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Kokomo91165

Suspension extended to 9/15

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Part of the issue is that you have crews from multiple countries working on the cruise ships.

You also have to get the ships all back in full working order.

You have to get all the supplies you need, with the minimal manning the ships have  would assume they have worked thru anything that was in the freezer or refrigerators.

 

If I were to be part of the planning I would look at cruises out of Florida for 3-4 day cruises with the caveat being that you could not fly in but had to be local the port.  That would eliminate the people flying in and they would be able to get their "feet wet" as to how things work.  Maybe have one or two cruises for employees vendors working in Florida and see how the cruise worked and how the flow was with reduced capacity running at 50% I had read was the break even point I had read for the larger ships.  So call it 60% with reduced staffing and add have flexible dining with spacing and reservations so that they could roll the dining room and not have too many people in at one time.

 

If there were no major issues then I would look at allowing people to fly in and see how that worked out.

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1 hour ago, joelheather said:

CDC is not mandating this.  There was a lengthy article in travel agent trade publication about preventing future lawsuits.  This is something discussed with A team of epidemiology experts, and other health professionals.  Cruise lines need to do this as it can also block legionnaires and other airborne pathogens from circulating in the HVAC systems.  CDC did not mandate robotic cleaners. But the cruise lines are buying them too.

It's funny, that legionella has been around for decades, yet the epidemiologists at CDC have not required any actions in HVAC systems other than sanitizing pads in the air handler drain pans, where the legionella breeds.  And, yet the CDC does require that shower heads be removed and sanitized every 6 months to prevent legionella, which they consider to be a far more viable transmission vector than HVAC ductwork.  And, to say that HEPA filters and such will help block airborne pathogens needs to have a study of the viral/bacterial load entering the existing filters in the HVAC systems.  It's real easy to say "look, no virus is exiting the HEPA filter" when there were none entering the filter to begin with.

 

I've seen suppliers suggesting that robotic cleaners will be used in the future, but I haven't seen any indication that any cruise line is actually purchasing them, or that they will be widespread.

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45 minutes ago, BND said:

That's because the people who answer the phones haven't been told what is happening yet.  They only know what they see on their screens.  

The average cruise critic poster knows more than CSR's know.

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54 minutes ago, JoeFan said:

 

Is Disney World or Universal essential? Are movie theaters essential?

They are all opening up. Disney will have way more people than a cruise.

I suggest people check out what Disney is doing when they open. They have a pretty complex plan. They are delayed so to create the software they will be using in the park. 
 

You can get this info from the My Disney App. Here is some info but requires some time to read all the detail. They are eliminating the density issue. Also, masks are required. Only pass holders have access to the reservation system for park access. Everything will be limited access from parks, to attractions, dinning, and lodging. 
 

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2020/05/an-update-on-walt-disney-world-resort-reservations/?CMP=KNC-FY20_WDW_ACT_DOM_WBR_NA_COVID|G|5201265.RR.AM.01.02|MJF7CTD|BR|438168641978&keyword_id=kwd-98099335|dm|disney world tickets|438168641978|e|5238:3|&gclid=CjwKCAjwxLH3BRApEiwAqX9arY4LpAD3RSs8eb1qjyd5QE84xt3VNoe3dZ0ePksHFOP_qDcDwfwNlRoC4PEQAvD_BwE

 

M8

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1 hour ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

Don't bank on that.  Could it happen?  Maaaaaaybe.  Will it happen?  Most likely not.

 

Agree.  Not a lot of history of successful vaccines to corona virus.  Actually, I think the number is zero.  Could happen, technology is amazing.  

 

jc

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1 minute ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

Carnival's announcement about the suspension. Interesting wording

Sounds like the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. 

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6 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

Carnival's announcement about the suspension. Interesting wording. 

 

On their website you can’t book any September cruises, so they might extend the suspension until October.

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6 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I suggest people check out what Disney is doing when they open. They have a pretty complex plan. They are delayed so to create the software they will be using in the park. 
 

You can get this info from the My Disney App. Here is some info but requires some time to read all the detail. They are eliminating the density issue. Also, masks are required. Only pass holders have access to the reservation system for park access. Everything will be limited access from parks, to attractions, dinning, and lodging. 
 

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2020/05/an-update-on-walt-disney-world-resort-reservations/?CMP=KNC-FY20_WDW_ACT_DOM_WBR_NA_COVID|G|5201265.RR.AM.01.02|MJF7CTD|BR|438168641978&keyword_id=kwd-98099335|dm|disney world tickets|438168641978|e|5238:3|&gclid=CjwKCAjwxLH3BRApEiwAqX9arY4LpAD3RSs8eb1qjyd5QE84xt3VNoe3dZ0ePksHFOP_qDcDwfwNlRoC4PEQAvD_BwE

 

M8

 

Disney, like everyone else is checking boxes. Do we have hand washing stations? Check. Do we have touchless payment? Check. But you still need to touch the keypad to enter your PIN. Do we have distance markers on the ground? Check.

I am overjoyed that they finally are getting rid of the guards digging through your bags doing hand checks.

What are they going to do about the bio-metrics to enter the park? Are you still going to be required to touch the pole of germs?

 

But this won't stop people from being close to you. What about the switchbacks? You might be 6 feet behind the group in front of you, but what about the group to the left and right of you? Granted, they may have virtual queue up by then for the larger attractions, but there will still be lines.

 

Disney also plays games with park capacity numbers. If they are really serious about social distancing then they will need to be in the 20's for capacity. If you think Max capacity on when they actually close the parks to new guests, it is a sea of people everywhere. And even 50% of that is still not enough. So they better be serious about restricting crowds.

 

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I think that now is a good time to invest in companies making UVC Lights, these will kill the virus on surfaces so inside ductwork it could kill the virus as long as the length  vs  flow  provided enough time to kill the virus.  HEPA is great but anyone who has tried to breathe using a N95 mask will understand how hard it can be for an AC system to change over to a HEPA filter if  it was not designed the reduced airflow will cause issues.  UVC lights would not have the issue, they even have UVC lights that are supposed to be safe for people but will kill any virus on surfaces.

 

For me I am holding off, I am not one of those people that needs to be first to try anything!

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Ignoring Disney Cruise lines they do not have to focus on many ships and foreign based staff porting all over the world.  Most of it is outside.  Cruise ships have an inherent design issue.  Lots of people in a small enclosed space.

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2 hours ago, NateUpNorth said:

 

Into 2021 in one go just might finish off some cruise lines. I think the goal is keep the hope alive and use the money coming in from bookings to payout the money on cancellations. 30 - 60 days at a time revolving interest free loans.

That sounds like a Ponzi scheme.

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I seem to fail to see the comparison to amusement parks.  Sort of apple and oranges.  They have large number of visitors, yes.  Many of their employees are local and work full time.  Cruises do have large numbers of passengers but much different circumstances.  For 3, 4, 7, 14 or however many days, you are in very close quarters with your big extended family.  For years we have had great times with relatively minor issues.  Noro has tended to be the biggest cruise ship health issue.  Enter Covid.  Even the so called experts do not have valid answers.  Stay in lock down, no groups bigger than 5 or 10.  Masks will save us all, masks do absolutely nothing.  

I look forward to returning to cruising.  Like most here, I have small skin in the game with my cruise fare.  

The logistics of operating a cruise line are amazing.  Any small business owner can tell you how hard it is to find, train and retain employees.  They do it with crews from all around the world and it basically worked like a well oiled machine.  Getting back to cruising is going to take great efforts and lots of long hours.  

I appreciate all the work being done so we can all return to sea.  It is fun to pontificate here since we can all guess and contribute our 2 cents worth and more.

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The Australia - New Zealand cruising market is currently the only market in the world with next to zero Covid 19 cases.  Yet I don’t see one cruise company trying to send any ships into this market.  Why?  The cruise companies know it’s not the passengers where the risk is.  It’s the staff!  How do you staff a ship with 500-1000 people from all over the world & guarantee they don’t bring Covid 19 with them.  It can be done, but, it takes a lot of time & money to do so.  So...... there in lies the major stumbling block to cruises resuming...........

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28 minutes ago, JoeFan said:

But this won't stop people from being close to you. What about the switchbacks? You might be 6 feet behind the group in front of you, but what about the group to the left and right of you? Granted, they may have virtual queue up by then for the larger attractions, but there will still be lines.

Obviously you didn’t take the time to see what Disney is doing. The plan is to have no lines. Read the plan. It may not work but if anyone can manage it it would be Disney. 
 

M8

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Obviously you didn’t take the time to see what Disney is doing. The plan is to have no lines. Read the plan. It may not work but if anyone can manage it it would be Disney. 
 

M8

Impossible. And also not true.

Edited by JoeFan

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3 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Me too x 2. And thanks for finding them. 😁

 

And me too x 2. 😊

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JoeFan said:

 

Is Disney World or Universal essential? Are movie theaters essential?

They are all opening up. Disney will have way more people than a cruise.

One big difference between land attractions and a cruise ship is that on land, you are usually close to a hospital and respirators.

 

Out in the middle of the ocean, if a bunch of people get sick and need ventilators, there is not a hospital close by. There are very few US ports, if any, that are going to allow a foreign flagged ship to enter a US port with positive covid-19 patients, even US citizens. The CDC has already told the cruise lines they will need to seek help from the countries their ships are flagged in first.  Or work together to get a hospital ship where they can treat sick passengers. 

Edited by cured

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My favorite people are those that are going to book or switch to a September 16th sailing now and then are shocked when that is cancelled in another month.

 

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3 hours ago, NateUpNorth said:

Now will RCL extend the L&S option deadline past Aug 1? Would be in their best interests I would imagine.....

I would hope so. Seems likely.

 

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2 hours ago, pink845 said:

JoelHeather,

 

Ignore all the naysayers out there in CruiseCritic Land. I am on board with your opinions 1000 percent!   Hey, I love cruising, if I could do it monthly I would (but my husband has yet to retire!).  Seems he likes his job!   But, in agreement with you, I do not foresee cruising returning until perhaps early 2022.  And also, for those people who think that a vaccine is around the corner, think again.  72 candidates out there and three good ones so far being tested.  Also, those vaccines will not be available to the general public. Will go to the nations with the most vulnerabilities (already in health care crisis due to other issues, to health care front line providers and critical service people (police, fire), then the community nursing homes who house our most vulnerable.  At the bottom of the barrel the rest of us.  

 

Cruising would resume a whole lot of faster if people would follow some basic rules, one being wear a damn mask out in public, especially within indoor public places, malls, etc.    Masks are to protect others.  People just do not get it.  They think, oh I feel fine, I am not sick, no  sniffles, etc. etc. so why should I wear a mask. Well, buddy, you actually do not know if you have picked up the virus during your maskless outings and are now spreading asymptomatically to the unsuspecting who are also not wearing a mask because those poor souls think they super human and it will never happen to them!  And secondly, stay out of crowds.  Stay 6 feet apart! Wash ones hands!  

 

 Oh, it so very aggravating as both my sons are in the medical profession and they are having to deal with COVID patients and it is nasty nasty nasty.  Again people are so into themselves.   Again cruising and pre-pandemic life would return so much faster if people could be a little less selfish.   

No, the US federal government (along with others) have bankrolled these “fast track”  vaccine development programs, access to a pre determined number of doses is part of the deal. 

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3 hours ago, CruisingNole said:

 

You present yourself as a very credible source of information. 

Hey, it's on the internet.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet."  - Abe Lincoln

 

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24 minutes ago, JoeFan said:

Impossible. And also not true.

If you read the process they addressed lines (Switchbacks) and social distancing. Attractions will be by appointment/reservation only. It’s significant the dates they open and Disney was smart about this , IMO. Access to the theme parks will only be to those with Annual Passes and those staying in Disney Lodging. Significant because the majority of annual pass holders have blackout dates for July/August (others further down the road). Who wants to go to Disney in the heat of the summer. We never did. The capacity of the park is going to be very limited. Not all attractions will be open. No word yet which will be open. I can see where some changes might be made like the fake elevator in the Haunted Mansion. I can see them leaving the doors open on both sides. You know only the outer walls move?   It will be interesting to see how it works 

 

The My Disney App will be required. 
 

I’m curious what the capacity we will see. 

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