CDC's Color coding System for Cruise Ships

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Now, whether or not the CDC has any jurisdiction in requiring noncommercial transportation outside the US, they are requiring an attestation that the operator will do this, and if found that they knowingly and willingly contravened this, they are liable for the criminal penalties.

Whether or not the CDC is actually able to enforce these restrictions, as I've said, they are requiring the attestation that it will be followed, which is beyond their mandate and jurisdiction.  The CDC does not really care whether they can enforce the requirements, they are forcing the cruise lines to comply since they are using the legal attestation to force the line executives to state that they will comply.  And, as another poster said, you are arguing the notification, but ignoring the actual "conditions of travel".  But, I'll end this here, since you are arguing the facts of the actual transportation, while I am arguing the facts of the attestation form.  

 

As for my contacts with NCL, its been 12 years since I worked there, and about 510% of everyone in the Hawaiian operation has changed since then.

[npcl]

28 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Whether or not the CDC is actually able to enforce these restrictions, as I've said, they are requiring the attestation that it will be followed, which is beyond their mandate and jurisdiction.  The CDC does not really care whether they can enforce the requirements, they are forcing the cruise lines to comply since they are using the legal attestation to force the line executives to state that they will comply.  And, as another poster said, you are arguing the notification, but ignoring the actual "conditions of travel".  But, I'll end this here, since you are arguing the facts of the actual transportation, while I am arguing the facts of the attestation form.  

 

As for my contacts with NCL, its been 12 years since I worked there, and about 510% of everyone in the Hawaiian operation has changed since then.

Well lets see what the CDC says about what the guidelines actually require outside of the US. 

 

There are clearly examples of the same requirements inside the US not being followed outside of the US.

 

So if it is as you state then clearly the cruise lines would be in trouble, but they are not.  After all were not the crew members arriving in Heathrow via charter flight in the prohibited public areas if the CDC rules were fully required outside of the US.

 

Have not heard or seen any cruise line being charged.  So maybe the practice and execution is a bit different then implied by the interpretation and the CDC is in fact not over reaching their authority, which ends when the foreign control takes jurisdiction.

 

I must admit that as a former member of a health related regulatory authority and having worked with the CDC I find it somewhat annoying that people are making claims about the text of the guidance, without any documentation showing that the claimed agency over reach is actually occurring.  I have searched looking for even a single example of a crew member stating that they had to take private transport home after arriving in their home country because it was required by the CDC.  I have found numerous examples of the home countries requiring things above and beyond the CDC requirements, including quarantine in hotels, negative tests, denial of access, etc.  Plenty of examples of deviation from the CDC rules.  Yet nowhere any statement that private transport was tacking place solely as the result of the CDC requirements.

 

It was a friend of mine at CDC that suggested that I write  them to get an official response. He did say that it might take a week or two.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by npcl

[npcl]

The other place that is allowing cruise ship crew to catch flights is Barbados.

 

It is appears that the problem is not with the country that the crew is leaving from, but the willingness of many of those countries to accept the flights back.  Here is an article about Barbados, clearly outside of control of the CDC.  Yet issues exist with the crew getting flown out.

 

Minister begs for more repatriation flights after crew member's death

 

http://www.loopnewsbarbados.com/content/minister-begs-more-repatriation-flights-after-crew-members-death

 

While I have not found any official reference to Barbados requirements, it looks like a lot, if not all of the repatriation is also by charter flights.

 

https://www.gob.mx/sre/prensa/mexican-cruise-ship-crew-members-return-from-barbados?idiom=en

 

From this one it does look like Barbados is requiring charter flights

 

https://barbadostoday.bb/2020/05/27/scores-of-stranded-bajans-return-via-cruise-ship/

 

[rkacruiser]

It's very disappointing to me, as a pure lay person with little knowledge of the laws/regulations, that the home countries of the crew members have been so reluctant to welcome home crew members who have been isolated for so long on their ships.  

 

I called it "inhumane" in a previous post.  I was challenged using that term.  Researching the definition of "inhumane", it was a poor choice of a word.  But, what word can adequately describe what these men and women have, and are, going through?  

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, npcl said:

The other place that is allowing cruise ship crew to catch flights is Barbados.

 

It is appears that the problem is not with the country that the crew is leaving from, but the willingness of many of those countries to accept the flights back.  Here is an article about Barbados, clearly outside of control of the CDC.  Yet issues exist with the crew getting flown out.

 

Minister begs for more repatriation flights after crew member's death

 

http://www.loopnewsbarbados.com/content/minister-begs-more-repatriation-flights-after-crew-members-death

 

While I have not found any official reference to Barbados requirements, it looks like a lot, if not all of the repatriation is also by charter flights.

 

https://www.gob.mx/sre/prensa/mexican-cruise-ship-crew-members-return-from-barbados?idiom=en

 

From this one it does look like Barbados is requiring charter flights

 

https://barbadostoday.bb/2020/05/27/scores-of-stranded-bajans-return-via-cruise-ship/

 

The reason that there are charter flights taking crew from Barbados is not that the government requires charter or noncommercial transportation, but that there are no inbound commercial flights to Barbados at this time.

 

For a list of crew change restrictions, here is one of the listings for all countries, from a ship's agency:

 

https://www.iss-shipping.com/pages/coronavirus-port-country-implications

[npcl]

29 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The reason that there are charter flights taking crew from Barbados is not that the government requires charter or noncommercial transportation, but that there are no inbound commercial flights to Barbados at this time.

 

For a list of crew change restrictions, here is one of the listings for all countries, from a ship's agency:

 

https://www.iss-shipping.com/pages/coronavirus-port-country-implications

Thanks I was looking for anything from the government site on requirements, but all I could find was the articles.