When will things start back up?

[Flatbush Flyer]

58 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

There's no contradiction in what I said. The CDC will know the full extent of the cruise lines' COVID protocols because they have to obtain CDC approval of them in order to sail. And any time a cruise line wants to amend their protocols the CDC will have to approve them before they can be implemented. So anytime a cruise line wants to include, amend or exclude a vaccination requirement the CDC will know about it and have the right to approve disapprove or order changes to the proposal.

 

I think your interpretation of "offer to sail" is invalid.  How does one "offer to sail" without "offering to sell"?  Certainly Carnival Corp.'s lawyers don't think much of your interpretation. If they thought what you think Holland America and Princess wouldn't have cancelled all their cruises longer than one week through November 1. Rather than arguing further let's see what Oceania and other cruise lines do in the next few days. December will be here next week and NCLH should be making their monthly cancellation announcement in a few says.

 

I find your comment about the CDC regulations not applying to itineraries not involving US ports condescending and insulting to both my intelligence and knowledge of the cruise business. Not only have I been cruising for more than 30 years but one of the businesses I owned and operated was a travel agency. I'm pretty sure I was aware of the fact that the various CDC orders don't apply to cruises that are not in US waters at some point in their itinerary.

 

While month-to-month cancellation announcements may have been reasonable in the past given that the individual CDC No Sail Orders and CLIA voluntary no sail agreements were relatively short term, once the last No Sail Order expired and was replaced by the Conditional Sail Order that is not short term, but in fact extends for a full year, I can't find a reasonable argument for continuing that approach for the longer cruises when they are explicitly prohibited for one year unless the order is amended.

How am I supposed to know that you were a TA or the extent of your knowledge about the maritime industry. So, hardly insulting.

 

As for the rest, the bottom line is that one of the largest cruiseline holding companies in the world (and its three cruise lines) appear to share my interpretation (at least for now). If the CDC was/is unhappy with NCLH for their current practices, the news would be all over "the trades."

 

And there's still no rule on the face of the earth that states that an entity restricted by the CDC cannot request an exemption. 

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

How am I supposed to know that you were a TA or the extent of your knowledge about the maritime industry. So, hardly insulting.

 

As for the rest, the bottom line is that one of the largest cruiseline holding companies in the world (and its three cruise lines) appear to share my interpretation (at least for now). If the CDC was/is unhappy with NCLH for their current practices, the news would be all over "the trades."

 

And there's still no rule on the face of the earth that states that an entity restricted by the CDC cannot request an exemption. 

 

You're wrong. NCLH is the only one of the three cruise line holding  companies that has not announced the cancellation of US cruises longer than 7 nights. By Monday or Tuesday I'm sure NCLH will make it unanimous.

 

Royal Caribbean has joined Carnival Corp. Here are two threads about Royal joining the parade.:

 

Per this Celebrity board thread Celebrity and Royal Caribbean are already in the process of cancelling and revising all itineraries of more than seven days.

This thread on the Royal Caribbean board quotes the information sent to TAs yesterday :

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2765790-8-night-update/

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by njhorseman

[Flatbush Flyer]

19 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 

You're wrong. NCLH is the only one of the three cruise line holding  companies that has not announced the cancellation of US cruises longer than 7 nights. By Monday or Tuesday I'm sure NCLH will make it unanimous.

 

Royal Caribbean has joined Carnival Corp. Here are two threads about Royal joining the parade.:

 

Per this Celebrity board thread Celebrity and Royal Caribbean are already in the process of cancelling and revising all itineraries of more than seven days.

This thread on the Royal Caribbean board quotes the information sent to TAs yesterday :

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2765790-8-night-update/

 

 

 

Until NCLH does cancellation differently, I am not "wrong." Nor will I necessarily be wrong (about requesting exemptions) ever. NOTHING prohibits requesting an exemption. If that was the case, the CDC order would have said ("no exemptions").

 

In any case, right now, NCLH's current policies can only be seen as they exist.

 

That said, it is close to the end of the month and we may see Oceania (and the others in that group) make a new one ofbits now regular monthly announcements and it may significantly alter their 2021 schedule. 

 

But, I trust that O will continue its monthly rotation to maintain flexibility. It's just plain common sense.

 

 

[RJB]

23 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

While there is some "dollar sense" to your point about cutting staff further, I am convinced that, as far as Oceania is concerned, FDR is personally hard-pressed to abandon his "baby" and wants to protect the livelihood of as many employees as possible while also testing the efficacy of consolidating many of the NCLH companies' functions.

 

While O Is a business in every sense of the word, it remains unusual in many of its practices which, in total, are part of the reason that it has such a loyal passenger base.

 

+ 1

[Tranquility Base]

Has anyone heard which actual ships from which cruise lines are going to be first up to go through the certification process for the CDC's CSO ?

[Tranquility Base]

The current Australian Government ban on cruise ships runs until 17 Dec.

Apparently, the Cruise Line International Association is in talks with officials to see if a timetable can be set for a managed resumption of restricted cruising.

 

Domestic cruising for locals only initially, but will be interesting to monitor their progress.

[CruiseLibra]

There is an interesting reference to NCL repositioning ships to the North America  in this new article:  https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/more-cruise-ships-poised-to-resume-service?fbclid=IwAR1qECF-3rSUCmH44cr3omCOy5pSbdoX6nfLpYL1AY8ycCCwOyLgz3Qz4JM

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by CruiseLibra

[Hawaiidan]

1 hour ago, CruiseLibra said:

There is an interesting reference to NCL repositioning ships to the North America  in this new article:  https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/more-cruise-ships-poised-to-resume-service?fbclid=IwAR1qECF-3rSUCmH44cr3omCOy5pSbdoX6nfLpYL1AY8ycCCwOyLgz3Qz4JM

 

 

 

[Hawaiidan]

1 minute ago, Hawaiidan said:

 

Simple solution..... take your 21 say cruise and  bingo.... it becomes 3... 7 day cruises.... each 7th day everyone gets off the ship at 9am  and back on at 10 am and the cycle repeats as long as necessary.. to the end of time. Or till the CDC gets it's head out of its posterior 

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

Simple solution..... take your 21 say cruise and  bingo.... it becomes 3... 7 day cruises.... each 7th day everyone gets off the ship at 9am  and back on at 10 am and the cycle repeats as long as necessary.. to the end of time. Or till the CDC gets it's head out of its posterior 

I knew there had to be a reason why they pay you the big bucks.😎

[Tranquility Base]

If anyone is interested, there is a 'Live from' thread on the first 2 night cruise on Quantum of the Seas out of Singapore on the Royal Caribbean forum. 

[Queen of DaNile]

Today's bad news:

"At Oceania Cruises, the health, safety and well-being of our guests, crew and the communities we visit have always been and remain our highest priority. Given the continued global efforts to combat the spread of the global COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic, we are extending our suspension of voyages to include all voyage departures from January 1, 2021 through March 31, 2021 plus select April voyage departures."

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Queen of DaNile said:

Today's bad news:

"At Oceania Cruises, the health, safety and well-being of our guests, crew and the communities we visit have always been and remain our highest priority. Given the continued global efforts to combat the spread of the global COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic, we are extending our suspension of voyages to include all voyage departures from January 1, 2021 through March 31, 2021 plus select April voyage departures."

If you are affected by this set of cancellations, do not hesitate in rebooking ASAP. Pretty much all of the 2021 and first half of 2022 voyages that are of interest to us are totally waitlisted, at least, in the veranda cabins.

 

Fortunately, thanks to the book onboard transfer w/o penalty guarantee, we were able to move our NZ/OZ January 2021 cruise to January 2022 just before it was cancelled and a lot of other folks would then want to transfer too or add it because a different cruise was just cancelled.

 

One other item: If you used FCCs to pay for part or all of the just cancelled Cruises, rest assured that they will be redeposited to your O Club record (though you won't necessarily receive written confirmation). However, do check with your TA as well as with O directly to confirm the newly issued "book by/cruise by" dates for each FCC which may vary depending upon when they were originally issued. The new "book by" date will most likely be one year from the date of the just-cancelled cruise while the "cruise by" date may vary depending on its original "cruise by" date. In essence then you could end up with a "book by" date of 12/2/21 AND a "cruise by" date of 12/2/21 (or later). Again, do double check these deadlines for the reissued FCCs. BTW, any new FCCs from the just cancelled cruise (for cash you had in the deal) will have the deadlines stated in the current Travelers Assurance link on the O website. And remember that if you take the 125% FCC deal, that's only for the cash portion of the cruise after the port taxes have gone back to your CC.

[njhorseman]

On 11/25/2020 at 5:56 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

But, I trust that O will continue its monthly rotation to maintain flexibility. It's just plain common sense.

Well, so much for your certainty about O's common sense monthly rotation to maintain flexibility as today's announcement cancels three months of cruises (plus a couple in April), not one month of cruises.

[pinotlover]

Good advice from Flatbush Flyer. 
 

I still believe that Oceania has only sold cabins, out into the future, at current reduced capacity levels, perhaps 66-75% capacity. Therefore, people shouldn’t panic if they can’t find a cruise they currently want. Once the vaccine is wide spread and capacity restrictions are lifted a lot of cabins will become available.

[Flatbush Flyer]

10 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Well, so much for your certainty about O's common sense monthly rotation to maintain flexibility as today's announcement cancels three months of cruises (plus a couple in April), not one month of cruises.

There's always the possibility of exceptions to a rule. To quote the infamous Davy Jones (in Pirates of the Caribbean), Oceania's monthly announce/cancel policy is "more a set of guidelines." ☠️ aargh! aye! 

[Doubt It]

Alternatively, do not book any cruise. 

Sit back and wait and see what the real onboard experience is.

Likely considerably less than what regular O cruisers are used too - well, there is considerable debt reduction to finance - that is likely to hit the food and service.

 

There will be other travel options out there, so explore all your options before putting your $ down.

[KirkNC]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

Good advice from Flatbush Flyer. 
 

I still believe that Oceania has only sold cabins, out into the future, at current reduced capacity levels, perhaps 66-75% capacity. Therefore, people shouldn’t panic if they can’t find a cruise they currently want. Once the vaccine is wide spread and capacity restrictions are lifted a lot of cabins will become available.

You are an optimist indeed.  I am sure you are right but the question is when?

[pinotlover]

7 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

You are an optimist indeed.  I am sure you are right but the question is when?

Not sure whether this response is optimistic or pessimistic. I don’t believe neither the capacity restrictions nor the seven 7 cruise limits will be lifted until late 3rd quarter next year. I believe that the entire currently scheduled Alaska season will mostly be eliminated as well as most all of European sailing next summer. The Fall “ color change “ sailings will be iffy likewise largely depending upon Canada. It will take most all of 2nd Qtr to get most vaccinated here and in Europe. A bit longer for other parts of the world. Governments will respond too slowly after that point to really affect the sailing season.

 

I think the Southern Hemisphere sailings in 4th Qtr 2021 and forward will probably go as planned. 
 

All speculation, no crystal ball. 

[Tranquility Base]

1 hour ago, Doubt It said:

Alternatively, do not book any cruise. 

Sit back and wait and see what the real onboard experience is.

I don't Doubt It (pun intended)

 

Yes, that's basically what I did.

Over 6 months ago I cancelled my early 2021 sailing as it was obvious that significant international leisure travel was going to be out of the question.

 

Like you, nothing booked for 2021 as I want to see what the product is.

Have booked for 2022 however, but making sure very little money at risk.

[Jayne E]

By cancelling 3 months out, O won’t take final payment for Feb & March and then have to give 125% FCC....probably becoming costly.

[Tranquility Base]

33 minutes ago, Jayne E said:

By cancelling 3 months out, O won’t take final payment for Feb & March and then have to give 125% FCC....probably becoming costly.

Also, I have no doubt ALL cruise lines are aware of growing customer upset.

Paying in full just for the cruise to be cancelled a few weeks later is not a long term plan to keep your customers happy.

 

As more cruises are cancelled for 2021, early FCCs issued will hopefully have their sail by dates extended.

FCCs are going to have a cashflow effect for a long time yet.

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Tranquility Base

[Flatbush Flyer]

18 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

Also, I have no doubt ALL cruise lines are aware of growing customer upset.

Paying in full just for the cruise to be cancelled a few weeks later is not a long term plan to keep your customers happy.

 

As more cruises are cancelled for 2021, early FCCs issued will hopefully have their sail by dates extended.

FCCs are going to have a cashflow effect for a long time yet.

 

I had one redeposited that ended up with the same future book by/sail by December 2021 date! Fortunately, as we have always seen with O, exceptions are considered on a case by case basis if another future rebooking is in the mix.

[RJB]

3 hours ago, Doubt It said:

Alternatively, do not book any cruise. 

Sit back and wait and see what the real onboard experience is.

Likely considerably less than what regular O cruisers are used too - well, there is considerable debt reduction to finance - that is likely to hit the food and service.

 

There will be other travel options out there, so explore all your options before putting your $ down.

Very good advise.  We will let other people tell what the new cruise experence is like and then we will know what to do.  Just keep reading CC.  Best place to find out. 

[pinotlover]

35 minutes ago, RJB said:

Very good advise.  We will let other people tell what the new cruise experence is like and then we will know what to do.  Just keep reading CC.  Best place to find out. 

Probably wise, but problematic. We have a cruise booked for 11/21 that replaced our cancelled 11/20 cruise. PIF date is early June. I don’t believe Oceania will be sailing regular cruises by then, perhaps not until July or August. I expect regular cruising to be back by 4th Qtr. Taking your advice means we lose another year of cruising. Even early 2022 cruises, which we also have booked, would become questionable.

 

If everyone waits to see, then no one will ever know!