's last cruise in South America (Mar-Apr) and they were serving the main course from the beginning.  All they had to do was switch the salad, bread etc..  I think I can deal with just about anything--except sitting at home thinking about cruising.  Flying to Jamaica tomorrow--wanderlust. 

[cscurlock]

On 6/21/2020 at 7:08 AM, Lazz said:

-We might develop herd immunity.  (All those running around without masks might be doing us a favor.)

-We might have to learn to live with it like we do other coronaviruses.  (Does anyone think, based upon recent experience, that will include these protocols?)

 

These two may go together.

Yeah had some bad news for these scenarios.  Spain just did a study and are finding you lose immunity after about 3 weeks.  I remember early on in New Orleans they had people who were clear of the virus and came back into the hospital infected again right back into the ICU.  Doctors were scratching their heads. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by cscurlock

[Lazz]

9 hours ago, cscurlock said:

Yeah had some bad news for these scenarios.  Spain just did a study and are finding you lose immunity after about 3 weeks.  I remember early on in New Orleans they had people who were clear of the virus and came back into the hospital infected again right back into the ICU.  Doctors were scratching their heads. 

IF a vaccine is discovered, it is nothing more than forced herd immunity.  Could it be possible that people would have to get a shot every month?

[Himself]

The question is: "Would you go on a Social distance cruise.  I probably would.  Realize that each of the ships would go at 50% of capacity or less. That means the largest HAL ships could only carry 1300 or less passengers. The major news programs are warning of fact that yesterday there were 378 Covid 19 deaths.  On the average day in the USA there are 7452 deaths. But they forget to announce that.  The late Irish Comedian Hal Roach . used to say:" Ladies and gentlemen, live every day of your life as though it is your last, because some day you are going to be right."

[iancal]

Given what we have seen when cities 'open up' we would never consider a so called socially distance cruise.  We do not think that it is possible or even  probable.  It may be billed as such and may in fact be that way for the first 6 hours.  After that...no way. 

 

 Nor do I think that a responsible  cruise line would risk it.  One more covid infected ship floating around looking for a port would just about finish off the industry in the near and medium term.

 

You only have to look at what is happening in many cities today to understand the complete lack of common sense that many people appear to display.  Who thinks cruisers have any more common sense that the general population in those cities?

 

You may want to treat every day as if it is your last but that is no reason to jump off a bridge or carelessly place you, your loved ones, or others around you in the way of danger for no good reason whatsoever other than your selfish desire to take a cruise. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by iancal

[mediator]

I would try a socially distant cruise. Like others said maybe ships will not sail at full capacity. What if the number they decided to cruise with, you then had your own theater chairs, pool chairs, dining table reserved for you. 
 

Time will tell. I am anxiously awaiting the first ship to cruise and hear what people report back before I book.  I don’t need any more fcc’s.

[taxmantoo]

1 hour ago, Himself said:

The late Irish Comedian Hal Roach . used to say:" Ladies and gentlemen, live every day of your life as though it is your last, because some day you are going to be right."

There is a major difference between living the last day of your life enjoying life to the fullest or living the last day of your life playing Russian Roulette.  It is your choice ... good luck!

Edited July 7, 2020 by taxmantoo

[HamOp]

I am not one to buy anything in the first model year, be it a car, computer, or boat.

The first few years of a new product are sure to have "bugs" and I would rather let someone else work out those problems.

The first year or two when cruising returns will be the first model year of the new cruise experience.  

I'll let someone else test the waters first, and when the bugs are worked out, I may return.

[geocruiser]

39 minutes ago, HamOp said:

I am not one to buy anything in the first model year, be it a car, computer, or boat.

The first few years of a new product are sure to have "bugs" and I would rather let someone else work out those problems.

The first year or two when cruising returns will be the first model year of the new cruise experience.  

I'll let someone else test the waters first, and when the bugs are worked out, I may return.

Speaking of bugs, I just love yours.