EU Guidelines for Cruising to Resume

[cbr663]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/07/01/eu-cruise-requirements-covid-19-screening-face-masks/5354654002/?fbclid=IwAR3USZMOEglbc_5nr4vOFQAtMI6Rg-pU1faPHUaRj8lrARn6JEqDcEU_-r8

 

There are a lot of guidelines, needless to say.  The Essentials include:

 

Essential prerequisites set forth by the EU include: 

 The monitoring of the epidemiological situation worldwide – prior and while cruising – including evolving rules and restrictions

A written contingency plan or plan to manage any COVID-19 outbreaks onboard

Arrangements for necessary medical treatment

Arrangements for repatriation

Arrangements for the shoreside quarantine of any passenger or crew member who had close contact with an infected party who have tested negative

Arrangement for the shoreside quarantine of any passenger or crew member who tested positive and is pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic after close contacted with an infected person

Adequate testing capacity onboard or pre-arranged with laboratories on shore

Proper training for crew members about COVID-19

A commitment to report any possible case to the next port of call immediately

Reduced capacity to allow for physical distancing standards to be implemented

Inspections from EU member states

[clo]

Well, good for them. Sincerely. Certainly more than we've gotten from the CDC.

[chipmaster]

33 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/07/01/eu-cruise-requirements-covid-19-screening-face-masks/5354654002/?fbclid=IwAR3USZMOEglbc_5nr4vOFQAtMI6Rg-pU1faPHUaRj8lrARn6JEqDcEU_-r8

 

There are a lot of guidelines, needless to say.  The Essentials include:

 

Essential prerequisites set forth by the EU include: 

 The monitoring of the epidemiological situation worldwide – prior and while cruising – including evolving rules and restrictions

A written contingency plan or plan to manage any COVID-19 outbreaks onboard

Arrangements for necessary medical treatment

Arrangements for repatriation

Arrangements for the shoreside quarantine of any passenger or crew member who had close contact with an infected party who have tested negative

Arrangement for the shoreside quarantine of any passenger or crew member who tested positive and is pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic after close contacted with an infected person

Adequate testing capacity onboard or pre-arranged with laboratories on shore

Proper training for crew members about COVID-19

A commitment to report any possible case to the next port of call immediately

Reduced capacity to allow for physical distancing standards to be implemented

Inspections from EU member states

 

OMG, can't wait to see what the lines are going to outline, smells like what many restaurants are doing, just close up.

[mnocket]

Looks like if you come in contact with someone who is infected, you get an unexpected vacation in shore-side quarantine.  I don't know how they will be able to identify who exactly came into contact with the infected person - MDR seating records, tour bus passengers & cabin mates?  It would sure be a bummer if your cruise was cut short and you  wound up in quarantine ashore because someone on your tour later tested positive for COVID.  I wonder who eats the cost of quarantine accommodations should that occur?  I'd also like to know what arrangements the cruise line has made for shoreside quarantine.

Edited July 1, 2020 by mnocket

[clo]

33 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

OMG, can't wait to see what the lines are going to outline, smells like what many restaurants are doing, just close up.

I'm curious if you think it's too much. I don't see how anything less would be anything more than lip service.

[klfrodo]

Good for the EU. At least someone is standing up and taking on a leadership role.

Edited July 2, 2020 by klfrodo

[chipmaster]

3 hours ago, mnocket said:

Looks like if you come in contact with someone who is infected, you get an unexpected vacation in shore-side quarantine.  I don't know how they will be able to identify who exactly came into contact with the infected person - MDR seating records, tour bus passengers & cabin mates?  It would sure be a bummer if your cruise was cut short and you  wound up in quarantine ashore because someone on your tour later tested positive for COVID.  I wonder who eats the cost of quarantine accommodations should that occur?  I'd also like to know what arrangements the cruise line has made for shoreside quarantine.

 

Why the whole ship; passengers and crew will be isolated for 7-14 days, cruising simply ain't going to happen.

 

Why they still allow such unrestricted international flying w/o pre testing is beyond me.   

[chipmaster]

3 hours ago, clo said:

I'm curious if you think it's too much. I don't see how anything less would be anything more than lip service.

 

I think it looks at the highest level pretty comprehensive, of course the devil is in the details.

 

What does screening and testing mean,

 

Who pays for quarantine and repatriation

 

What is considered save on board and what density is allowed, is it even business profitable to operate like this

 

What will shore protocol be.   Can't imagine 2000 people disembarking and embarking in a day and meeting what most would consider the needed protocol in this COVI19 era, why are they even thinking we could sail, unless we treat it just like the flu?

[clo]

2 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

I think it looks at the highest level pretty comprehensive, of course the devil is in the details.

 

Oh I agree that there are no details but at least they given some guidelines.

 

And I think they're a long, long way from sailing. I may be dead of old age by then 🙂 We're no where close to even getting on an airplane.

[navybankerteacher]

28 minutes ago, clo said:

Oh I agree that there are no details but at least they given some guidelines.

 

And I think they're a long, long way from sailing. I may be dead of old age by then 🙂 We're no where close to even getting on an airplane.

Of course, that  detailed (and intelligent) approach outlined means that they ARE a long way from sailing.   But the unthinking masses (you know, the people who brought about the new surge in infections across the South) in the US will be delighted to cruise the Caribbean with as little information as has yet been provided.

[clo]

11 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course, that  detailed (and intelligent) approach outlined means that they ARE a long way from sailing.   But the unthinking masses (you know, the people who brought about the new surge in infections across the South) in the US will be delighted to cruise the Caribbean with as little information as has yet been provided.

So do you think the EU requirements will be adopted by the CDC? I remain constantly confused 🙂

[cbr663]

I'm surprised that there hasn't been a reaction to some of the additional guidelines in the link such as:

 

Special precautions to "high risk" groups – those over the age of 65 or with underlying conditions, such as visiting a doctor to assess fitness to travel, different group activities, etc

 

Limiting of interaction (could be accomplished by dividing passengers and crew into groups for activities like meals, etc.).

 

Physical distancing: Using the outdoors for gathering, putting up plastic barriers in bars and restaurants and markings on where passengers are and are not allowed to sit to enforce social distancing.  

 

Face masks should be worn in cruise terminals by passengers and crew and in indoor spaces on board ships. 

 

Recommended to divide passengers and crew dining into groups

[clo]

2 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

I'm surprised that there hasn't been a reaction to some of the additional guidelines in the link such as:

 

Special precautions to "high risk" groups – those over the age of 65 or with underlying conditions, such as visiting a doctor to assess fitness to travel, different group activities, etc

 

Limiting of interaction (could be accomplished by dividing passengers and crew into groups for activities like meals, etc.).

 

Physical distancing: Using the outdoors for gathering, putting up plastic barriers in bars and restaurants and markings on where passengers are and are not allowed to sit to enforce social distancing.  

 

Face masks should be worn in cruise terminals by passengers and crew and in indoor spaces on board ships. 

 

Recommended to divide passengers and crew dining into groups

Sounds completely reasonable.

[Nic6318]

1 hour ago, clo said:

So do you think the EU requirements will be adopted by the CDC? I remain constantly confused 🙂

 

Hi Clo,

 

I think the requirements that the CDC may require could include some of these prerequisites, but you have to agree that the situation is completely different for them. They don't have to decide anything for now. After all, nobody is going to board a cruise ship leaving from a U.S. port for some time, at least till Oct,, right. We don't really know what going to happen next week, let alone 3 months from now. If nothing changes from the current status in coming weeks, then it will be pushed down the road some more.

 

These guidelines for the E.U. are specifically for them. They actually have somewhere they can go. Right now that doesn't include the U.S.. That first "prerequisite", monitoring situation worldwide, means they won't go anywhere that they feel will compromise either their passengers or crew. If the E.U. becomes the standard for the level of a "tolerable" virus spread within a nation, then the U.S. will have to make great strides to get there. I don't believe the cruise lines would be able to set lower standards for the U.S., specifically because they would be putting their crew ay risk. It also wouldn't look good.

 

What I keep wondering, there can't be that many people who will have insurance that will cover medical treatment if necessary for this illness while traveling. Even if you were to recover, the cost must be significant. I gather if it were necessary, at least a few weeks in hospital would be required, and then you would likely not be well enough to travel immediately.

 

I just can't imagine putting myself in a position like that far from home. We will just have to see what the future has in store for us. 

 

 

[clo]

4 minutes ago, Nic6318 said:

If the E.U. becomes the standard for the level of a "tolerable" virus spread within a nation, then the U.S. will have to make great strides to get there.

I agree.

 

Great post. Thank you. I like people who make me think.

[ldubs]

"Arrangements for the shoreside quarantine of any passenger or crew member who had close contact with an infected party who have tested negative"

 

Seems that this requirement is going to be real tough as it will likely involve a large number of people. And, it isn't just passengers.  A large number of the customer facing crew could be sent to shore.   Not saying it is bad.  Just that the impact could be pretty dramatic.  

 

Anyway, when I read the points, my first thought was that many of the CC posts that have speculated about what the future might look like were pretty close.   

[clarky213]

6 hours ago, Nic6318 said:

 

What I keep wondering, there can't be that many people who will have insurance that will cover medical treatment if necessary for this illness while traveling. Even if you were to recover, the cost must be significant. I gather if it were necessary, at least a few weeks in hospital would be required, and then you would likely not be well enough to travel immediately.

 

 

Here in the UK,  we can get Insurance that will cover Covid-19 medical bills abroad as long as it is not against goverment advice for travel. Currently, all foreign non-essential travel is banned, so you would not be covered. That may change in the next few days if they open up Air corridors to some low infection countries.

No Insurance will cover for cancellaion due to Covid-19.

 

As much as I love to travel, I am staying home this year and I am also trying to shift my LA cruise from April 2021 to 2022 as I just don't have the confidence this will be all over by April next year.

[chengkp75]

13 hours ago, clo said:

Well, good for them. Sincerely. Certainly more than we've gotten from the CDC.

Actually, the requirements look almost identical to those set forth by the CDC, with the massive exception that the EU is willing to take shoreside, with prior agreements and plans, both infected and quarantine passengers and crew, and are not requiring the "hospital, quarantine, and accommodation" ships to handle these people offshore that the CDC wants.

 

The other facet involved here is that the EU interim guidelines are in response to an EU "decision" on public safety and health, which is binding on member nations and private entities to which it applies, it still depends on each member nation for enforcement.  In other words, if the US federal government passed a law that was binding over all the states, but left it up to the states to enforce the law. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by chengkp75

[nosapphire]

The UK foreign office still advises against cruise travel for anyone over 70, or anyone with underlying health conditions, and I understand that the Canadian Gov has simply advised against cruise travel, so nobody in those groups will have any insurance anyway.

Since all the evidence points strongly towards the highest risks being large groups(of any age) being indoors together for more than 15 minutes, I can't see how cruises can go ahead for some time to come.

It is all very well talking about reduced occupancy, spacing, etc - but to avoid queues and crowds, that means timed meals, shows,bars,lounges. The "groups" will have to take into account the number of crew in attendance, not just passengers.

I forsee a lot of people having to wait in their cabin until their "group" time is called for whatever venue is next on their personal timetable.

Get on board and get handed your timetable. Get told which lift you can use, and when. Get to a port and by the time your group is called it is time to get back on board.

 

 

 

[njhorseman]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, the requirements look almost identical to those set forth by the CDC, with the massive exception that the EU is willing to take shoreside, with prior agreements and plans, both infected and quarantine passengers and crew, and are not requiring the "hospital, quarantine, and accommodation" ships to handle these people offshore that the CDC wants.

Not only are the CDC guidelines very similar to what the EU has published  with the very substantial exception you noted, the CDC guidelines have been in place since the No Sail Order was adopted on April 15. 

 

In the nearly three months that have elapsed since April 15, not one cruise line has produced an action plan that has been deemed acceptable by the CDC. Governments can set all the rules they want but complying with those rules is clearly a Herculean task.

[BlueRiband]

All of this sounds like it will cost a lot more money for a substantially pdiminished experience.  My cancelled 2020 Alaska cruise, booked in 2019, is almost 50% more for its 2021 equivalent.

[clo]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, the requirements look almost identical to those set forth by the CDC,

I must have missed that. Can you provide the link please? TIA

[clo]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

In the nearly three months that have elapsed since April 15, not one cruise line has produced an action plan that has been deemed acceptable by the CDC.

So do we the public know that cruise lines have present action plans that have been denied?

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, clo said:

I must have missed that. Can you provide the link please? TIA

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/15/2020-07930/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation-notice-of-modification-and-extension-and-other

 

For the beginning of the point by point list of requirements look a bit over half way down the page for this:

 

"Therefore, in accordance with sections 361 and 365 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 264, 268) and 42 CFR 70.2, 71.31(b), 71.32(b), for all cruise ships for the period described below, it is ordered:"

[evandbob]

Since so much is still being learned about this virus, it may make sense that a date is attached to any chart, graph or statistic.  What was once thought a trend can be altered by new data as more research is done as this virus mutates.  What was once a predominant factor a month ago may not be as relevant today.