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Boatdrill

Cruise lines meeting with CDC

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With the forecasts for the United States which have just come out and the most likelihood of the border closure between the US and Canada being extended, I find it hard to visualize that cruises will be going in August - assuming anyone wants to board one.  

We are sticking to home as much as possible here, doing curb side and wearing masks when we have to go in a store.  I won't be going on a cruise ship in 2020 unless a miracle happens.  I don't think I am alone.

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7 minutes ago, kazu said:

We are sticking to home as much as possible here, doing curb side and wearing masks when we have to go in a store.  I won't be going on a cruise ship in 2020 unless a miracle happens.  I don't think I am alone.

Ditto for us on the stay at home and masking when out. No cruises this year in the plans. We have a Feb/Mar Asia that we probably will end up cancelling too unless things get a whole lot better by the time final payment comes around. 

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46 minutes ago, kazu said:

We are sticking to home as much as possible here, doing curb side and wearing masks when we have to go in a store.  I won't be going on a cruise ship in 2020 unless a miracle happens.  I don't think I am alone.

As are we in WA state and have been for over 3 months. Haven't been able to hug the grandchildren since the first week of March and nobody has been to our house.   Other than going grocery shopping (masked) we stay home.  

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1 hour ago, Cruising-along said:

As are we in WA state and have been for over 3 months. Haven't been able to hug the grandchildren since the first week of March and nobody has been to our house.   Other than going grocery shopping (masked) we stay home.  

That is certainly a wise decision...at least for you :).  And assuming this is indeed an endemic virus and continues to more around the world for the next few years you can certainly continue to shelter in place.   It quite an interesting way to live one's life.

 

Hank

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1 hour ago, kazu said:

We are sticking to home as much as possible here, doing curb side and wearing masks when we have to go in a store.  I won't be going on a cruise ship in 2020 unless a miracle happens.  I don't think I am alone.

We only wear masks when required by the store where we will be shopping.  We have resumed a pretty much normal life.   Even though we are in our seventies, we aren't all that concerned about the virus.    That said, we are fairly certain we will be cancelling our December cruise but only because we would not wish to be social distancing, wearing masks, etc.  We'd rather stay home.

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Mr Arnold's diplomatic statement is right on:  “I think there’s going to be so much more alignment around what makes sense from a public health standpoint regarding this virus in the coming weeks than there has been.The more clarity there is, the easier it’s going to be to organize around it.”   

 

The cruise lines have been on hold waiting for the CDC to set plans and policies. They deserve answers and path forward. 

 

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1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

We only wear masks when required by the store where we will be shopping.  We have resumed a pretty much normal life.   Even though we are in our seventies, we aren't all that concerned about the virus.    That said, we are fairly certain we will be cancelling our December cruise but only because we would not wish to be social distancing, wearing masks, etc.  We'd rather stay home.

 

We are also not that concerned for ourselves but WE always wear masks.  You don't wear masks to protect yourself, you wear them to protect others.  

 

Anyone, even without symptoms, can be spreading it.  I would not want to be the one that gives it to someone else.

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30 minutes ago, Boatdrill said:

 

The cruise lines have been on hold waiting for the CDC to set plans and policies. They deserve answers and path forward. 

 

 

I don't think it is the cruise lines that have been 'waiting'. The CDC gave them clear direction as to what needed to happen back when the "No Sail" order was extended:

 

From the CDC release:

 

This order ceases operations of cruise ships in waters in which the United States may exert jurisdiction and requires that they develop a comprehensive, detailed operational plan approved by CDC and the USCG to address the COVID-19 pandemic through maritime focused solutions, including a fully implementable response plan with limited reliance on state, local, and federal government support.  These plans would help prevent, mitigate, and respond to the spread of COVID-19, by:

  • monitoring of passengers and crew medical screenings;
  • training crew on COVID-19 prevention;
  • managing and responding to an outbreak on board; and
  • submitting a plan to USCG and CDC for review

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39 minutes ago, Cruise NH said:

 

We are also not that concerned for ourselves but WE always wear masks.  You don't wear masks to protect yourself, you wear them to protect others.  

 

Anyone, even without symptoms, can be spreading it.  I would not want to be the one that gives it to someone else.

Rather than cruising this year we have been using our RV more. We live in the suburban Chicago area and everyone is wearing masks at the stores. However, a recent 5 day camping trip to Southern Illinois illustrated a distinct cultural disparity between urban and rural areas. At the Walmart in Benton, Illinois, while there were signs requiring masks for both customers and employees, very few were actually using them. Walmart was not enforcing the directive. While most employees were wearing masks, about half were not using them correctly (covering only the mouth) and only about 40% of the customers were wearing masks at all. Those that did were mostly elderly or disabled, although we saw plenty without.
So the message that wearing masks helps protect others is not getting out to rural America. And Illinois is one of the states that has been most proactive in fighting the virus.
I don't see us cruising before the latter part of 2021 at the earliest.

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47 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I don't think it is the cruise lines that have been 'waiting'. The CDC gave them clear direction as to what needed to happen back when the "No Sail" order was extended:

 

From the CDC release:

 

This order ceases operations of cruise ships in waters in which the United States may exert jurisdiction and requires that they develop a comprehensive, detailed operational plan approved by CDC and the USCG to address the COVID-19 pandemic through maritime focused solutions, including a fully implementable response plan with limited reliance on state, local, and federal government support.  These plans would help prevent, mitigate, and respond to the spread of COVID-19, by:

  • monitoring of passengers and crew medical screenings;
  • training crew on COVID-19 prevention;
  • managing and responding to an outbreak on board; and
  • submitting a plan to USCG and CDC for review

 

I am waiting for the cruise lines to explain how they will respond to an outbreak on board - as there will be out breaks.  The cruise lines have never been able to eliminate noro or rotavirus on their ships.  There are still regular outbreaks of these viruses on ships.  So, imo, there is every reason to believe that once ships start to sail, there will be COVID-19 outbreaks.  All the precautions combined can reduce the risk, but cannot totally eliminate it.  Not a question of if, but when.

 

Anyone sailing on a cruise ship prior to a COVID-19 vaccine had better be prepared for an outbreak and all that it will entail. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cruise NH said:

 

We are also not that concerned for ourselves but WE always wear masks.  You don't wear masks to protect yourself, you wear them to protect others.  

 

Anyone, even without symptoms, can be spreading it.  I would not want to be the one that gives it to someone else.

Making statements like "...you wear them to protect others." does not impress me nor is it going to change my behavior.

 

WHO has said that asymptomatic transmission is rare.  Of course, their trying to walk that back now since it undermines their narrative.  

Edited by RocketMan275

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28 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

WHO has said that asymptomatic transmission is rare.  Of course, their trying to walk that back now since it undermines their narrative. 

No, the WHO is not walking that back, it is Dr. Fauci of the CDC that is clarifying the difference between "asymptomatic" and "pre-symptomatic", which makes a whole lot of sense.

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9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

No, the WHO is not walking that back, it is Dr. Fauci of the CDC that is clarifying the difference between "asymptomatic" and "pre-symptomatic", which makes a whole lot of sense.

Actually WHO has tried to "clarify" the statement which contradicts thinking from CDC.  CDC has stated that

 

" about a third of coronavirus infections may be asymptomatic. The CDC also estimates that 40% of coronavirus transmission is occurring before people feel sick, meaning they are presymptomatic.

 

The WHO representative who had previously stated:

 

it still seems to be rare that an asymptomatic person actually transmits onward to a secondary individual."

 

clarified her statement within 24 hours to say 

 

"this is a major unknown"

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/health/who-coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread-bn/index.html

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Making statements like "...you wear them to protect others." does not impress me nor is it going to change my behavior.

 

 

So, you are not interested in protecting others or others protecting you?  What am I missing here?

 

Yes you wear a mask to protect others and count on others doing the same for you.  How hard is this to grasp?  If everyone does it, the virus will dissipate with nowhere to go.  

Sadly not everyone  seems to want to.  And that’s a big part of the problem.

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4 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

" about a third of coronavirus infections may be asymptomatic. The CDC also estimates that 40% of coronavirus transmission is occurring before people feel sick, meaning they are presymptomatic.

This says that 1/3 of infections may be asymptomatic, it says nothing about asymptomatic transmission.  In other words, the person who gets the virus may not have symptoms, it doesn't say that the asymptomatic person can effectively transmit the virus.  The WHO says "asymptomatic" transmission is rare, CDC doesn't say anything about it.  CDC says transmission is high in "pre-symptomatic" people.

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1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

The WHO says "asymptomatic" transmission is rare, CDC doesn't say anything about it.  CDC says transmission is high in "pre-symptomatic" people.

 

And that’s the key thing.  People who are “pre-symptomatic” can appear to be asymptomatic.  Different story for sure and totally agree with you.

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The important fact and a key reason we can’t get our arms around this disease is people are capable of spreading the virus before they know they have it.  Really doesn’t matter what symptomatic you want to call it.

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6 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Making statements like "...you wear them to protect others." does not impress me nor is it going to change my behavior.

 


Thank you. I now have a much better understanding of the mindset of those who cough and sneeze all over the people in front of them through an entire show without the slightest concern.

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6 hours ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:


Thank you. I now have a much better understanding of the mindset of those who cough and sneeze all over the people in front of them through an entire show without the slightest concern.

It also reminds us that we have the option of using the ignore button on those same people.

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8 hours ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:


Thank you. I now have a much better understanding of the mindset of those who cough and sneeze all over the people in front of them through an entire show without the slightest concern.

I don't know why you think I have no concern about coughing and sneezing all over people in the theater.   That is an issue that existed before the virus and will persist long after the virus is defeated.  BTW, we've never attended a theater performance and never will.

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13 hours ago, kazu said:

 

So, you are not interested in protecting others or others protecting you?  What am I missing here?

 

Yes you wear a mask to protect others and count on others doing the same for you.  How hard is this to grasp?  If everyone does it, the virus will dissipate with nowhere to go.  

Sadly not everyone  seems to want to.  And that’s a big part of the problem.

It's not a matter of caring about your fellows as it is a realistic appreciation of the risks and tradeoffs involved. 

 

An article in the Wall Street Journal reported that the chances of a person dying from the virus is very much a function of where they live.  The average American not living in NYC chances of death is around 1 in 5000, very comparable to their chances of dying in an auto accident.  The average American under the age of fifty and not living in NYC chances are around one in fifty thousand. 

 

If an average American living in the heartland isn’t concerned about dying in an auto accident on his way to Walmart, why should he worry about wearing a mask inside of Walmart?  It’s as if one should argue that we shouldn’t drive to Walmart because that might result in an auto fatality.  It’s very understandable that these average Americans might consider wearing a mask at Walmart is an over-reaction.

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12 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

It's not a matter of caring about your fellows as it is a realistic appreciation of the risks and tradeoffs involved. 

 

An article in the Wall Street Journal reported that the chances of a person dying from the virus is very much a function of where they live.  The average American not living in NYC chances of death is around 1 in 5000, very comparable to their chances of dying in an auto accident.  The average American under the age of fifty and not living in NYC chances are around one in fifty thousand. 

 

If an average American living in the heartland isn’t concerned about dying in an auto accident on his way to Walmart, why should he worry about wearing a mask inside of Walmart?  It’s as if one should argue that we shouldn’t drive to Walmart because that might result in an auto fatality.  It’s very understandable that these average Americans might consider wearing a mask at Walmart is an over-reaction.

 

Now I understand why the United States is having such difficulty handling covid 19 and a resurgence is feared.

 

Perhaps a peak at this might help you - https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/2562261/

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6 minutes ago, kazu said:

Perhaps a peak at this might help you - https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/2562261/

Very interesting chart, and nice graphics. Thank you for posting it.  Just to be fair, I don't see causes such as cancer, heart failure, or accidents (other than drowning) or natural causes represented. The numbers shown are noted to represent only about 7% of the worldwide deaths. This chart shows Covid-19 rising up through the lower ranks of causes of death.

 

BTW, has anyone heard an update to the cruise line meetings with the CDC, the original purpose for this post?

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