CCL Selling Some Ships

[Ombud]

Could Coral be next? If going by size not just age then:

Pacific - 670 (Niche market? Chinese rivers? That JV market will be huge)

Coral - last of the 2000 passenger ships, built 2002 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Ombud

[Coral]

1 minute ago, Ombud said:

Could Coral be next? If going by size not just age then:

 

Coral - last of the 2000 passenger ships, built 2002 

No - they are going to keep her around due to her size.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Coral

[Ombud]

Why? Would she be less profitable? 

[Coral]

6 minutes ago, Ombud said:

Why? Would she be less profitable? 

That and the Island are great ships for World Cruises, etc... They can't fill the larger ships for World Cruise and some other locations outside of the norm.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Coral

[mtnesterz]

16 hours ago, woodscruise said:

So from the above you can see the majority of Princess fleet is destination P&OA.

Inclined to agree. View at the Carnival fleets as a whole.  The Star and Golden are moving over to P&O Aus. Possibly follow this path with the Grand. Despite only being a year newer than the P&O Pacific Explorer, a Sun-class ship. The Golden holds 500 additional passengers and more balcony cabins. 

The Coral and Island Princess are needed for smaller ports worldwide. Carnival should hold onto the Elation and Paradise for their port requirements.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by mtnesterz

[Ombud]

@Coralso there are ports downunder that cannot accommodate tenders? Is that why Coral is shifted there as Sea / Sun leave? Sky / Enchanted / Discovery  (and perhaps Majestic) come up here & future TAs to increase passenger load while decreasing number / age of ships? I need to read their quarterly 

 

Still wonder about Grand (age) + other older ones in HAL grouping. Time to speed up lightening the fleet due to Covid-19 

[bubbapuck]

17 minutes ago, Ombud said:

@Coralso there are ports downunder that cannot accommodate tenders? Is that why Coral is shifted there as Sea / Sun leave? Sky / Enchanted / Discovery  (and perhaps Majestic) come up here & future TAs to increase passenger load while decreasing number / age of ships? I need to read their quarterly 

 

Still wonder about Grand (age) + other older ones in HAL grouping. Time to speed up lightening the fleet due to Covid-19 

 

I am looking at the Grand as a backup cruise out of Vancouver for my cruise that might be cancelled on the Sun. Crazy that it is this hard to get a cruise situated. I dont think the grand will go as it is Medallion Class already and is a good size for World and Alaska cruises.

[Ombud]

Update: a few corrections made by @mtnesterz:

Sold not transferred within corporation:
Costa Atlantica -> CSSC Carnival Cruise Shipping (JV had 14b. 60% Chinese stockholders / 40% CCL so $$ in)
Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC Carnival Cruise Shipping
Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
HAL Maasdam -> Seajets
HAL Veendam -> Seajets
P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
Sun Princess > Pacific World Peace Ships

 

Scrapped: 
Costa Victoria 
Carnival Fantasy
Carnival Inspiration 
Carnival Fascination 
Carnival Imagination 

 

Announced but buyer unknown:
POAU Pacific Aria -> 
POAU Pacific Dawn -> 
Sea Princess > 

 

WHO'S #18?? CSSC is looking for another? Which ship is smallest / least profitable? Or would they buy a new one (Majestic is not a medallion vessel) 

[Ombud]

thank you @Seacruise & @mtnesterz for the HAL updates!! Some dust settled FAST imho this will calm down for a while now. 

 

Sold (not transferred within CCL):
Costa Atlantica -> CSSC Carnival Cruise Shipping (JV 60% Chinese stockholders / 40% CCL)
Costa Mediterranea -> CSSC Carnival Cruise Shipping
Costa neoRomantica -> Celestyal Cruises Experience 
HAL Amsterdam -> Fred Olsen Bolette 
HAL Rotterdam -> Fred Olsen Borealis 
HAL Maasdam -> Seajets Aegan Myths
HAL Veendam -> Seajets Aegean Majesty 
P&O Oceana -> Seajets Queen of the Oceans 
Sun Princess > Pacific World Peace Ships

 

Scrapped: 
Costa Victoria 
Carnival Fantasy
Carnival Inspiration 
Carnival Fascination 
Carnival Imagination 

 

Announced but buyer unknown:
POAU Pacific Aria -> 
POAU Pacific Dawn -> 
Sea Princess > 

 

WHO'S #18??

Edited September 20, 2020 by Ombud

[Ombud]

With eliminating 18 ships comes with

"7,000 termination letters to Carnival officers and crew members ... laying off eight captains (masters), five staff captains, five guest service managers, six executive chefs and six hotel directors  .... one hundred and twenty crew members and officers working in the bridge across the Carnival fleet of ship. "[https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/09/articles/disease/carnival-cruise-line-terminates-thousands-of-crew-members-and-senior-shipboard-officers/ ]

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, Ombud said:

With eliminating 18 ships comes with

"7,000 termination letters to Carnival officers and crew members ... laying off eight captains (masters), five staff captains, five guest service managers, six executive chefs and six hotel directors  .... one hundred and twenty crew members and officers working in the bridge across the Carnival fleet of ship. "[https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/09/articles/disease/carnival-cruise-line-terminates-thousands-of-crew-members-and-senior-shipboard-officers/ ]

That is truly a shame. You have to feel sorry for all of those people.

Edited September 21, 2020 by ontheweb
corrected typo sham to shame

[Ombud]

Sad. But with 18 ships leaving and only 2 coming is there's bound to be layoffs unless there's a lot of retirements. 

 

[Ombud]

Just compiled this list. 

Ships delivered before 2000:
Carnival Ecstasy 1991 - least efficient in fleet
Carnival Sensation 1993 - least efficient in fleet
AIDAcara 1996
POAU Explorer 1997
Carnival Elation 1998
Carnival Paradise 1998
Grand Princess 1998
Carnival Paradise 1998
Pacific Princess 1999
HAL MS Volendam 1999
HAL MS Zaandam 2000
PO Aurora 2000

New builds due to be delivered;
Princess Enchanted 2020
PO Iona 2020
Costa Firenze 2020
Discovery Princess 2021
AIDAcosma May 2021
HAL MSRotterdam July 2021
Seabourn Venture December 2021

 

I wonder if some of those 2021s will be pushed back and even more of the pre-2000s out. 🍿

[Ombud]

Older CCL ships delivered before 2001. Guesses as to who's #18: (mine in red,  yes 3)
Carnival Ecstasy 1991
Carnival Sensation 1993
AIDAcara 1996
POAU Explorer 1997
Carnival Elation 1998
Carnival Paradise 1998
Grand Princess 1998
Carnival Paradise 1998
Pacific Princess 1999
HAL MS Volendam 1999
HAL MS Zaandam 2000
PO Aurora 2000

New CCL builds due to be delivered;
Princess Enchanted 2020
PO Iona 2020
Costa Firenze 2020
Carnival Mardi Gras February 2021
Discovery Princess 2021
AIDAcosma May 2021
HAL MSRotterdam July 2021
Seabourn Venture December 2021

[mtnesterz]

While this thread concerns itself with Carnival's fleets, it is worth noting that all those secondary lines which have picked up surplus first line stock will also be disposing, probably scrapping, their older ships. Regarding job losses, bigger ships, more crew, more support, more upkeep. Some fleets expanding into new markets, like Seajets, going from no "cruise" ships to three.  Hope there will be some offset internationally to job losses.

If the Elation and Paradise take over Mobile and Tampa, then Ecstasy and Sensation. But if too many ships go, there will be less revenue when things restart. Plus or minus, I don't think we have heard the final tally. 

[Crystabel]

Interesting that Princess shows that all cruises on the Sea Princess are sold out until October 2021. 

 

[bubbapuck]

2 minutes ago, Crystabel said:

Interesting that Princess shows that all cruises on the Sea Princess are sold out until October 2021. 

 

must be a popular ship! 😉

[mtnesterz]

Same for the Sun. Dec, 2020 to Aug 2021.

Edited September 21, 2020 by mtnesterz

[Crystabel]

I guess Princess is telling us something without telling us. 🙃

 

[Ombud]

It would not be cost effective to bring back up to sell it off. BUT it takes time to play musical ships.  They will want to reassign pax hoping the reassignments  at same embarkation ports / almost same date are acceptable and they don't have to refund (just sweeten with a little OBC). 

[azbirdmom]

1 hour ago, Crystabel said:

I guess Princess is telling us something without telling us. 🙃

 

 

That's the usual step that happens before they tell you they have pulled the plug on one or many cruises.  That's what happened with our Baltic cruise on the Sky that was recently cancelled and also our October Tahiti cruise.  😞 

[V_icki_e]

1 hour ago, Ombud said:

It would not be cost effective to bring back up to sell it off. BUT it takes time to play musical ships.  They will want to reassign pax hoping the reassignments  at same embarkation ports / almost same date are acceptable and they don't have to refund (just sweeten with a little OBC). 

 

That's a really interesting thought!  Considering that Australia is still very 'closed' due to Covid, I just presumed that they would sell the Sea and Sun and cancel the corresponding cruises.   For my particular cruise in early February, the Sea was to be sailing from Freemantle in the state of Western Australia (WA).  WA has all land and sea borders completely shut with firm indication that they will not be open by Christmas.  I wonder if Princess would even consider mucking around with trying to get a new ship/itinerary in there?? 

[azbirdmom]

Well the Sun and Sea have now been pulled from the list of ships when searching for a cruise.  This is what our cruise on the Sun looks like when I pull up my saved cruises:

 

 

And in my list of upcoming cruises, this is how our booked Sun cruise appears:

 

 

Yet there is still no official word that our cruise has been cancelled.  As usual Princess communication is really lacking.

[V_icki_e]

31 minutes ago, azbirdmom said:

Well the Sun and Sea have now been pulled from the list of ships when searching for a cruise.  This is what our cruise on the Sun looks like when I pull up my saved cruises:

 

 

And in my list of upcoming cruises, this is how our booked Sun cruise appears:

 

 

Yet there is still no official word that our cruise has been cancelled.  As usual Princess communication is really lacking.

 

Yes, exactly the same on my personaliser yet when I called Princess, the rep said there was no information about the Sea or Sun leaving the fleet???  Surely one of these days a booked cruise of mine will actually sail 😞 

[azbirdmom]

Just now, V_icki_e said:

 

Yes, exactly the same on my personaliser yet when I called Princess, the rep said there was no information about the Sea or Sun leaving the fleet???  Surely one of these days a booked cruise of mine will actually sail 😞 

 

They really should have learned by now to get their ducks in a row before doing stuff like this.  And I feel your pain - this is the 4th cruise that Princess has cancelled on us since March.