US Citizen - keep an eye on Schengen/EU potential of denying entry due to COVID failuresI

[calliopecruiser]

On 6/24/2020 at 7:32 AM, BlueRiband said:

The US had a task force in place in January when we had 10 cases...and banned flights from China that month. 

No.

That's a fact.  It didn't, it allowed tens of thousands of people to fly in from China.  It did limit their landing to a much fewer number of airports, but this idea of a "China ban" is a lie.  And that doesn't even mention flights from Europe, which had already registered Covid-19 cases a week before the US limited who could fly in from China.  

 

As for the task force......well, their actual effect is kind of dubious.   As we can tell.

 

22 hours ago, GlamorousGirl said:

The problem is we have a lot more testing - which inevitably means more cases. We did the right thing offering testing to anyone who wants it, symptoms or not, and other countries are punishing us for it.

Ha!

No, more testing does NOT mean more cases.  That's a scientific fact.  It's reality.  More testing just means you know about those cases, but they are there whether you see them or not.    It's object permanence, which most people learn before they're 2 years old.   Those cases will become sources of infection for others, they may become hospital cases, and they may become deaths.  Those cases are real, whether they're revealed in tests or not, and that's exactly why the actual case counts are undoubtedly higher than what's counted.   And, while testing might have been offered to anyone who wants it, I don't believe testing has been available to everyone who wants it.   Other countries are "punishing" the US not because of the number of cases, but because of the rate of infection, and the change in the rate of infection.  The number of cases is going up, the number of Covid hospitalizations is going up, and the lack of adherence to reasonable safety precautions is also going up. 

[calliopecruiser]

22 hours ago, GlamorousGirl said:

What’s really mind-blowing is that they’re closing the border to the US but not China! I guess we should have done a lot less testing like almost everyone else.

I had to say more.......

 

They're not closing their border to China because China has a handle on the disease, their case rate is very low, and when they see an outbreak, they jump right on managing it and stopping the spread.   They were in horrible condition, like Italy, Spain, and the US, but unlike the US they got a handle on it, brought their numbers and infections down, and for the most part, kept it down.  They did massive amounts of testing (including things like mobile MRIs), and did massive amounts of infection control (of course it was easier to do that because they're an authoritarian state with full control, and cooperation from the people there...but even democracies like Taiwan and S. Korea have done more testing, contact tracing, and control).

 

The US wasted a lot of time because of politically-motivated lies, and it is still doing a horrible job in controlling this virus.  Even if they are doing more testing, they're not doing a very good job of contact tracing, nor are they doing a good job of instituting and enforcing reasonable and helpful infection control methods.   

[K32682]

Across the border in Canada we are testing more and new cases are dropping.  Meanwhile, in many U.S. states new cases are growing.  The testing argument that if you test less you'll get fewer new cases is beyond stupid.  It's like me saying I've stopped gaining weight because I no longer weigh myself.  I'll just ignore the tight clothes and America can just ignore the overflowing hospital ICUs and morgues. 

[dogs4fun]

10 minutes ago, K32682 said:

The testing argument that if you test less you'll get fewer new cases is beyond stupid.  It's like me saying I've stopped gaining weight because I no longer weigh myself.  I'll just ignore the tight clothes and America can just ignore the overflowing hospital ICUs and morgues. 

Great analogy! Wish I could simply ignore the misinformed assertions frequently promulgated by my compatriots. Unfortunately these same people are negatively impacting the lives of those of us who do not deny scientific fact. Sad

Edited June 25, 2020 by dogs4fun

[navybankerteacher]

21 minutes ago, dogs4fun said:

Great analogy! Wish I could simply ignore the misinformed assertions frequently promulgated by my compatriots. Unfortunately these same people are negatively impacting the lives of those of us who do not deny scientific fact. Sad

Sadly, it will take a fair number of these people (or at least their close relatives) to die before they might actually start to think, and to be willing to apply a little self discipline.

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

I never said anything about reducing testing, and definitely don't support reducing testing. My point is knowing how to understand statistics and their meaning. I think you get that.

 

I do get that.  I was agreeing with you about testing.   Sorry it didn't translate well.  

[sparks1093]

On 6/23/2020 at 3:51 PM, slidergirl said:

I was hanging out on the couch when I heard this come across the TV:  The Schengen consortium (or EU, I can't remember which, sorry), may ban flights from the US and US Citizens from entering because of the failure of the US to control COVID-19 in the country.  The decision is expected next week.  This could have an effect on any cruisers who were hoping to get in a European cruise before the end of the year...   

We aren't going to Europe for a cruise but to visit family so we are definitely keeping an eye on this. We've rescheduled once and will do so again if necessary.

[ontheweb]

22 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

We aren't going to Europe for a cruise but to visit family so we are definitely keeping an eye on this. We've rescheduled once and will do so again if necessary.

Good luck with that. I hope you have no problem.

 

It's too bad that they cannot or will not see which states may have it under as good or better control than European countries as opposed to which are spiking.

[SelectSys]

I have no problem with the EU keeping US citizens and others residing in the US out based on their national interest.    All countries should set their policy based on what they view as best.   

 

From a North American perspective, Canadian and US testing rates aren't all that different.  As of yesterday Canada has performed tests of 6.7% of their population and the US 8.7% of their population.   However, for a variety of reasons - cultural, economic, political -  the Canadian case rate is less than half of the US  .27% versus .73% and is declining.  As such, it seems likely that the EU will accept Canadians before Americans. 

 

Links if you want to check my numbers:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107034/covid19-cases-deaths-tests-canada/

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

 

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that travel to Europe is off the table for the foreseeable future. 

 

 

 

 

[K32682]

3 hours ago, SelectSys said:

From a North American perspective, Canadian and US testing rates aren't all that different.  As of yesterday Canada has performed tests of 6.7% of their population and the US 8.7% of their population.   However, for a variety of reasons - cultural, economic, political -  the Canadian case rate is less than half of the US  .27% versus .73% and is declining.  As such, it seems likely that the EU will accept Canadians before Americans. 

 

While it is possible the EU would accept Canadians before Americans it would be somewhat politically awkward for our government to reciprocate before the Canada-US border is opened to tourists.  

[ilikeanswers]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

It's too bad that they cannot or will not see which states may have it under as good or better control than European countries as opposed to which are spiking.

 

But what is the border control like between the states? Is anyone stopping someone from a state that is spiking from travelling to a state that does have their infection rates under control? 

[Atlanta07]

 
But what is the border control like between the states? Is anyone stopping someone from a state that is spiking from travelling to a state that does have their infection rates under control? 

There is not border control between states. There are a few states that have quarantine orders for those coming from states that have spiked, but I’m not sure they have a plan if those people don’t follow the quarantine rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, K32682 said:

 

While it is possible the EU would accept Canadians before Americans it would be somewhat politically awkward for our government to reciprocate before the Canada-US border is opened to tourists.  

Hmmmm.... that’s something that never occurred to me. 

[CruiserBruce]

18 minutes ago, Atlanta07 said:

There is not border control between states. There are a few states that have quarantine orders for those coming from states that have spiked, but I’m not sure they have a plan if those people don’t follow the quarantine rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Actually, back in March/April, one state...I think it was Rhode Island, was checking out of state plates at the border. Others are talking about it right now.

[SelectSys]

6 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

But what is the border control like between the states? Is anyone stopping someone from a state that is spiking from travelling to a state that does have their infection rates under control? 

 

This was discussed somewhat in the early days of COVID but was deemed impossible from a legal perspective and logistically almost impossible to implement. 

 

Many people have flooded out of the New York area to Florida and have probably contributed to the rise in cases there.  

 

The only state that is really controlling visitors in the US that I am aware of is Hawaii.  Travel is permitted to Hawaii, but a strict 14 day quarantine is required.  I believe a test may also be required.  People have been arrested there for breaking quarantine.    

[CruiserBruce]

10 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

The only state that is really controlling visitors in the US that I am aware of is Hawaii.  Travel is permitted to Hawaii, but a strict 14 day quarantine is required.  I believe a test may also be required.  People have been arrested there for breaking quarantine.    

Starting August 1, you have the choice of doing the 14 day quarantine, or having a negative Covid19 test within 72 hours of travel.

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, Atlanta07 said:

There is not border control between states. There are a few states that have quarantine orders for those coming from states that have spiked, but I’m not sure they have a plan if those people don’t follow the quarantine rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

What I hear from the NY/NJ/CT group:  If you fly into those states from one of the 5 that are the current "no go" list, they will know by the manifest and you will be "greeted" and asked for where you are staying, a contact number, and a directive that you must quarantine for 14 days and they WILL check.  If you drive, they will be pulling over vehicles with plates from those states and given the same "lecture."  By train - I haven't heard anything, so someone could theoretically get to, say DC, and the the train to NY...

 

 

[chipmaster]

On 6/24/2020 at 7:37 AM, GlamorousGirl said:

The problem is we have a lot more testing - which inevitably means more cases. We did the right thing offering testing to anyone who wants it, symptoms or not, and other countries are punishing us for it. What’s really mind-blowing is that they’re closing the border to the US but not China! I guess we should have done a lot less testing like almost everyone else.

 

POTUS is that you, LOL.

 

The issue isn't testing its the % of postives.

 

Second if you look around when you go out you find the curious US phenomena where freedom means behavior that flaunts all common sense for communicable disease.   Rest of the world even Europe seem to have better leadership and behavior.

 

BTW the major strain of the virus that infected the US on the Eastern Seaboard was from Europe, not the kung flu!

[clo]

3 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

POTUS is that you, LOL.

 

The issue isn't testing its the % of postives.

 

Second if you look around when you go out you find the curious US phenomena where freedom means behavior that flaunts all common sense for communicable disease.   Rest of the world even Europe seem to have better leadership and behavior.

 

BTW the major strain of the virus that infected the US on the Eastern Seaboard was from Europe, not the kung flu!

I know. I should just click on like or thanks but doesn't begin to cover it.

 

What about the fact that Houston is predicted to run out of ICU beds TOMORROW? That 23 (is that still right?) states have rising/surging infections. Have you seen the Boca Raton news with the "Karens" shrieking about their rights? I'm so sick of this. I only take an ambien to get over jet lag. But I took one last night before I screamed myself hoarse. No country in their right mind should allow us in right now. 

[slidergirl]

On 6/24/2020 at 8:37 AM, GlamorousGirl said:

The problem is we have a lot more testing - which inevitably means more cases. We did the right thing offering testing to anyone who wants it, symptoms or not, and other countries are punishing us for it. What’s really mind-blowing is that they’re closing the border to the US but not China! I guess we should have done a lot less testing like almost everyone else.

Someone is on the Kool-Aid...

 

Testing does not mean more cases.  It means more cases were caught.  If we stopped testing, it would not mean we had no cases.  And, if you do more testing, you want the number of case to go down as sign that things are working.  The hospitalization rates are going up again.   But, some just won't believe science.  

 

China has their outbreak out of control - the USA does not have control, it is running rampant. Masks are a political statement of which side of the aisle you are on.  Leadership has been ignoring and not speaking to the Task force for over 2 weeks.  Those on the task force are not allowed to speak without permission.  What is going on?????  

 

As Sen. Marco Rubio finally said: "Just wear the Da*n Mask!!"

[slidergirl]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

I know. I should just click on like or thanks but doesn't begin to cover it.

 

What about the fact that Houston is predicted to run out of ICU beds TOMORROW? That 23 (is that still right?) states have rising/surging infections. Have you seen the Boca Raton news with the "Karens" shrieking about their rights? I'm so sick of this. I only take an ambien to get over jet lag. But I took one last night before I screamed myself hoarse. No country in their right mind should allow us in right now. 

Houston is having to send adult patients to the Children's hospital because of lack of space.  People laughed at Houston when they rebuilt a field hospital last week.  No one's laughing now.  

The shreaking Karens were quite the show.  Of course, they were from a place called Rat Mouth... I think they may have found someone's stash of mushrooms...

 

We can't control this disease within it's borders - no country should allow us in. 

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, slidergirl said:

The shreaking Karens were quite the show.  Of course, they were from a place called Rat Mouth... I think they may have found someone's stash of mushrooms...

 

What the heck is a Karen😳? 

[clo]

7 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

What the heck is a Karen😳? 

LOL. I'm learning this stuff too.

 

"

Karen

Slang

 

 

 

Description

Description

Karen is a pejorative term used in the Western world for a woman perceived to be entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is considered appropriate or necessary. A common stereotype is that of a racist white woman who uses her privilege to demand her own way at the expense of others. Wikipedia

[pris993]

Yes, this is something to pay attention to.  I have been monitoring, US State Dept Travel Advisories for months now.  I have been checking on recommendations for Israel, not Europe.   I had a flight booked for past May, re booked for Sept in April... now doubt I will go this year... looking at flights for next March 2021.    Israel has a 14 day quarantine in place presently for all foreigners ... which is understandable.   USA has a similar quarantine.   I have no plans to travel til US State Department advises international travel is advisable.  

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, pris993 said:

Yes, this is something to pay attention to.  I have been monitoring, US State Dept Travel Advisories for months now.  I have been checking on recommendations for Israel, not Europe.   I had a flight booked for past May, re booked for Sept in April... now doubt I will go this year... looking at flights for next March 2021.    Israel has a 14 day quarantine in place presently for all foreigners ... which is understandable.   USA has a similar quarantine.   I have no plans to travel til US State Department advises international travel is advisable.  

And even when the US State Department stops advising against international travel, what countries if any will want US citizens entering their borders?