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NCL cancels all August and September sailings

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On 6/16/2020 at 5:50 PM, seaman11 said:

This is why.  The governers of florida and texas. Cost us august/sept.  Maybe more if they keep being in denial.  

Governors didn’t cause this. The Chinese government lying about it and letting planes leave China but not fly within China when the outbreak started are to blame. We would have been sailing months ago if it weren’t for that. Governors can’t stay locked down forever; the economy is vital too. There are people out of work for months who can’t pay their rent or utilities or buy food. That can’t be ignored.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, GlamorousGirl said:

cruises are being unfairly targeted.

 

Except you can make a good case that planes service essential travel. Note there is a Department of State Global Level 4 "Do Not Travel" notice and given Florida is a hotspot (and a major cruise hub) seems like non-essential travel like cruises shouldn't qualify. Florida didn't want to accept any cruise ships last time. Who wants to give them another chance to refuse people returning home.

 

Your flight might have been full. Who's trips on that flight were eseential is the core question.

 

Can anyones cruise trip be classed as essential? 

Edited by pmd98052

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There is plenty to go around in playing and shifting the blame games, check those mirrors first.

 

This administrator, according to one official advisor, is preparing for this Fall's second wave.  However. another high profile director is saying otherwise, that we are still in the middle of the first wave and the worst isn't over yet for many states, cautioning ... Just a matter of time that someone else will disagree and announce otherwise.  I have yet to check twitter today, LOL.  

 

Let's be real, even if businesses remain open and unaffected, and that cruise ships are allowed to embark and disembark around the world, many will choose to stay put and not sail - while others will go ahead & take their chance (and likely complain of being stranded onboard, like when Florida shut their ports to ships returning to disembark._  It is a matter of taking personal responsibilities and following best practices from public health authorities, not just those in the US and/or WHO, but also what has seemed to work in other countries - playing the numbers game in being reported, misleading or not.  Now is not the time for post-mortem on the failure, there is plenty to go around ... on issues like long-term care/nursing home deaths of residents and healthcare personnel, and the lack of PPE, etc. 

 

Whatever CDC and the CLIA choose to do next, might and might not change the mindset of other countries with their borders closed to visitors, including flights and cruise ships.  Cargo and merchant vessels continued to sail in keeping the global critical supply chains going - essential missions, unlike leisure travel.  

 

Today is a good day in NYC, we moved with pain into phase 2 of a 4 phase reopening - we grief for our personal friends that lost loved ones in battling the virus and relieved that others on the frontlines recovered from being infected.  The economic hardship is real as some of our tenants for our rental properties hasn't been able to pay their rent for 4+ months and not sure if they can next month either - and, we can't ignore our bills as landlord, including utilities and insurance, taxes & maintenance.  

 

Wish all well and healthy.  Do wear a mask, wash hands with soap & water often and social distance whenever possible - it is about respect, caring and possibly saving lives, including your own and the protection of others, not a question of freedom & liberty.  Of course, feel free to disagree and if you don't like the comments - use the "ignore list" - for your convenience. 

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1 hour ago, GlamorousGirl said:

Governors didn’t cause this. The Chinese government lying about it and letting planes leave China but not fly within China when the outbreak started are to blame. We would have been sailing months ago if it weren’t for that. Governors can’t stay locked down forever; the economy is vital too. There are people out of work for months who can’t pay their rent or utilities or buy food. That can’t be ignored.

have you seen other countries curve. Seems some had the SAME Chinese government issues yet they have totally managed to avoid what the US is currently going through

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1 hour ago, pmd98052 said:

 

Yes individuals are willing to take the risk for sure. If you have a jar of 100 jelly beans and (to keep numbers simple) one of them would kill you who wouldn't eat a lovely jelly bean. It is worth the risk. I'm not being sarcastic there I mean it.

 

However what people miss is the law of large numbers. If I gather in a room of 100 people and hand out that same jar of jelly beans 1 person will die but no one is leaving the room until one person is dead. Now rinse/repeat for 330 million people in the USA alone and that is a LOT of dead people.

 

This isn't about individuals. Nor individual risk.

Cool Cruiser,

Good points, when evaluating risk, you must consider the population as a whole.  Whether cruising, flying or taking public transportation decisions have to be made.

 

NYC kept the subway open, but reduced trains, leading to packed crowds at the peak of the crisis.  Why let people on the subway, one could ask.   I don't live in NYC, but I suspect it was because without the subways even the business that were still open, hospitals, etc had to have a way for people to get to work.  People died because of that decision, but what was the choice?

 

Shutting down the airlines totally would have bankrupted the airlines and that would not be good.  Also, some people did need to be transported from place to place.

 

Further, COVID-19 stats show an extremely low risk even for persons my age (72) without underlying conditions.  It is less than a fraction of one percent fatality rate.  Every time a new SARS or FLU comes along, the economy can't shut down.

 

As for individuals taking the risk, I was a bit shocked by my barber, who is almost 80 and has one lung.  He is still cutting hair now.   I asked him why and he said he loves his work and staying home would be like dying.  Each to their own.

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31 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

Every time a new SARS or FLU comes along, the economy can't shut down.

 

This is not a new SARS or Flu scenario though is it. We've had SARS and Flu scenarios in the past 10 years. Look at the death totals from those without even shutting down. Now look at the death totals from COVID19 with the shut down. I think you will agree it is a dramatic difference. COVID is not SARS or the Flu.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, pmd98052 said:

 

This is not a new SARS or Flu scenario though is it. We've had SARS and Flu scenarios in the past 10 years. Look at the death totals from those without even shutting down. Now look at the death totals from COVID19 with the shut down. I think you will agree it is a dramatic difference. COVID is not SARS or the Flu.

Actually, this is a new SARS virus:  It's techincal name is this: SARS-CoV-2.  My company works with the testing of all types of drug trials and vaccines.  We recently have bid out many and signed many for the COVID-19 trials so just letting you know this is a new SARS virus.  Different than before, of course, but in the same family.

Edited by sykimball1498

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Positive tests are up in Fl. Deaths continue to fall...

 

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

 

Same thing happening in GA..National News wants no part of falling deaths..it simply doesn’t fit the narrative..

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3 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Positive tests are up in Fl. Deaths continue to fall...

 

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

 

Same thing happening in GA..National News wants no part of falling deaths..it simply doesn’t fit the narrative..

apparently there is a difference in RESIDENT deaths which is your chart and ACTUAL deaths of anyone in Florida which is this chart. It shows that deaths are NOT way down in Florida

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

 

the totals are the same on BOTH of the charts (ArcGIS and Worldometer) BUT your chart only counts for 'Resident' deaths.

 

Florida still has an issue which DOES fit the narrative

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sykimball1498 said:

Actually, this is a new SARS virus:  It's techincal name is this: SARS-CoV-2.  My company works with the testing of all types of drug trials and vaccines.  We recently have bid out many and signed many for the COVID-19 trials so just letting you know this is a new SARS virus.  Different than before, of course, but in the same family.

 

Yes aware it is the same family. I am pointing out that they are rather different in their lethality and spread.

 

SARS kills 10%, COVID19 less than 1% but the huge difference is SARS only infects others once symptoms are clear and present and the person is very sick. COVID19 as we know can be spread by people with zero symptoms. So despite its case fatality rate being much lower it is much more dangerous as you can see in the data on numbers of dead.

Edited by pmd98052

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12 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report

 

Click on the tab for Deaths, right below the map of the GA Counties.  

 

More info from GA, where I live, ...our Gov was chastised for early opening too..deaths plummeting here also, cases are up, as testing is.

georgia is doing better than Florida but since this is a cruise site, I will say that if we ALL dont get the numbers down.... no one is cruising and Florida would be a hub for cruising so if the deaths dont go down and positive cases keep skyrocketing... no one is going to cruise. NY has number that have gone down significantly but I dont bring up NY because we need to have a collectivism attitude to get this under control enough to start to cruise

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32 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

 

 

Thanks for posting this video. Very funny. I thought the editing was excellent to match up the scenes with Don Henley's lyrics. During this time of "new normal" with cruising completely shut down, I think we all needed a laugh. Thanks again.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/16/2020 at 10:10 PM, david_sobe said:

Aww man, I was hoping Seaman was going to make it this time 😒

 

Oh well there is always 2021 hope


We are exploding with Covid down here.  Record cases yesterday in Broward. Miami stopped the opening process to the next phase.  State of Florida stopped reporting hospital counts for Covid.  Things not looking good.  Governor in denial.

 

On 6/16/2020 at 10:50 PM, seaman11 said:

This is why.  The governers of florida and texas. Cost us august/sept.  Maybe more if they keep being in denial.  

 

4 hours ago, GlamorousGirl said:

Governors didn’t cause this. The Chinese government lying about it and letting planes leave China but not fly within China when the outbreak started are to blame. We would have been sailing months ago if it weren’t for that. Governors can’t stay locked down forever; the economy is vital too. There are people out of work for months who can’t pay their rent or utilities or buy food. That can’t be ignored.

 

The following, from a post today (by a Floridian) on another cruiseline thread, confirms what is being reported here and is clearly evident to the vast majority....yet others, incredibly, remain in denial:

 

"Florida currently has a very high COVID-19 infection rate spiking higher every day.  Beaches and bars are open and masks are optional.  Come on down!"

Edited by hamrag

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1 hour ago, pmd98052 said:

 

Yes aware it is the same family. I am pointing out that they are rather different in their lethality and spread.

 

SARS kills 10%, COVID19 less than 1% but the huge difference is SARS only infects others once symptoms are clear and present and the person is very sick. COVID19 as we know can be spread by people with zero symptoms. So despite its case fatality rate being much lower it is much more dangerous as you can see in the data on numbers of dead.

 

It is indeed the perfect evolution of the virus.  Not so deadly that it infects you and you can infect lots more people, and then that exponential number of infected a fair number of the weakest die.   

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6 hours ago, GlamorousGirl said:

Governors didn’t cause this. The Chinese government lying about it and letting planes leave China but not fly within China when the outbreak started are to blame. We would have been sailing months ago if it weren’t for that. Governors can’t stay locked down forever; the economy is vital too. There are people out of work for months who can’t pay their rent or utilities or buy food. That can’t be ignored.

Being out of work has zero to do with packing bars with no masks on.   Lets be real you give ppl an inch they take a mile.  Yes businesses should slowly open , but there is a smart way of doing it (see VA governor)  the virus is here so we cant do what ifs on that, we just have to deal with it, and do the smart thing.  Texas and Florida are not doing the smart thing. 

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7 hours ago, GlamorousGirl said:

Governors didn’t cause this. The Chinese government lying about it and letting planes leave China but not fly within China when the outbreak started are to blame. We would have been sailing months ago if it weren’t for that. Governors can’t stay locked down forever; the economy is vital too. There are people out of work for months who can’t pay their rent or utilities or buy food. That can’t be ignored.

 

Agreed, but does this country and states have to open so stupidly.

 

To be honest the US government has been very loose with the truth and guidance and have had no clear strategy and why we have the mess that we have in the US.

 

 

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This is as clear a picture showing testing is NOT the cause of the recent spike in Florida

 

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/action/report_archive/state/state_reports_latest.pdf

 

Florida Department of Health website

 

https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/#latest-stats

 

 

Last 2 weeks of testing (besides yesterday there is NO clear increase in testing in the last 2 weeks)

 

image.thumb.png.650009cf3696359c46e299b327954c9e.png

 

 

More proof? Here is the breakdown between the number of cases and the positive results. If the theory of testing causes more positive results, the chart should show about the same percentage of infected but that would amount to more cases since there is more testing.. This does NOT show this

 

image.thumb.png.b24675dfd9f351e00f29b3fba019dbb2.png

 

Here is what I see

 

06/11 - 06/17

 

234,683 tests

21,186 positive tests

 

9% positive rate

 

06/18 - 06/24

 

244,976 tests

32,345 positive tests

 

13% positive rate.

 

If it was just testing, the percentages would be the same. the positive rate has gone up 5%. Also, there is a huge jump yesterday that gave 06/18 - 06/24 more tests. if they did the same amount as the other days, the amount of tests would be LOWER for the last 7 days.

 

they are not increasing testing... and testing is NOT the reason for more positive cases. this is 100% proof by the Florida Department of Health

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

My goodness all the posters who keep thinking you're going on cruises in 2020.  You're not going on cruises in 2020.  You're probably not going on cruises in 2021.  If you keep putting money down on deposits for new cruises you are setting it on fire.  As predicted, months ago, the cruise lines have started selling their ships for scrap:  https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/cruise-industry-downsizing-begins-with-first-sale-of-a-ship-for-scrap  It's not even a given at this point that kids will be back in school in the fall and people still think they're getting on cruise ships?  It's ridiculous.

 

Cruising is dead for the foreseeable future.  Best to move on.

Edited by Fido Chuckwagon

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10 hours ago, Fido Chuckwagon said:

My goodness all the posters who keep thinking you're going on cruises in 2020.  You're not going on cruises in 2020.  You're probably not going on cruises in 2021.  If you keep putting money down on deposits for new cruises you are setting it on fire.  As predicted, months ago, the cruise lines have started selling their ships for scrap:  https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/cruise-industry-downsizing-begins-with-first-sale-of-a-ship-for-scrap  It's not even a given at this point that kids will be back in school in the fall and people still think they're getting on cruise ships?  It's ridiculous.

 

Cruising is dead for the foreseeable future.  Best to move on.

 

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You clearly have clairvoyant powers.

I have cancer. Please advise how many more cruises I have left.

Many thanks.

Cheers, John.

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You clearly have clairvoyant powers. I have cancer. Please advise how many more cruises I have left. Many thanks.

Cheers, John.

 

 

 It doesn’t take a seer to see that the cruise industry is in deep distress. No revenue for six months except for what they have fleeced from rebooking credits instead of issuing refunds. Now the lines have started disposing ships. So the current situation is grim for the cruise industry and the future is too.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bollinge said:

You clearly have clairvoyant powers.

I have cancer. Please advise how many more cruises I have left.

Many thanks.

Cheers, John.

First sorry about your cancer. NOW in the US the numbers are staggering and doesn't appear to be any reduction in the near future.

 

I know people say we can't trust the media, however I just listened to 3 Drs. on the national news THIS morning saying we do have a serious problem. One can blame it on more testing, no masks, no social Distancing or more people traveling.

 

It's probably a combination of all, still a disturbing trend that needs to start going the other way. 

 

As many cruises are now cancelled until October chances are starting to look like that won't be the last of suspensions.

 

The cruise lines have stated that they could go 1 year with no cruises, I don't think it will be until next spring but winter (January/February) is a distinct possibility.

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48 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

First sorry about your cancer. NOW in the US the numbers are staggering and doesn't appear to be any reduction in the near future.

 

I know people say we can't trust the media, however I just listened to 3 Drs. on the national news THIS morning saying we do have a serious problem. One can blame it on more testing, no masks, no social Distancing or more people traveling.

 

It's probably a combination of all, still a disturbing trend that needs to start going the other way. 

 

As many cruises are now cancelled until October chances are starting to look like that won't be the last of suspensions.

 

The cruise lines have stated that they could go 1 year with no cruises, I don't think it will be until next spring but winter (January/February) is a distinct possibility.

 

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