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FCCs used by 12/31/21 what if no 2021 cruises


Wayfairers
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Has anyone considered what happens to our money that was held as FCC if the cruise ships are not allowed to sail in 2021?  Or, what happens if certain people are banned from cruise ships through 2021 due to pre-existing health issues?  You would hope they would extend the “must use by” date in these cases, but I haven’t seen anything that says they will do that or that they are even required to either extend our timeframe or return our money.  IMHO the cruise industry should have the decency of extending our deadline to use these FCCs for at least the length of the no sail order placed by government agencies and any no sail order placed by the cruise line such as those being considered concerning pre existing conditions.

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4 minutes ago, Wayfairers said:

Has anyone considered what happens to our money that was held as FCC if the cruise ships are not allowed to sail in 2021?  Or, what happens if certain people are banned from cruise ships through 2021 due to pre-existing health issues?  You would hope they would extend the “must use by” date in these cases, but I haven’t seen anything that says they will do that or that they are even required to either extend our timeframe or return our money.  IMHO the cruise industry should have the decency of extending our deadline to use these FCCs for at least the length of the no sail order placed by government agencies and any no sail order placed by the cruise line such as those being considered concerning pre existing conditions.

That really depends on which cruise line.

 

We are using two (Covid-19) FCCs (with "book by/cruise by" deadlines) for a November 2020 Oceania cruise which we fully expect they will need to cancel. We have been assured by Oceania that, in that case, our FCCs will be redeposited to our profile record and issued new "book by/cruise by" deadlines.

In addition, we would receive our choice of a refund of the balance paid on the November cruise or an additional FCC (note that the new total of three FCCs may be combined into a single FCC). Based on current Oceania policies, I expect that the new "book by/cruise by" deadlines would be "book by" one year from the cancellation date for a "cruise by" two years from the cancellation date. 

This works for us and we trust that Oceania, which handled our two Covid modified/cancelled cruise efficaciously, will continue to do the right thing.

 

In the unlikely event that highly restrictive health requirements imposed in the future (BTW, an industrial suicide action by cruise lines or government regulators) would prevent us from cruising, we expect that Oceania would make some effort at a reasonable refund in line with their existing T&Cs regarding health related boarding denials.

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Perhaps a bigger question is what if a cruise line goes bankrupt.  If no cruises in 2021 it is unlikely that any of the major cruise lines would survive under their current structure.  None of them have the resources to get through 2021 without income.  Norwegian Holdings (who owns Oceania and NCL) might be the most vulnerable.  So what good is a FCC under those circumstances?  If a cruise line owes you money you can make a chargeback claim with major credit cards.  But if you have FCCs I believe you would be out of luck.  That is why some of us (and also some consumer advocates) have recommended that folks try to get cash refunds rather then vouchers (which is essentially the same as a FCC in the cruise industry).

 

Hank

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30 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

That is why some of us (and also some consumer advocates) have recommended that folks try to get cash refunds rather then vouchers (which is essentially the same as a FCC in the cruise industry).

I'm doing that with Hurtigruten and it appears that it may be happening. Got an email that they're processing my refund request. We'll see. 'Course they're small.

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With Viking we had the option of 100% cash refund or 125% FCV. FCV's good for 2-years and if not used by then, they will issue a cash refund of the original amount.

 

We have 1 FCV and received a refund for the unused portion of our last cruise.

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I believe that FCC's are a mugs game.   Today the cruise line may tell you that the FCC may be be redeemed for cash in two years but all bets are off if on day 562 the issuer descends into bankruptcy.    Unsecured creditors will be lucky to get a copy of the prior years cruise catalogue let alone a five cents on the dollar.

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The cruise line that issued the FCC going bankrupt is a definite concern.   And so is the cruise line not extending the deadline.    We all fall under the unsecured creditors category iancal references.  
 

I would have picked refund over FCC. But I wasn’t offered that option. 

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We opted for the refund over FCV for the unused cruise days for a couple of reasons - as noted previously the potential of bankruptcy and also that the vouchers must be used on a single cruise and unused amounts are lost upon board.

 

Our FCV is a compensation for missing some ports, so we are not actually out any money. If we can use it next year great, but if the cruise line goes under we would most likely not be considered a creditor, as it has no monetary value. 

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If there are no cruises in 2021, all FCCs will be lost. The cruise line will file bankruptcy. They will have no choice. If they do not start to make revenue starting Jan 1, 2021, you will see RCL, CCL, and NCL start paperwork for protection. They will have no choice.

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On 7/8/2020 at 6:43 AM, Joebucks said:

Most companies are going to extend the date of such offers that can't be used within the timeline given.

 

If they don't cruise all of next year, they will have bigger problems than FCCs.

We can hope they will extend, but no guarantee they will.  It would be nice if they would publish a guarantee that if a customer cannot use FCC due to covid (either cancelled cruises or the customer is not allowed to sail due to health requirements set by the cruise line)  then the FCC will be extended until the customer is able to reasonably use their prepaid money.  Or just refund it.   And they may issue a similar statement later this year...I hope. 
 

I agree that if they cannot cruise in 2021 several will file bankruptcy and we will all lose our money.   Wouldn’t surprise me if some filed anyway to reduce debts.  Companies have been known to do that.   I’m sure they are holding a lot of FCC money, plus Increasing their debt daily with little to no income.  That isn’t sustainable and who knows where the breaking point is for each company. 

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I don't think any mass line cruise company can survive all of 2021 if their ships can't sail during that year.  They may extend the FCC to 12/31/2022 and then declare bankruptcy well before that date, say June 2021.  The CEO's of all the cruise lines probably have their individual golden parachutes in place, and they will take care of themselves before customers and shareholders.

 

First NCL, then expect RCCL & CCL to follow if no 2021 sailings.  I am getting more & more pessimistic as we continue to lead the world's countries in # of cases and virus caused deaths.

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16 minutes ago, evandbob said:

 I am getting more & more pessimistic as we continue to lead the world's countries in # of cases and virus caused deaths.

A single, complete 6 month shutdown, along with a single accompanying 6 month unemployment bailout for ALL salaried or self-employed individuals would ultimately cost less in time/energy/money than is the case with the current piecemeal approach (e.g., restaurants closed yesterday, reopened today, ordered to close again tomorrow, etc).

 

Yesterday, I watched the umpteenth Covid-19 update from our well-meaning and usually on-the-ball California governor (Gavin Newsom). The data driven presentations currently paint a bleak picture (repeating the downturn of earlier this year) but end up serving little usefulness since he ends up preaching to a choir of folks who are already wearing masks/socially distancing and are free at noon to watch his show.

 

Sadly the folks who are not behaving well in all this will only respond to significant, punitive enforcement (including fines, business license suspension, etc.) and giving this corrective/restrictive approach a 100% effort (while providing unemployment relief for six months) will clearly evidence its efficacy. Note too that keeping non-essential workers at home for the next six months will also benefit an essential fall semester distance learning mandate for K-8 schools by bettering parental involvement in their children's learning efforts. 

 

At the end of six months, we'd hopefully have a vaccine or, at least, an effective array of treatment protocols. We'd have had time to bring Covid testing up to speed and non-essential work could restart. 

 

The alternative (current) approach has already been found to severely impact the long term health of most folks who gets Covid-19 while killing others. 

 

BTW, I expect that the cruise industry will emerge from Covid much leaner (less companies/megaships) with premium/luxury lines surviving if only because of their size (fleets and ships) and the nature of their passenger base which includes many who will have withstood the financial impact of the Covid era and for whom travel is an essential component of their lifestyle.

 

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19 minutes ago, evandbob said:

Isn't our health more important than our wealth?  I think that's what dear old Mom & Dad used to tell me.  If we don't have our health, we have nothing they'd say.

 

Yes.  And, peace of mind is more important than health or wealth.   👍

 

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8 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

A single, complete 6 month shutdown, along with a single accompanying 6 month unemployment bailout for ALL salaried or self-employed individuals would ultimately cost less in time/energy/money than is the case with the current piecemeal approach (e.g., restaurants closed yesterday, reopened today, ordered to close again tomorrow, etc).

 

 

 

I'm a little confused by your restnt example.  Our restaurants are still open for outside seating.  Inside seating was postponed, meaning it never happened.  Of course you may be talking about a different county or jurisdiction.  

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37 minutes ago, evandbob said:

Isn't our health more important than our wealth?  I think that's what dear old Mom & Dad used to tell me.  If we don't have our health, we have nothing they'd say.

It would depend on which stage of life you are at. Every age group has a different want or wish list.

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29 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I'm a little confused by your restnt example.  Our restaurants are still open for outside seating.  Inside seating was postponed, meaning it never happened.  Of course you may be talking about a different county or jurisdiction.  

SF has rescinded indoor reopening plans. Napa has reclosed indoor dining soon after reopening it.....

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3 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

SF has rescinded indoor reopening plans. Napa has reclosed indoor dining soon after reopening it.....

 

Aw, thanks.   I was thinking of CoCoCo, obviously.   I'm actually glad our county was able to delay phase 3 before the inside dining actually happened.  What a mess and incredible frustration if restaurants opened inside seating then had to shut them down.  

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On 7/9/2020 at 11:16 AM, evandbob said:

I am getting more & more pessimistic as we continue to lead the world's countries in # of cases and virus caused deaths.

 

We do NOT lead the world based on cases or deaths per 1 million population.

 

We are 12th in number of cases and 8th in the number of deaths.

 

And realize, with the elderly more likely to die, we have a much larger elderly population that most countries.

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1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

We do NOT lead the world based on cases or deaths per 1 million population.

 

We are 12th in number of cases and 8th in the number of deaths.

 

And realize, with the elderly more likely to die, we have a much larger elderly population that most countries.

 

12th in cases per million but places 1 to 11 are held by much smaller countries where a small number of cases skews their position. Chile is the next largest with 18 million people.

 

8th in deaths per million but climbing as most other countries are not showing as fast a growth rate in the number of dead relative to their populations.  Yesterday the U.S.A. had 465 deaths while the UK had 11.

 

 

  

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2 hours ago, SRF said:

 

We do NOT lead the world based on cases or deaths per 1 million population.

 

We are 12th in number of cases and 8th in the number of deaths.

 

And realize, with the elderly more likely to die, we have a much larger elderly population that most countries.

 

Might not currently be the leader per 1M population, since the beginning.

 

I suggest the more important metric is current trends. Most developed countries have flattened the curve, but the US numbers are unfortunately increasing.

 

When I searched for highest percentage of elderly (>65) the US at 16% didn't even make the top the list of the top 25.

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